View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #22381

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    It'll probably get banned as quickly as Breach did, and for the same reason: People still don't seem to understand that you can use sideboard cards.

    And Gigan was one of my favorite Godzilla monsters. Damned shame.
    Cthulu forbid Clone effects see tournament play. Deck is crazy.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  2. #22382
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    It'll probably get banned as quickly as Breach did, and for the same reason: People still don't seem to understand that you can use sideboard cards.
    You can also hate both out with cheese.

    How does Grixis answer 4x Leyline of the Void maindeck, combined with knowing their companion before you keep your hand?

    You don't even? I only even.

  3. #22383

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    You can also hate both out with cheese.

    How does Grixis answer 4x Leyline of the Void maindeck, combined with knowing their companion before you keep your hand?

    You don't even? I only even.
    Gyruda actually doesn't care about Leyline or RIP, it just summons clones from exile. It cares only about cards milled, not where they are.

  4. #22384
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zbynda View Post
    Gyruda actually doesn't care about Leyline or RIP, it just summons clones from exile. It cares only about cards milled, not where they are.
    Yeah of course, I was talking about beating Lurrus.

    Gyruda can play 4x Leyline though. ("I only even")

    Edit: Hmm I thought Deuce was talking about a Lurrus ban, but he replied to a Gyruda comment. I'd be shocked if Gyruda was the first banned. Sure it can win on turn 1, but so can Fox and Oops and Belcher and Echo/Song. Glass cannon builds can be hated out. Lurrus and Zirda seem more powerful overall.

  5. #22385

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post

    How does Grixis answer 4x Leyline of the Void maindeck, combined with knowing their companion before you keep your hand?
    If it's game 2 you can use sb'ed B-Borrowers to bounce it. Leylines are a risk with the popularity of Borrower, in my opinion.

    Edit: who plays Leyline main?
    Last edited by Secretly.A.Bee; 04-25-2020 at 06:29 PM.

  6. #22386
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    If it's game 2 you can use sb'ed B-Borrowers to bounce it. Leylines are a risk with the popularity of Borrower, in my opinion.

    Edit: who plays Leyline main?
    Someone who really wants to beat graveyard nonsence. That's his point, several viable hate pieces exist, but if people don't want to see them game one than that's their choice.

  7. #22387
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    See above point about rewards for being willing to run all the hate:

    Lurrus and Taxes - Legacy Challenge 1st place
    https://twitter.com/WhiteFacesmtg/st...63809654243328

    8 ways to kill Karakas
    7 1cmc "exile target Lolrus"
    3 Karakas
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    Drannith Magistrate

    Turn 1 Thalia/Leonin Arbiter to hate out all the fetchland+Brainstorm decks
    4x Revoker @ Bauble/Astrolabe/Oko

    The only thing certain in that meta is that you'll see Lurrus and they'll be paying taxes.
    Last edited by FTW; 04-27-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  8. #22388
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I am trying to nail down some lists for different decks, but this whole companion nonsense has thrown me for a loop. I'm in the camp where I don't want to invest in any companions in the event of bans. This is like War of the Spark all over again, where things shift so hard in one direction only to swing wildly to another one. I adjusted to Wrenn&6, then Underworld Breach, now Lurrus? JFC, sit still for a minute...
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #22389
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    i'd wait 6 months. much easier to do so given all the virus stuff.

    watching all of this stuff on modo, some brews look very fun, but at the same time it's clear that these 4/5 cards shouldn't be autoinclude.

    it's really disgusting to see the miracles decks just start to run 80 cards for this guy. worst part is that it's 100% worth it.
    -rob

  10. #22390
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    it's really disgusting to see the miracles decks just start to run 80 cards for this guy. worst part is that it's 100% worth it.
    I think Yorion is the least offensive of the Companions. Even though Miracles seems to be able to run it easily, running an 80 card deck is a not insignificant drawback! Lurrus, Zidra and Jeganatha barely require ANY modifications to the decks that they already are naturally slotted into. Gyruda is just a new combo deck that I am not sure is broken, but can't tell since it banned online.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  11. #22391
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    I think Yorion is the least offensive of the Companions. Even though Miracles seems to be able to run it easily, running an 80 card deck is a not insignificant drawback! Lurrus, Zidra and Jeganatha barely require ANY modifications to the decks that they already are naturally slotted into. Gyruda is just a new combo deck that I am not sure is broken, but can't tell since it banned online.
    Gyruda is legal again since the middle of last week or so.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  12. #22392

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I am trying to nail down some lists for different decks, but this whole companion nonsense has thrown me for a loop. I'm in the camp where I don't want to invest in any companions in the event of bans. This is like War of the Spark all over again, where things shift so hard in one direction only to swing wildly to another one. I adjusted to Wrenn&6, then Underworld Breach, now Lurrus? JFC, sit still for a minute...
    Online, this will be the new normal. I guess the best strategy is to pick a blue shell and enter the dance, then just keep changing cards accordingly to the new hotness.

  13. #22393
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...6#mm__st_place

    Legacy Challenge from yesterday:

    Companion count:
    Lurrus: 18 (including 2 storm decks that just use Lurrus for +2 storm and nothing else)
    Yorion: 2
    Gyruda: 2
    Zirda: 1
    Total: 23

    Non-Companion Decks:
    RUG Delver: 2
    Eldrazi Aggro: 5
    Red Prison: 1
    BR Reanimator: 1
    Total: 9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  14. #22394

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...6#mm__st_place

    Legacy Challenge from yesterday:

    Companion count:
    Lurrus: 18 (including 2 storm decks that just use Lurrus for +2 storm and nothing else)
    Yorion: 2
    Gyruda: 2
    Zirda: 1
    Total: 23

    Non-Companion Decks:
    RUG Delver: 2
    Eldrazi Aggro: 5
    Red Prison: 1
    BR Reanimator: 1
    Total: 9
    I don't see how Lurrus survives.

  15. #22395
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Challenge results from today:

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...ataru_st_place

    Companion count:

    Lurrus: 20
    Zirda: 2
    Yorion: 1
    Gyruda: 1
    Total: 24

    Non-companion decks:

    Stryfo Pile: 1
    UG Uro Lands: 1
    Elves: 1
    UR AK Delver: 1
    UG Titan Stompy: 1
    Death and Taxes: 1
    Eldrazi Aggro: 1
    UWR RIP Control: 1
    Total: 8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  16. #22396
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Edit: Ingenious Infiltratored by Cire!

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Gyruda is legal again since the middle of last week or so.
    Turbo Gyruda made 8th and 9th on Saturday's Legacy Challenge and only 27th on Sunday's Challenge. It's playable but far from broken.

    It's just another glass cannon combo. Lurrus Storm is a better combo deck.

    Speaking of Lurrus...
    BUG Lurrus Delver: 1st, 2nd, 24th on Sunday
    Jeskai Lurrus Delver: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 16th, 32nd on Saturday; 26th and 30th on Sunday
    Grixis Lurrus Delver: 11th, 21st, 23rd, 24th, 29th, 30th on Saturday; 3rd, 7th, 11th, 32nd on Sunday
    Lurrus and Taxes: 1st Saturday; 4th Sunday
    Lurrus ThopterBlade Miracles: 7th Saturday
    Lurrus TES: 10th Saturday
    Lurrus ANT: 12th, 15th, 29th, 31st Sunday
    Lurrus Steel Stompy: 16th Sunday

    Lurrus is 5/8 of both top 8s, but yes let's ban Gyruda.

  17. #22397
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Well, I mean, I think there is little doubt, Lurrus, as a companion, is stupid. Honestly, I had a moment of time and got a Lurrus on Arena in my free packs. So, I threw together a literal pile of mostly draft-reject Rakdos cards and it was instantly playable and really not bad. I think I went something like 5-1.

    My hope is that they just limit the companion mechanic to only Standard and EDH. Leave the cards themselves legal, because I don't think anything is wrong with them as cards in-themselves.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  18. #22398

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I hope they don't do anything for a couple of months, but I will probably be disappointed. Would be fun to see if anyone could break lurrus and create a dominant archetype. So far it's just being used in all archetypes.

  19. #22399

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    I hope they don't do anything for a couple of months, but I will probably be disappointed. Would be fun to see if anyone could break lurrus and create a dominant archetype. So far it's just being used in all archetypes.
    So literally all archetypes are breaking it right now? But not the way you want?

  20. #22400
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    I hope they don't do anything for a couple of months, but I will probably be disappointed. Would be fun to see if anyone could break lurrus and create a dominant archetype. So far it's just being used in all archetypes.
    The dominant archetype is Delver of Secrets with 4 Mishra's Bauble and Karakas (20 of 64 finishes).
    Delver is the best Lurrus deck.

    The shifts between Grixis, Jeskai and BUG Delver are just an attempt to metagame around each other. Jeskai can run more Karakas and has StP to permanently exile threats so they can't be recurred, good vs Grixis. That seemed fine and dandy until BUG emerged on Sunday, with Assassin's Trophy (to kill things like Karakas, Gyruda), Nimble Mongoose to dodge spot removal, and tech like Dead Weight and Sylvan Library. Delver will adapt again to handle BUG. They'll just keep changing a few slots to metagame around the latest hot Delver variation. The builds are quite similar, and the differences are mainly to beat each other.

    Lurrus White Weenie is just a metagame hate deck. Its great results are based on hating out all the Lurrus decks. (I like to call it Lurrus and Taxes, because it is guaranteed to face Lurrus decks and tax them).

    Then there are decks like Lurrus TES/ANT that are reallly just regular TES/ANT running Lurrus for free storm at no cost.

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