View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

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192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #21661
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Anything with low cc and strong synergy with fetchlands is liable to find its way into the xerox shell. People have been playing 3 and 4 color U-shell stuff forever, it's a little silly to expect an RG in the casting cost to be a big hurdle.
    The fact that you can cast it off a Tropical Island and Volcanic Island, and aren't radically punished meant it has zero hope of avoiding the blue decks.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  2. #21662

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    So Gaak axed, and Karn Karntrolled?
    Standard: Rampaging Ferocidon unbanned
    Modern
    Hogaak, banned
    Faithless looting Banned
    Stoneforge - UNBANNED

    Vintage
    new karn - restricted
    Mystic Forge restricted
    Mental misstep restricted
    GGT restricted
    Fastbong is UN-restricted. Effective 8/30, magic online effective noon today, PT, arena effective 9/4.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  3. #21663
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Guys, Modern is getting stone forge!
    Now they too can make a worse UW deck, losing access to wraths.

  4. #21664
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Magic card market doesn't work anymore when i try to access stoneforge mystic's page :)
    So people seriously think this is a hot new tech that will win tournaments, caw blade style?

  5. #21665
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by simdude View Post
    Big shakeups in Modern and Vintage and as usual radio silence with legacy. Vintage receives far more attention as a format which is honestly mind-boggling.

    >War of the Spark, Modern Horizons, and Core Set 2020 have been among the most impactful sets for Vintage in years.

    Could easily apply to Legacy as well but they seem to forget the format exists.
    I feel just the opposite is actually the fact of the matter. Legacy is in a relatively "good" place, people are playing it and there aren't any "obvious" actions that need to be taken.

    People's individual subjected feelings though? Everyone's got a boatload of those.

    Vintage was in a place where almost everyone who did play it Online was just not any more. They had to do something. Legacy is fine and in a fine place.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  6. #21666

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I'm baffled that Looting was banned. I don't follow Modern, but in what kind of format is a card as innocuous as Looting worthy of a ban? Is Modern even a real format?

  7. #21667
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Magic card market doesn't work anymore when i try to access stoneforge mystic's page :)
    So people seriously think this is a hot new tech that will win tournaments, caw blade style?
    Not really. I mean, I'm sure some people want them to play with them, but likely most of the people jumping on them right now are out the make some "fast-cash" on the spec.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  8. #21668
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    I'm baffled that Looting was banned. I don't follow Modern, but in what kind of format is a card as innocuous as Looting worthy of a ban? Is Modern even a real format?
    Modern derives most of its value from GY synergy, and itís an incredibly linear format. When you have no risk of meaningful interaction (FoW/Wasteland/Daze), Looting becomes an easy and safe pseudo-ramp/mana enabler. Honestly with this banned, they could have probably left Hogaak alone.

    Recognizing cards as secretly being mana engines explains this ban. Itís a good ban, and next on the chopping block is going to be Mox Opal (maybe this card already is banned; donít really keep up with modern other than itís ability to screw up card prices).

  9. #21669
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    I'm baffled that Looting was banned. I don't follow Modern, but in what kind of format is a card as innocuous as Looting worthy of a ban? Is Modern even a real format?
    Looting was stupid in Modern. It was a good, long overdue ban.

    I'm more baffled by the SFM unban - not because it's too strong (it's more than fine), but because WotC thinks it's still a dangerous card that might need revaluation later on like Golgari-Grave Troll.
    Currently working on: Infinity Stompy

  10. #21670

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Looting was stupid in Modern. It was a good, long overdue ban.

    I'm more baffled by the SFM unban - not because it's too strong (it's more than fine), but because WotC thinks it's still a dangerous card that might need revaluation later on like Golgari-Grave Troll.
    I'm amazed that Ancient Stirrings didn't get hit. That card has never been in anything resembling a "fair" deck, its the single best cantrip in Modern, bar none now. That plus the London Mulligan and new Karn means Tron almost always "wins" on turn 3. Maybe Force of Negation is enough to stop it now that everyone doesn't have to spend so many slots on the graveyard, but I kinda doubt it.

    SFM is fine, it'll be nice to see creature decks using equipment again. Wish they'd ban Griselbrand and Emrakul, it would be nice to see some fatties that don't immediately end the game see play. Especially Brand, but that'll probably never happen.

  11. #21671
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Looting was stupid in Modern. It was a good, long overdue ban.

    I'm more baffled by the SFM unban - not because it's too strong (it's more than fine), but because WotC thinks it's still a dangerous card that might need revaluation later on like Golgari-Grave Troll.
    True about Stoneforge the card in standard was pretty busted, but I feel like good answers just didn't exist. Also the deck had Jace, ponder, leak, preordain, and spell pierce. Was pretty nuts
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  12. #21672
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Way more than that.

    Fucking called it, hogaak ban and sfm unban for moden, no changes to legacy.

    Looting ban is slightly surprising. This really nerfs a couple strong decks: red/izzet phoenix and traditional dredge. It also hamstrings value-based looting decks like mardu pyromancer and death's shadow variants. I'm not a fan of banning looting, honestly. I feel like Hogaak was enough. *shrug*

    Stoneforge up y'all!
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  13. #21673
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Was Hogaak popular in Modern? Like I understand a lot of people played him, but was that because it was clearly the best deck, or did people like playing that deck?

    I ask because I recall a few times in the past when meaty bans rolled through Modern, there would be a good chunk of players affected that pick up and move to Legacy. I can imagine those that still have the kit for the old Hogaak/Bridge from Below/Altar of Dementia just say fuck it and grab Cabal Therapy and whatever else they're now open to playing. Then for a few months the local meta gets really weird with new faces seeing complex interactions for the first time and a bunch of budget stuff while they either buy up or decide maybe the format isn't for them.

    Based on a lot of talk, it seemed like people hated to play against him but also kind of hated to play with him as well, so maybe everybody just rejoices and nothing changes? Last one I remember was a bunch of new players all coming after Splinter Twin got banned. But Splinter Twin seemed to have a more equal representation on either side, there were lots of For/Against discussions. So either the pro-Hogaak crowd is shamed into silence, or they just don't exist, in which case the ban won't really change the format population.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  14. #21674
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Was Hogaak popular in Modern? Like I understand a lot of people played him, but was that because it was clearly the best deck, or did people like playing that deck?
    I mean, I guess somewhere there are people who like playing Hogaak in Modern. Then again, there are people who like...well, lets just leave it at that.

    Not that I am actively hunting it, but I have yet to come across any comment from anyone disagreeing with the Hogaak ban. I've seen a few people quibble with the Looting ban, but really no outright complaints. I don't think you will see any "mass exodus" on the back of this. There might be some disgruntled Phoenix players, but I doubt there are really all that many that didn't entertain the possibility this might happen.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  15. #21675
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I don't think I knew anyone that thought Hogaak shouldn't have been banned. I think the people that played it were just like, yeah this deck is dumb as shit but I'll play it and win while it's legal
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  16. #21676

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Since 2011:

    Modern- 24 bannings
    Vintage- 12 restrictions
    Legacy- 6 bannings

  17. #21677

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Was Hogaak popular in Modern? Like I understand a lot of people played him, but was that because it was clearly the best deck, or did people like playing that deck?

    I ask because I recall a few times in the past when meaty bans rolled through Modern, there would be a good chunk of players affected that pick up and move to Legacy. I can imagine those that still have the kit for the old Hogaak/Bridge from Below/Altar of Dementia just say fuck it and grab Cabal Therapy and whatever else they're now open to playing. Then for a few months the local meta gets really weird with new faces seeing complex interactions for the first time and a bunch of budget stuff while they either buy up or decide maybe the format isn't for them.

    Based on a lot of talk, it seemed like people hated to play against him but also kind of hated to play with him as well, so maybe everybody just rejoices and nothing changes? Last one I remember was a bunch of new players all coming after Splinter Twin got banned. But Splinter Twin seemed to have a more equal representation on either side, there were lots of For/Against discussions. So either the pro-Hogaak crowd is shamed into silence, or they just don't exist, in which case the ban won't really change the format population.
    I heard a lot of people were grumbling about having to play hogaak, and Hogaak was only at three or so bucks so I doubt there's a lot of Gaak Stans hanging around.

  18. #21678
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Was Hogaak popular in Modern? Like I understand a lot of people played him, but was that because it was clearly the best deck, or did people like playing that deck?
    Yeah, it was. At the GP this weekend it was 13% of day 1 decks (the next closest being 8% mono-red, the deck most likely to beat it), which progressed into 22% of the day 2 decks, and then 5/8 of the top 8 and 3/4 of the top 4 decks. The deck was far and away the most broken deck Modern has ever seen, by at least any statistical metric you want to use. It warped the metagame around it so hard that Leyline of the Void was the most played card in the format, and even then it could pretty easily win through it with 4x Assassin's Trophy and 4x Force of Vigor post-board.

    The biggest problem was that the only card that could effectively cast it from being played quickly enough was Leyline, and even cards like Path to Exile weren't always effective since they had Carrion Feeder to dodge it. I haven't seen a single person who was outraged by that ban, which is extremely rare for the internet. Everyone saw it coming.

    Faithless Looting reactions also seem to be surprisingly tame. It takes a lot of fun fringe decks out of contention, which sucks a lot, but it's kind of similar to how Sensei's Divining Top got hit in Legacy. Rock decks were playing it as a 2-of, and so were some other non-blue decks that wanted the card selection, but they weren't the ones abusing it. People seem generally pretty happy about these.

    And people are very happy about Stoneforge Mystic. I wonder if the community outcry before the ban list update pushed WotC into unbanning it, since there was so many calls to unban it.

  19. #21679
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    So I was looking up metagame cards on tcdecks last week. I don't play Modern but I decided to check out what their metagame looked like. Leyline of the Void was the #1 played card by a wide margin. The rest of the Top 10 were basically the Hogaak deck (Hogaak, Faithless Looting, Bloodghast). I am, therefor, not at all surprised by the bannings. It looked like the format was pretty fucked.

  20. #21680
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    StoneForge Mistyc in Modern, it is not only Caw Blade.
    She opens some options for D&T, Dead Guy Ale, Maverick or WBG. It is a fresh wind to the format especially after the Hoggaak Era.

    I really expected anything in legacy, maybe next time.

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