View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

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  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #41
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    @ Earthcraft: The Sentinel is an example. You can substitute any 1cc Elf for and the Elf combo still works. Add Glimpse of Nature, and now you're 90% sure to win.

    @ WGD: Buried Alive is still easy to cast. Careful Study. Read the Runes. Cabal Therapy. etc.

    My experiences with these cards is on MTGO Classic, where the majority are not banned and are played from time to time. They aren't dominating... but Classic isn't known to be a competent player's format.

  2. #42
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Right right but, traditionally, when someone says one-card-combo to stir concern they don't usually mean three-card-combo-that's-really-unlikely-to-pull-off-with-a-crap-draw-engine-like-Glimpse.

    I suppose my point is that Earthcraft would probably be a blast in Legacy right now and would have little chance of truly dominating when all it takes to beat it is a CB out and a 1-drop on top of the deck (you know, apart from all the other easy avenues - that just happens to come to mind first.)

  3. #43
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    To wit:
    Earthcraft - Turn 1 Nettle Sentinel, Turn 2 Earthcraft, go off. 1 card combo.
    Um, what?
    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Frantic Search - makes Spring Tide a true contender (adds mana + card filtering), secondary uses in reanimator decks
    Oh no, combo? And really slow combo too? Good thing we can set up Counterbalance in time.
    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Goblin Recruiter - see GP San Diego 2003. Goblin Combo FTW!
    This is a reasonable card to keep banned.
    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Hermit Druid - 1 card combo
    That puts a creature into play, and is dependent on the graveyard. Who plays Breakfast anymore? Nobody.
    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Metalworker - ok, this one is weak without Tinker, but it has potential for abuse
    Like Nightmare said, an actual Prison archetype would be great (and would be a nice foil to CB).
    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Time Spiral - like TEPS needs more enablers
    So it's a Diminishing Returns that costs 2 more and might net you 2 mana?
    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Worldgorger Dragon - obv.
    See Hermit Druid.

  4. #44
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Earthcraft by itself is just like Sol Ring, crazy permanent mana acceleration. It just happens that it also comboes amazingly well with Glimpse-Elves, Squirrel's Nest, Wild Growth and Ant Queen. I think a first turn Wild Growth could perfectly enable 2nd turn Natural Order.

  5. #45
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Ban Tendrils. Ban Goyf. Ban Brainstorm.

    Unban WGD, Recruiter, Dream Halls, Black Vise, Land Tax, Earthcraft, Hermit Druid, Entomb, and Metal Worker.

    It'd be fun, anyway.
    "I am sure that we all agree that we ought to love one another, and I know that there are people in the world who feel no love for their fellow man, and let me tell you, I hate people like that."

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  6. #46
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    No one else thinks Metalworker would be busted?
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  7. #47
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Ban Tendrils. Ban Goyf. Ban Brainstorm.

    Unban WGD, Recruiter, Dream Halls, Black Vise, Land Tax, Earthcraft, Hermit Druid, Entomb, and Metal Worker.

    It'd be fun, anyway.
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  8. #48

    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Unban Dream Halls
    To expensive if you ask me.

    Unban Earthcraft
    to ugly, green has goyf and combo elves, lets leave it at that shall we?

    Unban Entomb
    Ichorid is allready a pest where I live, dont make it worse, also this would increase the amount of noobs that want to build a crappy reanimator deck that folds to STP and stuff

    Unban Frantic Search
    Like blue doesn't have enough cheap filtering as it is (don't care about spring tide)

    Unban Goblin Recruiter
    Basicly means: stack your deck in any order

    Unban Grim Monolith
    Would make MUD viable if we also got metalworker

    Unban Gush
    Make any land destruction spell obselete= not that good

    Unban Hermit Druid
    1card combo BUT: summoning sickness make's it OK I gues

    Unban Illusionary Mask
    Dreadnought is good enough as it is

    Unban Land Tax
    I'm cool with this, but the time issue comes to mind (lame reason actually)

    Unban Metalworker
    I would like to see MUD in legacy with staff of domination combo.

    Unban Mind Twist
    Needs 4 mana to make it better than hymn, seriously it's not that good

    Unban Time Spiral
    I had to use gatherer on this one: Free Draw7 = bad mojo


    Unban Worldgorger Dragon
    Seriously, what deck doesn't have an out against this stupid combo? maybe with entomb this could become Tier 2/3..

  9. #49

    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    It won't happen, but I'd love to see Grim Monolith and Metalworker unbanned, so we could have a viable prison deck in the format.
    At some point U + artifact mana hits a singularity. I'm not sure whether Grim Monolith is enough to put things over the top, but Grim Monolith definitely has potential as a combo enabler.

  10. #50
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Goblin recruiter had better never get unbanned. It would warp the format so goddamn badly. Goblins would turn into a combo deck that can beat the ever loving shit out of you on turn 3, or, if that fails, just fall back to their old hobby of beating your brains in with little green men.
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  11. #51
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    At some point U + artifact mana hits a singularity. I'm not sure whether Grim Monolith is enough to put things over the top, but Grim Monolith definitely has potential as a combo enabler.
    It's a colorless Cabal Ritual, that could enable some turn 2 Ad Nauseums. I'm not real worried.

  12. #52
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TorpidNinja View Post
    I suppose my point is that <card> would probably be a blast in Legacy right now and would have little chance of truly dominating when all it takes to beat it is a CB out and a 1-drop on top of the deck (you know, apart from all the other easy avenues - that just happens to come to mind first.)
    Fixed. CB/Top stops a lot of shenanigans. In terms of Elves - it's not terribly menacing. Vexing Shusher is a green creature for Summoner's Pact purposes, and Shusher beats CB-Top. You also have access to on-color removal for CB, so it's not a complete arguement saying that CB-Top alone beats Earthcraft-Elves. Point taken however. Same deal with Chalice of the Void.

  13. #53
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    As long as we're sharing crazy ideas, I still want to play with 4x Balance for three months.
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  14. #54
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    As long as we're sharing crazy ideas, I still want to play with 4x Balance for three months.
    I'll take a gumdrop unicorn and a life-size replica of the Empire State Building made out of steaks.

    Edit: In all seriousness, nothing will change.

  15. #55

    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    As long as we're sharing crazy ideas, I still want to play with 4x Balance for three months.
    4x Black Vise
    4x The Rack
    4x Mishra's Factory
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Chain Lightning
    4x Ball Lightning
    4x Balance
    4x Ankh of Mishra
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Wheel of Fortune
    1x Mind Twist
    1x Timetwister
    1x Time Walk
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Sapphire
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Sol Ring
    4x Stripmine
    3x City of Brass
    4x Volcanic Island
    4x Plateau

    Oh, those were the days.

  16. #56

    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Nothing is going to be changed, because nothing warrants a change. Even though I'd love to see Dream Halls being unbanned. What is the last card we ever got unbanned?

  17. #57

    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeroenC View Post
    Nothing is going to be changed, because nothing warrants a change. Even though I'd love to see Dream Halls being unbanned. What is the last card we ever got unbanned?
    Mind over Matter

    I think they should un-errata the Parallax series, and then immediately ban them...

  18. #58
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    4x Black Vise
    4x The Rack
    4x Mishra's Factory
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Chain Lightning
    4x Ball Lightning
    4x Balance
    4x Ankh of Mishra
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Wheel of Fortune
    1x Mind Twist
    1x Timetwister
    1x Time Walk
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Sapphire
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Sol Ring
    4x Stripmine
    3x City of Brass
    4x Volcanic Island
    4x Plateau

    Oh, those were the days.
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  19. #59
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I think they should un-errata the Parallax series, and then immediately ban them...
    I think only Parallax Wave got errata. I agree that it should be restored to its printed wording, and it's very weird that it escaped the Hunt for Power-Level Errata while a comparatively obscure card like Flash didn't. More evidence for Gottlieb's substance abuse, I guess.

    Either way, I don't think it warrants an immediate ban. Parallax Wave + Opalescence (and a cursory search doesn't show better options) means a freaking total of 2WW + 2WW to get a combo that doesn't immediately win you the game, although it gets close, and can be foiled by Krosan Grip or Pithing Needle. That's rather less scary than Painter/Grindstone.
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  20. #60
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    Re: September B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    You clearly have no clue about how these cards work.


    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    To wit:
    Earthcraft - Turn 1 Nettle Sentinel, Turn 2 Earthcraft, go off. 1 card combo.
    This isn't significantly better than what Elves! currently does with Birchlore Rangers and Heritage Druid. Besides, Elves! is a bad deck. Why would it be bad for the format to make it better?

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Frantic Search - makes Spring Tide a true contender (adds mana + card filtering), secondary uses in reanimator decks
    How would making Spring Tide and Reanimator better decks be bad for the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Goblin Recruiter - see GP San Diego 2003. Goblin Combo FTW!
    I may have misspoke on this one, but is this really more broken than Goblin Lackey? It's nuts with Food Chain, but I have a hard time believing Food Chain Goblins will wreck the format.

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Hermit Druid - 1 card combo
    ...that requires you to wait a turn with a 1/1 in play. Also it's vulnerable to every form of hate in the format. I think it could come off the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Metalworker - ok, this one is weak without Tinker, but it has potential for abuse
    It might make Stax viable. Oh no!

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Time Spiral - like TEPS needs more enablers
    TEPS? That Mind's Desire combo deck from Extended? You do know Mind's Desire is banned in Legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by overseer1234 View Post
    Unban Entomb
    Ichorid is allready a pest where I live, dont make it worse, also this would increase the amount of noobs that want to build a crappy reanimator deck that folds to STP and stuff
    I don't think Ichorid would run Entomb. What are you going to do, put a dredger in your yard with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by overseer1234 View Post
    Unban Gush
    Make any land destruction spell obselete= not that good
    Land destruction spells are already obsolete.

    Quote Originally Posted by overseer1234 View Post
    Unban Illusionary Mask
    Dreadnought is good enough as it is
    Illusionary Mask doesn't really make it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by overseer1234 View Post
    Unban Time Spiral
    I had to use gatherer on this one: Free Draw7 = bad mojo
    Time Spiral is only a free draw seven if you have six lands in play.
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