All B/R update speculation.

[DragoFireheart]

The unintentional irony of making this complant in LEGACY - the format for those who love still playing with Dark Ritual and Red Elemental Blast and Sylvan Library - is difficult to overstate.

Those are ok because they are not blue.

Edit:

You know what would be really hilarious? With Cavern of Souls being released, I wonder what drama would happen if WotC unbanned Goblin Recruiter...

[(nameless one)]

Those are ok because they are not blue.

Edit:

You know what would be really hilarious? With Cavern of Souls being released, I wonder what drama would happen if WotC unbanned Goblin Recruiter...

I hope they do it. This and Mental Misstep. Keep the format balanced!

[Rizso]

Imo the brainstorm and miracle is quite overrated tbh. A 2 card combo to take an other turn imo isnt that overpowered. However personal tutor for the red wheel miracle might be really strong for a some storm decks. We will see.

[kusumoto]

Reforge the Soul is just going to be a better Diminishing Returns for TES.

That's all it's going to do to TES. It's better than Diminishing Returns. They both give the opponent a new hand but...

Reforge the Soul doesn't exile any of your library and doesn't cause anyone to shuffle libraries. That sounds like an upgrade to me. It's one more mana, but it's more on color. I don't think TES generally cares about the miracle.

If anything is going to be scary broken with this card, it's going to be a new deck.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

- You're coming off as not wanting to believe otherwise despite what you claim. Just sayin.




- Like I said, your mind is made up. Discussing it further won't convince you. Seriously, look at MY other posts. I've posted plenty of arguments, but you claimed to have "tested it". You've made up your mind: arguing further is a waste of both of our time.

Look at Vacrix and a couple other people. They're all convinced of their own positions, but I guarantee you none of them will budge until tournament results show up. People are hilariously (more) stubborn on the Internet.

Agree to disagree because that's all we are going to agree on.

You are the one who clearly has made up their mind. I have tested this card myself and was really not overly impressed with what it did. You have no decklist to back up what you are saying, no results, no hard data. What you do have is a bunch of hypotheticals and your word that this card is broken. Maybe you should go read what Gerry T wrote in his article about the card, or how about what Owen Turtenwald said in his article this week. (spoiler alert: they say it's bad) If you want to actually want to change peoples opinion you are going to need something better then "because I say so."

[DragoFireheart]

You are the one who clearly has made up their mind. I have tested this card myself and was really not overly impressed with what it did. You have no decklist to back up what you are saying, no results, no hard data. What you do have is a bunch of hypotheticals and your word that this card is broken. Maybe you should go read what Gerry T wrote in his article about the card, or how about what Owen Turtenwald said in his article this week. (spoiler alert: they say it's bad) If you want to actually want to change peoples opinion you are going to need something better then "because I say so."

The irony is overwhelming.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

The irony is overwhelming.

LOL. Are you stupid. I have tested this card and posted about it, others have tested this card and posted similar results. Unless you have some different data this is all we have to work with.

[DragoFireheart]

LOL. Are you stupid. I have tested this card and posted about it, others have tested this card and posted similar results. Unless you have some different data this is all we have to work with.

Resorting to personal insults. Your ability to create convincing arguments is astronomically amazing!

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Resorting to personal insults. Your ability to create convincing arguments is astronomically amazing!

You still have nothing to support your argument.

[Asthereal]

How about this then, does anyone actually have a list where Temporal Mastery is broken that they aren't sharing because they plan to win an event with it?

I have one ready. Pretty sweet stuff. Not sure whether I will get the cards for it though. Getting playsets of Personal Tutor and Temporal Mastery seems like quite an investment for something I'm not completely sure of...

[DragoFireheart]

You still have nothing to support your argument.

And neither do you.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

And neither do you.

I have testing results, so do other people.

[DragoFireheart]

I have testing results, so do other people.

No you don't. If you had them, you would have shown them already.

Edit: Either post your results or quit lying.

[Zilla]

Drago, you seem extremely sure of your position in this matter. Is there some reason you haven't bothered to test it yourself?

[TooCloseToTheSun]

No you don't. If you had them, you would have shown them already.

I posted it in the other thread, dontbiteitholmes has tested it, Jamaican Zombie Legend has tested it.


EDIT:
One Round of testing 3 games v.s. Junk:
Game 1 - I have a Jace in hand and I TM on my draw step and do some other stuff, go to my next turn. My opp misplays and puts in batterskull on the end of my first turn.
Second Turn, I play Jace and bounce his BSkull token and beat down with a 3/4 Goyf. I would not have one without his misplay.

Game 2 - This game was a blow out. I just tempoed way ahead and killed him quickly. Pitched TM to force a removal spell.

Game 3 - I took 3 extra turns, lost horribly. The first extra turn I took I setup with ponder and passed then my opp killed all my creatures. I was stuck exploring rather than having to hold a second TM in my hand with no Brianstorm. The other two were irrelevant just trying to buy time before I lost to Thrun.

Notes: Card is awful in your opening hand, even with Brainstorm. Being able to shuffle away two cards with Brainstorm is one of the reasons decks play it, when the extra card you get off of TM is one you didn't want it kind of negates the positives.

[DragoFireheart]

Drago, you seem extremely sure of your position in this matter.

- I am. Of course I could be wrong and I'm not so arrogant to pretend that I couldn't be. However, I'm also not going to pretend that I have hours of "testing" results and then proceed to troll people by not posting those results.

Is there some reason you haven't bothered to test it yourself?

- There's no real way to know how good it will be in an actual tournament setting. The keyword in this topic is speculation. I'm clearly speculating. Everyone else is (unless they are trolling with "test" results, which are dubious at best).

However, the fact that TM is very similar to TW, even with it's (minor) hoops, is enough evidence to not let it be legal. I think there is nothing wrong, at the very least, being wary of cards that are variations of Legacy banned cards. I've provided my reason throughout various topics.

[DragoFireheart]

I posted it in the other thread, dontbiteitholmes has tested it, Jamaican Zombie Legend has tested it.

Link to your post please. I'm genuinely interested.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Link to your post please. I'm genuinely interested.

I edited my other post to include it. That was just one of many I don't really think typing up the rest of my notes is worth it all the other rounds were quite similar.

[DragoFireheart]

I edited my other post to include it. That was just one of many I don't really think typing up the rest of my notes is worth it all the other rounds were quite similar.

So three games with Junk is your idea of testing?

I think testing a card in only three games against a single deck is a pretty awful way to determine if ANY card is good/bad/bannable.

[Lord Seth]

However, the fact that TM is very similar to TW, even with it's (minor) hoops, is enough evidence to not let it be legal.

Just like how Ancestral Vision, Lotus Bloom, Mox Opal, Wheel of Fate, and Infernal Tutor were all so broken they should have been banned preemptively too, right?

I think there is nothing wrong, at the very least, being wary of cards that are variations of Legacy banned cards. I've provided my reason throughout various topics.

From what I've seen, so far all you've said is that it's kind of like Time Walk, which is not by itself a decent argument to take a step that's been done with only two cards in the history of Magic.