View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #21201
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    The only upside to jar I see over PiF is graveyard independence. Otherwise it's probably good and there's probably a build there but I'm not an expert on the deck.
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    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  2. #21202
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Not true. Academy hit the B/R list before Jar was printed.
    Humh. Which card did I mess it us with then? Thanks.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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  3. #21203
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    The real test is whether Jar would break TES/ANT in 2019. Ad Nauseam doesn't want 5cmc cards, so you wouldn't see both. Jar would have to be busted enough to replace Ad Nauseam. Is that true? I don't know. On the plus side you could jam 4 copies and never worry about life total. On the down side, you feed opponent FoWs. You could rejig the deck to run Silence instead of discard (and board into Xantid Swarm). Is that so much better than current ANT that it breaks Legacy? Where's Bryant Cook at?
    Ad Nauseam is easier to access thanks to Wishes, draws more cards and doesnt refill your opponents hand in a blue field.

    The strategy of Draw7s isnt really successful in Legacy due to the lack of SoLoMoxen and lacking speed of the Draw7s unlike in old Vintage Long.dec variants which popped Draw7 turn 1 easily.

    I dont think that Jar would add anything worthwhile to Legacy storm, otherwise Diminishing Returns would already see more play.
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  4. #21204

    All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Ad Nauseam is easier to access thanks to Wishes, draws more cards and doesnt refill your opponents hand in a blue field.

    The strategy of Draw7s isnt really successful in Legacy due to the lack of SoLoMoxen and lacking speed of the Draw7s unlike in old Vintage Long.dec variants which popped Draw7 turn 1 easily.

    I dont think that Jar would add anything worthwhile to Legacy storm, otherwise Diminishing Returns would already see more play.
    Ad Nauseam can not be wished for but in TES it usually one-sidedly draws 15 cards where the life loss doesnt matter as the game usually ends that turn. I dont think jar will replace ad nauseam in that deck.

    It might be interesting in AnT where Ad Nauseam isnt nearly as good. Opponents draw could be thwarted with sience/swarm effects which have upside over discard versus flusterstorm,snapcaster and azcanta anyway.

    I don’t mind boosting stax or welder decks at all. I am very happy with this new discussion after pages and pages of brainstorm and fetchland bashing.

  5. #21205
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Maybe the poll should be re-opened and changed into:

    Which card should be taken off the ban list?


  6. #21206
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Jar is a busted card that probably doesn't need to be unbanned.

    But Griselbrand is just as busted in every way and should be banned if Jar is the standard.
    This is an honest statement. After seeing the scenarios with Jar I can see it's potency now, but are those any worse than Dark Ritual > Entomb > Exhume > draw 7 and win? If Legacy is the only 4 Brainstorm format than it should be the only 4 Memory Jar format too!

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  7. #21207

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jolssoni View Post
    I too want what few Legacy GPs and Opens remain to go additional 10 minutes to time every round.
    Never been to a legacy GP, but... Are there *any* rounds that don't have at least one game go to time already? If "yes" than whats the big deal about a few more? If "no" then, I don't believe you.

  8. #21208

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bithlord View Post
    Never been to a legacy GP, but... Are there *any* rounds that don't have at least one game go to time already? If "yes" than whats the big deal about a few more? If "no" then, I don't believe you.
    Exactly.

  9. #21209
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Intentional slowplay and unskilled players are the only reasons rounds ever go to time. Slow players will always play slow regardless of what deck they use.

    Cast Brainstorm. Draw three cards. Think for a minute. Put two cards back while thinking. Change their mind, pick up the two cards off the top of the deck, put another two back. Crack fetch, shuffle for 30 seconds. Cast ponder. Put hand down. Pick up three cards off the top of the deck. Put down the three cards. Pick up hand. Pick up the three cards in other hand, look at all of them together. Think. Choose to shuffle.

    That scenario probably happens in the majority of all legacy games and is the primary reason rounds take forever. Not really sure how this was Top's fault when counterbalance was the only thing incentivizing Miracles players to constantly spin top and contribute nothing to the board state.


    Thanks Wizards, you made the right choice and really understand the format.
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    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
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  10. #21210

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Intentional slowplay and unskilled players are the only reasons rounds ever go to time. Slow players will always play slow regardless of what deck they use.

    Cast Brainstorm. Draw three cards. Think for a minute. Put two cards back while thinking. Change their mind, pick up the two cards off the top of the deck, put another two back. Crack fetch, shuffle for 30 seconds. Cast ponder. Put hand down. Pick up three cards off the top of the deck. Put down the three cards. Pick up hand. Pick up the three cards in other hand, look at all of them together. Think. Choose to shuffle.

    That scenario probably happens in the majority of all legacy games and is the primary reason rounds take forever. Not really sure how this was Top's fault when counterbalance was the only thing incentivizing Miracles players to constantly spin top and contribute nothing to the board state.


    Thanks Wizards, you made the right choice and really understand the format.
    Thank you for putting into words the sentiments of which I have tried to iterate previously, they kept coming out as screams of rage instead of something intelligent like your post. I so wish CB had died that day instead.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  11. #21211
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Cast Brainstorm. Draw three cards. Think for a minute.
    I think the correct order for stallers is: Put Brainstorm on the table, think about which land to tap, ask for it to resolve, draw 1, tank, draw 1, tank, draw 1 tank, rearange cards in hand two times, put hand down to browse through the graveyard, pick up hand again, rearange cards, put one card on the table face down, rearange, look at the card on the table, select a second card to put on the table face down, put down hand and pickup the two card to flip them around at least 3 times to decide the order to put them back, put back the cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Put two cards back while thinking. Change their mind, pick up the two cards off the top of the deck, put another two back.
    I like that cuz i would get the player DQ'd for drawing extra cards that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  12. #21212

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post

    I like that cuz i would get the player DQ'd for drawing extra cards that way.
    Drawing extra cards isn't a DQ.

  13. #21213
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Drawing extra cards isn't a DQ.
    Like 2 EW ago in Philly I'm pretty sure someone got DQ'd for effectively drawing a bonus card when they put the wrong number back with Bstorm [or some scenario like that]. Not sure if they had other warnings though

  14. #21214

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    It is not a DQ, at worst it get fixed by "casting" enough your opponent looks at your hand and shuffles a card he wants back into your library to get back to the original amount of cards in hand.
    Also, if you cast brainstorm, and while it resolves you put the two cards back on top of your library and then quickly take them back you get a warning at worst
    "You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"

  15. #21215
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    Also, if you cast brainstorm, and while it resolves you put the two cards back on top of your library and then quickly take them back you get a warning at worst
    In case of Alex B. that's 4+3 cards drawn and 2 put back i guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  16. #21216

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    In case of Alex B. that's 4+3 cards drawn and 2 put back i guess.
    To be fair, in the case of Alex B I'd DQ him anyways and shrug when getting told it's just a warning
    Last edited by FourDogsinaHorseSuit; 01-20-2019 at 10:23 AM.

  17. #21217
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Oh Alex, the one banning this thread can agree on.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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  18. #21218
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Oh Alex, the one banning this thread can agree on.
    /thread

    No?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  19. #21219
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Krark-Clan Ironworks is banned in Modern.

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...d-announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by WotC
    Nearly one year since the last change to the Modern banned list, R&D has continued to monitor the evolution and health of the format. During this time period, Krark-Clan Ironworks decks have risen to prominence at the Grand Prix level of play, posting more individual-play Modern Grand Prix Top 8 finishes than any other archetype, despite being only a modest portion of the field. In fact, only one other archetype, White-Blue Control, has posted more than half as many Top 8 finishes as Ironworks in those events. With no signs of the Ironworks deck's dominance at the GP level slowing down, we've decided to take action by banning the card Krark-Clan Ironworks.

  20. #21220
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.


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