View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #8121

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adryan View Post
    Whenever i print proxies with my printer at home, i always recognize that if i would invest some time, that no one at a tournament would realize that they are printed on a paper sheet...

    What i want to say is that there are way more counterfeits out there than people think. Just don't try to sell them and no one will find out.
    So true. My fingers were also itchin to get some good fakes of P9, just so I could play in sanctioned Vintage. I mean good fakes are detectable under loope, with several tests, etc, who in their right mind would stop the game, call the judge and say that guy is playing with proxies. And even if they do, f*** you, what makes you the authority to detect fakes.

    ps: f*** you reserved list and f*** wizards; all hail our future overlords - quality fakes.

  2. #8122

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post

    ps: f*** you reserved list and f*** wizards; all hail our future overlords - quality fakes.
    I think Vintage Masters is selling like crazy on Magic Online. Maybe they'll realize one day that it's stupid to not use their licence to print money. Maybe they don't. Then chinese people will make money. Lots of money.
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  3. #8123
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adryan View Post
    I think Vintage Masters is selling like crazy on Magic Online. Maybe they'll realize one day that it's stupid to not use their licence to print money. Maybe they don't. Then chinese people will make money. Lots of money.
    They could also make tons of money with stuff they could reprint, e.g. FoW, Wasteland, etc., but they choose not to for whatever stupid reason.

    Makes you wonder how they can make that much money, despite some very questionable mismanagement (MTGO comes into mind).

  4. #8124

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    They could also make tons of money with stuff they could reprint, e.g. FoW, Wasteland, etc., but they choose not to for whatever stupid reason.

    Makes you wonder how they can make that much money, despite some very questionable mismanagement (MTGO comes into mind).
    WotC makes money because they get people to buy crappy cards over and over again. The rarity of many good cards drives the secondary market and keeps people opening boxes at a regular pace. Draft is the icing on the cake.

  5. #8125
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    The Chinese are likely to take over before that happens. There's just too much money to be made to let that opportunity slip.
    I'm not so sure anymore. Wouldn't Vintage have that happen already?
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  6. #8126
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    I'm not so sure anymore. Wouldn't Vintage have that happen already?
    People would be way more wary about P9 instead of random Legacy staples.

  7. #8127

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by AggroControl View Post
    WotC makes money because they get people to buy crappy cards over and over again. The rarity of many good cards drives the secondary market and keeps people opening boxes at a regular pace. Draft is the icing on the cake.
    Yeah, except if they don't reprint those rare cards, they don't make any money off of them. Unless you think players are, incentivized by the desire to get a Force of Will, will be opening up Magic 2015 which... has no Force of Will. Your logic here doesn't seem to make much sense.

    A good card having high secondary market value only keeps people opening up booster packs when it's in those booster packs, and even that only benefits Wizards of the Coast when it's booster packs they're currently producing (high value for Chord of Calling currently benefits them; high value for Horizon Canopy currently does not). And, heck, sometimes the opposite occurs. If a set is unpopular, cards in it can be worth more because fewer copies were opened. Tarmogoyf and the rest of the things from Future Sight are worth so much because Future Sight wasn't a popular set at the time it was printed, so their price goes up thanks to the resulting scarcity. Similarly, I think Brimaz would be cheaper if Born of the Gods was a more popular set due to more copies being in circulation.

  8. #8128
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    People would be way more wary about P9 instead of random Legacy staples.
    It isn't like Vintage is limited to p9. There are still other valuable cards as well. And most of the highly priced Legacy cards are still used in Vintage. I think Vintage/Legacy are too small of a market. Essentially since Vintage reached the point of unsanctioned proxy events as regular things and there wasn't a large influx of fakes. Could also be that proxies devalues fakes. Not sure how long until Legacy reaches that point. Maybe when coupled with Modern gaining more and more popularity there may be enough of a market there for counterfeiters to exploit in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Respect my shine bitch!

  9. #8129

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Yeah, except if they don't reprint those rare cards, they don't make any money off of them. Unless you think players are, incentivized by the desire to get a Force of Will, will be opening up Magic 2015 which... has no Force of Will. Your logic here doesn't seem to make much sense.

    A good card having high secondary market value only keeps people opening up booster packs when it's in those booster packs, and even that only benefits Wizards of the Coast when it's booster packs they're currently producing (high value for Chord of Calling currently benefits them; high value for Horizon Canopy currently does not). And, heck, sometimes the opposite occurs. If a set is unpopular, cards in it can be worth more because fewer copies were opened. Tarmogoyf and the rest of the things from Future Sight are worth so much because Future Sight wasn't a popular set at the time it was printed, so their price goes up thanks to the resulting scarcity. Similarly, I think Brimaz would be cheaper if Born of the Gods was a more popular set due to more copies being in circulation.
    The opening of boxes is mainly to fuel the Standard and Draft formats with the occasional new eternal staple thrown in. I'm just remembering the $20 Grave Titans at one point in the 2011 Standard meta that never actually made it into even a tier 1.5 list.

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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    The 65~ person vintage at Gencon had zero children.
    What a sad picture.

  11. #8131
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by AggroControl View Post
    The opening of boxes is mainly to fuel the Standard and Draft formats with the occasional new eternal staple thrown in. I'm just remembering the $20 Grave Titans at one point in the 2011 Standard meta that never actually made it into even a tier 1.5 list.
    Except for UB control...which won Worlds...and was a tier 1 deck.

  12. #8132

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    What a sad picture.
    That is sad :(

  13. #8133
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Indeed, I always thought it was amusing as shit when some kid sits down with belcher and dream crushes
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I still have a strong suspicion that if 'Thalia, Heretic Cathar' had been named 'Frank, Heretic Cathar', people would be a lot more skeptical of it.
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    Ugh, there he goes again, talking about the girlfriend. We get it dude.

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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds View Post
    Indeed, I always thought it was amusing as shit when some kid sits down with belcher and dream crushes
    Forget it, I misread the original post and thought that it's about a 65 y/o dude not having children, only his cards' collection. That would be sad.
    A 65 ppl Vintage Gen con ain't sad. More hilarious.

  15. #8135
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    There were thousands of Legacy staples at Gencon. Legacy will continue moving towards being an older employed persons format, as players age and get jobs and have money they'll stay with eternal magic. They are employed and have money so there's no need to sell their collections, they have discretionary income to buy whatever pittance of eternal playable

    Things are probably fine for the next 20 years however if people never sell there collections then eventually you reach the point where there is not enough staples available for new players. Sure that might be in 50 years and we will all be in our 90's but you reach the point where new players would be waiting for someone to drop dead so cards go back into circulation.

    Those of us that have been playing for 15+ years probably have fond memories of using our old cards. Decks like Thresh and Pox may have gotten new cards (Delver, Lilly) but the core stratagy of the deck has not really changed for a decade. However if stores can not fire regular 8-man non-proxy events why would new players want to buy into Legacy?

    Looking at the other thread about the Arazonia meta and I see lots of Burn and D&T (Ports were cheap until last year) and that echos what I see locally lots of mono-colored decks and a few BUG decks running mostly on shocks form the people that already own Goyf.
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
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  16. #8136
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lyracian View Post
    Sure that might be in 50 years and we will all be in our 90's but you reach the point where new players would be waiting for someone to drop dead so cards go back into circulation.
    Another 50 years? That's a bit unrealistic.

    Magic is still going very strong, but I doubt it keeps going forever. They already have severe creativity problems after 20 years, hence all the recycling we're seeing lately. I can't see them going on for another 50 years or longer. And if Magic is no longer in print, the popularity of all the older cards (aside from collector pieces) is going to drop as well.

    All assuming Wizards doesn't do RL reprints at some point or the Chinese aren't taking over (again, at some point in the future, we will get actual high quality fakes since it prints money Wizards isn't willing to print out of stupidity).

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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Another 50 years? That's a bit unrealistic.
    Is it? Assuming cards are not reprint (either by WotC or Chinese fakers) how long would you say Magic has? They may just be reusing ideas but that does not mean it will stop the game from selling.
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lyracian View Post

    Things are probably fine for the next 20 years however if people never sell there collections then eventually you reach the point where there is not enough staples available for new players.
    Don't you know that it's somehow secretly good for the game? /sarcasm



    I don't think that MtG may survive for fifty years, definitely not as a mainstream thing. It all depends on the level of infantility across the first world, and it's also about what happens during wartime years, when people will be selling their stuff for dirt cheap, once they'll realize that bread or atb are more important for their children than sitting on a pile of cardboard.

    I came to a conclusion that nowadays situation is what WotC really like and there's nothing that may change it, unless massive prints of fakes endager the whole game, the whole Wizards' money-printing industry. I don't even think that there's some (more or less hidden) agenda to kill the Eternal or w/e, but basically Wizards look at the ghosts of the past (not only P9, but also every design mistake be it Yawgmoth's Will, Strip Mine, Mana Vault or any other sick card) and somehow dislike how they "spoil" the game. ALso, there are hundreds of other CCGs and Magic stands above all of them not only because it's the first one, but for other reasons, one of them being the legendary cards of the past. Frankly, I'm sure that WotC lrealized long ago that destroying the status of such cards like P9 (by reprinting them) won't do them any good, as one aspect of MtG history/aura/w-e would be lost. Moreover this opens window for further reprints and this is a slippery slope they're not going to step on. Because further reprints might mean further blah blah, you know, all the legendary haze surrounding MtG will vanish. Magic in twenty+ years might revolve around the same concepts like it did ever since 1995, with the strong (yet unseen) "base" of the P9-like stuff that gives the game an aura of something exceptional.

  19. #8139

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    7 Fetchlands
    11 Islands
    1 Tropical Island

    4 High Tide
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Mental Misstep
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Reset
    4 Impulse
    4 Frantic Search
    4 Force of Will
    3 Cunning Wish
    3 Meditate
    2 Brain Freeze
    1 Flash of Insight

    sb;
    1 Meditate
    1 Turnabout
    1 Stroke of Genius
    1 Hunting Pack
    xxxxxxx

    Maybe replace a land, and Flash for 2 Remands, or Opt/Peek/Visions of Beyond. Only way to fit Misstep in Solidarity is to add Frantic Search so you can flush away all the dead crap during a combo. Seems good.

    Please Wizards?

    On a more serious note, discussion on the unbanning of Frantic Search? I see High Tide (obv) and RUG Delver running it, or even some horrible Snapcaster+Frantic Search midrange-control deck.

    edit; forgot the Brain Freeze.

  20. #8140

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanti View Post
    7 Fetchlands
    11 Islands
    1 Tropical Island

    4 High Tide
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Mental Misstep
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Reset
    4 Impulse
    4 Frantic Search
    4 Force of Will
    3 Cunning Wish
    3 Meditate
    2 Brain Freeze
    1 Flash of Insight

    sb;
    1 Meditate
    1 Turnabout
    1 Stroke of Genius
    1 Hunting Pack
    xxxxxxx

    Maybe replace a land, and Flash for 2 Remands, or Opt/Peek/Visions of Beyond. Only way to fit Misstep in Solidarity is to add Frantic Search so you can flush away all the dead crap during a combo. Seems good.

    Please Wizards?

    On a more serious note, discussion on the unbanning of Frantic Search? I see High Tide (obv) and RUG Delver running it, or even some horrible Snapcaster+Frantic Search midrange-control deck.

    edit; forgot the Brain Freeze.
    I don't think that there is any deck out there that would play Frantic Search except High Tide. In Reanimator a 3 mana careful study is not good. And why should RUG Delver play a 3cc spell that creates card disadvantage? In my eyes Frantic Search is a completely fine unban, because it won't make High Tide oppressive. it would only decrease the number of Delver, Storm and S&T decks a little bit, because they are all bad against High Tide.
    TheRiedl on Magic Online

    About Magic Online:

    I can play legacy whenever I want. Cardboard has no value. Data has no value. My time and enjoyment has high value to me. More legacy = more fun. Buy in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einherjer View Post
    When Obilivion Ring is said to be an equivalent counterpiece to Red Elemental Blast in regards to Show and Tell and Jace, you know all is lost.

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