All B/R update speculation.

[Awaclus]

Of course you would think that Sneak Attack is more dangerous than Show and Tell after testing with a deck full of Sorcery speed Edicts. People relying on Countermagic will think otherwise, especially effects like Daze and Spell Pierce combined with Wasteland.

My edicts were mostly instant-speed, except for Gatekeeper.

Show and Tell lets you drop an uncounterable answer for free. Sneak Attack doesn't. The answer that you've got prepared for Show and Tell doesn't even do anything against Sneak Attack, unless it's a Humility and you've already resolved it. This is the main reason why Sneak Attack is the more powerful card. Also, Show and Tell is hit by Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Flusterstorm and Inquisition of Kozilek while Sneak Attack isn't. Spellstutter Sprite countering Show and Tell is possible, though unlikely, but countering Sneak Attack with Sprite is very difficult. Sneak Attack + Griselbrand kills you in one turn in the worst case, and even in the best case, it draws up to 21 cards instead of the 14 with Show and Tell if unanswered.

Luckily we still have Pithing Needle and Revoker, so it's not like it's impossible to answer and very likely not good enough to be banned.

In any case, if the point is to make SneakShow nonviable (which it appears to be, sadly), banning Sneak Attack is enough. The deck will lose so much consistency that it just won't be good enough for competitive Legacy without Sneak Attack.

[nedleeds]

In any case, if the point is to make SneakShow nonviable (which it appears to be, sadly), banning Sneak Attack is enough. The deck will lose so much consistency that it just won't be good enough for competitive Legacy without Sneak Attack.

Banning Brainstorm makes the deck impotent ... or at the very least much less consistent.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Banning Brainstorm makes the deck impotent ... or at the very least much less consistent.

Banning Brainstorm will kill the format.

[rxavage]

Ok, so we need to ban delver, gzs, brainstorm, fow, show&tell, sneak attack, and entomb? WTF?

[nedleeds]

Banning Brainstorm will kill the format.

What does that even mean? That's just something people like to say and then back up with nothing resembling a tangible fact.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

What does that even mean?

If you ban Brainstorm enough people will quit playing Legacy that the format would die. I can't believe I had to explain that.

Ok, so we need to ban delver, gzs, brainstorm, fow, show&tell, sneak attack, and entomb? WTF?

Seriously, at this point it's: ITT shitty magic players who want everything banned

[nedleeds]

If you ban Brainstorm enough people will quit playing Legacy that the format would die. I can't believe I had to explain that.

When you say *enough*, do you mean *enough* basement dwelling internet barnacles? Or people who actually play legacy, with real cards? Do you have a signed petition? I asked for facts; not your opinion about the whole of the actual tourney attending legacy population.

If you are quitting legacy because an obviously over powered ubiquitous card gets banned then you weren't really interested in the format anyway. You are just a poor deck builder, and a poor player who can't live without a crutch card that lets you cheat your mana base, and probably just cheat in general.

Seriously, at this point it's: ITT shitty magic players who want everything banned

The shitty players are the ones who can't build decks without access to SCG.com and who can't pilot a deck unless they get to cast a spell which removes any variance from the lines of play. These same players I guess, who want the same fucking card to be a 4x in all 8 of every top 8.

[Star|Scream]

If you ban Brainstorm enough people will quit playing Legacy that the format would die. I can't believe I had to explain that.

Says who? Who are these people that can't live without one pet card, but expect everyone else to live without theirs?

[Koby]

If Brainstorm were to be banned, then AEther Vial decks would reign supreme. Aggro-control would dry up. Maverick might be uberest deck in the format at that point. *shudder* No one wants to be playing Maverick mirrors.

[KobeBryan]

If Brainstorm were to be banned, then AEther Vial decks would reign supreme. Aggro-control would dry up. Maverick might be uberest deck in the format at that point. *shudder* No one wants to be playing Maverick mirrors.

Tell me about it...its the most mind draining 50 minutes of the day.

[Gheizen64]

My edicts were mostly instant-speed, except for Gatekeeper.

Show and Tell lets you drop an uncounterable answer for free. Sneak Attack doesn't. The answer that you've got prepared for Show and Tell doesn't even do anything against Sneak Attack, unless it's a Humility and you've already resolved it. This is the main reason why Sneak Attack is the more powerful card. Also, Show and Tell is hit by Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Flusterstorm and Inquisition of Kozilek while Sneak Attack isn't. Spellstutter Sprite countering Show and Tell is possible, though unlikely, but countering Sneak Attack with Sprite is very difficult. Sneak Attack + Griselbrand kills you in one turn in the worst case, and even in the best case, it draws up to 21 cards instead of the 14 with Show and Tell if unanswered.

Luckily we still have Pithing Needle and Revoker, so it's not like it's impossible to answer and very likely not good enough to be banned.

In any case, if the point is to make SneakShow nonviable (which it appears to be, sadly), banning Sneak Attack is enough. The deck will lose so much consistency that it just won't be good enough for competitive Legacy without Sneak Attack.

Sneak attack cost FIVE to cheat a creature in play. FIVE. That's Through the Breach mana cost. A single sphere or Gaddock mean you'll never play your sneak attack. Seriously you can't be comparing SnT with Sneak Attack. Banning Sneak attack make just no sense.

[Star|Scream]

If Brainstorm were to be banned, then AEther Vial decks would reign supreme. Aggro-control would dry up. Maverick might be uberest deck in the format at that point. *shudder* No one wants to be playing Maverick mirrors.

wat

So the only thing that is keeping combo in check is force of will and the only thing keeping aggro in check is brainstorm. Must be tiring for all the blue mages holding this format together!

[TooCloseToTheSun]

When you say *enough*, do you mean *enough* basement dwelling internet barnacles? Or people who actually play legacy, with real cards? Do you have a signed petition? I asked for facts; not your opinion about the whole of the actual tourney attending legacy population.

If you are quitting legacy because an obviously over powered ubiquitous card gets banned then you weren't really interested in the format anyway. You are just a poor deck builder, and a poor player who can't live without a crutch card that lets you cheat your mana base, and probably just cheat in general.

People who actually play legacy, like me. I would personally stop playing Legacy, cash out my $13,000 dollars in cards, buy a (good) standard deck, and maybe a new car. And I know I am not alone, we have had this discussion in my play group many times. I can't imagine that we are alone. Also, I love the assertion that all blue players cheat while asking for proof to back up my claim.

The shitty players are the ones who can't build decks without access to SCG.com and who can't pilot a deck unless they get to cast a spell which removes any variance from the lines of play. These same players I guess, who want the same fucking card to be a 4x in all 8 of every top 8.

No that would make them shitty deck builders not shitty players, learn the fucking difference. I will give you the point that Brainstorm does take a little variance out of the game, but I mean that's the point isn't it. I hate playing games where either player is stuck not being able to do anything. If I wanted that I would play sealed all the time. Variance takes skill out of the game, making it less chess and more poker, and that doesn't seem that appealing to me. If you want a less skill intensive format I would suggest playing another format.

[Star|Scream]

People who actually play legacy, like me. I would personally stop playing Legacy, cash out my $13,000 dollars in cards, buy a (good) standard deck, and maybe a new car. And I know I am not alone, we have had this discussion in my play group many times. I can't imagine that we are alone. Also, I love the assertion that all blue players cheat while asking for proof to back up my claim.




No that would make them shitty deck builders not shitty players, learn the fucking difference. I will give you the point that Brainstorm does take a little variance out of the game, but I mean that's the point isn't it. I hate playing games where either player is stuck not being able to do anything. If I wanted that I would play sealed all the time. Variance takes skill out of the game, making it less chess and more poker, and that doesn't seem that appealing to me. If you want a less skill intensive format I would suggest playing another format.

So you mean in addition to making the format more diverse, we'll have more access
(and therefore lower prices) to all the cards that are being hoarded across the planet?

[Koby]

wat

So the only thing that is keeping combo in check is force of will and the only thing keeping aggro in check is brainstorm. Must be tiring for all the blue mages holding this format together!

Maybe you don't understand how Brainstorm operates in this format. It allows people to play denser decks by skimping on lands/answers. Take away that option and now people need to play more lands/answers - this leads to a slowing down of the format.

That means control will have to play "overload" in order to compete. It means combo has to play more/other cantrips. It means Force of Will is less reliable.

All of this improves traditional Aggro to take over.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Maybe you don't understand how Brainstorm operates in this format. It allows people to play denser decks by skimping on lands/answers. Take away that option and now people need to play more lands/answers - this leads to a slowing down of the format.

That means control will have to play "overload" in order to compete. It means combo has to play more/other cantrips. It means Force of Will is less reliable.

All of this improves traditional Aggro to take over.

These people don't know how anything works in the format.

So you mean in addition to making the format more diverse, we'll have more access
(and therefore lower prices) to all the cards that are being hoarded across the planet?

If by "making the format more diverse," you mean, there will be no established meta. And by "have more access to all the cards," you mean, no legacy events so the cards will be worthless. Then yes, that's what I mean.

[Star|Scream]

Maybe you don't understand how Brainstorm operates in this format. It allows people to play denser decks by skimping on lands/answers. Take away that option and now people need to play more lands/answers - this leads to a slowing down of the format.

That means control will have to play "overload" in order to compete. It means combo has to play more/other cantrips. It means Force of Will is less reliable.

All of this improves traditional Aggro to take over.

What you don't get is that some people would welcome that. Just because you don't doesn't make your opinion any more correct than theirs.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

What you don't get is that some people would welcome that. Just because you don't doesn't make your opinion any more correct than theirs.

There is a format just like that, its called Modern.

[joemauer]

I would personally stop playing Legacy, cash out my $13,000 dollars in cards, buy a (good) standard deck...

Ok just slowly back away from the ledge. We don't want to do anything too irrational here. If we do lose something like brainstorm, you don't have to do something as extreme as play standard. We have other options like Vintage or EDH. No need to throw your life away.

[nedleeds]

wat

So the only thing that is keeping combo in check is force of will and the only thing keeping aggro in check is brainstorm. Must be tiring for all the blue mages holding this format together!

Uh ... the best aggro deck plays Brainstorm. So does the best combo deck(s). Oh and the best control deck as well. But hey why cite facts when you can just rage quit over an obvious ban candidate finally getting it's due.