Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
What I remember from that GP was all of the articles coming out the next week about how terrible the format was and the ban hammer that came down shortly afterwards on the combo decks.Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
You don't know what the meta is right now. No one does. You could look back before TC but DTT, swiftspear and Monastery Mentor didn't exist back then. You need to chill out for a month or so and make your arguments based on results rather than what the results were a week ago, which doesn't matter at all anymore.
Edit: I also think you are overvaluing FoW in a lot of match ups. I usually board FoW out against Shardless, Junk, Maverick (unless choke will ruin me), Jund, deathblade, D&T, etc. All of those decks are roughly mid-range.
The "mirror" varies a lot. Miracles I leave it in, tempo depends whether I'm on the play or draw (daze coming in and out matters), shardless it comes out, deathblade it comes out.
The pre-TC meta FoW in/out boarding very much depends on what you are playing again. It's generally very bad against Hymn/Lil decks and good against decks that need to resolve a key spell. These boarding decisions are also up for debate and depend on individual lists, what you have to board in, what can come out, etc.
For the love of God, if you are really going to argue that the banning of the POLICE CARD in Legacy is a good idea you're going to be very much on your own. Ban force and please add to the list:
LED
ETW
Charbelcher
Tendrils
Grapeshot
Entomb
Exume
Dark Ritual
Undercity Informer
Balustrade Spy
Dread Return
Also why not add Nomands en-Kor and Cephalid Illusionist for good measure?
Fool, I know the post is now deleted, but did you not say that you did not want to see anymore stupid posts in here and that the post in question was going to be your last? You how you can help make that first point a reality? Stick to the second.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
He is a troll.
Agreed that the bar is ludicrously high.
I don't know that it ever has to be over anything else. If we got to 90%+ penetration that would probably be reason enough. The fact that we are at 70%+ is already fairly absurd given historical precedents of what constitutes "too much" for Wotc's tastes, though it's obviously way more complicated for BS compared to something like Jace in Standard etc.. Or if a new card that pushed it over the top was inherently fair (similar to SOTF and VVine).
"It's sooooo unfair if my opponent can waste TWO FUCKING CARDS to counter my 1cc threat!"
*facepalm*
Seriously, if you run 2-for-1 solutions against any attrition-based deck, I would not wonder why your win-rate is horrid
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
Jace had a 100% (yes, 100%) penetration in some PTQ Top8s shortly before the banning (32 out of 32 possible Jaces that is), while Jace was a 100 $ card at that time. I'm pretty sure if we see the same thing true for Brainstorm it will be banned in short order.
No, we will not see Brainstorm getting banned. It routinely goes 24 or 28 out of 32.
A btw since you broad it up. Force is necassary against combo as are other control elements. You can see this
when you look in a totaly different game called Legends of the five Rings. This game is so cumunity driven it hurts. They
allways complained about how unfun it was to play against control mechanics that in the end Alderac removed them.
Guess what all started to play combos. The reason was aggro could not be fast enough to threaten them and control was and is non exsistant. That lead to a couple of hard bans. Also since they still don´t have a control aspect you can bet every good combo is beeing banned after 1 Tournement leaving the former deep and complicated game with a minium of ways to win most including aggro strategies.
so this is what I call lame. I don´t want to play a game were my only victory option is to attack. If you want this go play L5r. It is still complicated and you can have fun. But I think for Magic the diversity in strategies is important and if you remove 1 or make it unplayble you actually remove 2.
What are you even talking about? We've had a perfect brainstorm quite a few times at well attended events (9+ rounds), the poster child was GP Paris where we had 28/32 possible Brainstorms and the other deck running 6 maindeck red blasts. We also had somebody cheat and draw extra cards with Brainstorm on camera. All of this wasn't enough to get it banned. So arguing about whether it should be banned based on event results, facts, power level, ubiquity is a waste of text. At this point nobody with a functioning brain is arguing about it's banworthiness, only about WotC pulling the trigger on it. It's the Necropotence lesson all over again, they banned / restricted a half dozen cards around Necro because people enjoyed the card. Nothing ever worked. finally they banned Necro. Treasure Cruise was a sacrificial lamb in place of the better, more ubiquitous, more abusive card Brainstorm. They can keep pulling hot garbage like WGD off the banned list (ironically if it puts up any results guess what it'll be paired with?) it won't change the 80%. They can keep printing 'hosers' like SotL and Notion Thief but it'll have to be something insane to incent people to not play 4 virtual Ancestrals.
Hey Nedleeds,
Perhaps you should just change your signature to "I hate Brainstorm and you should all hate it too! RECOGNIZE MY HATRED!!! RECOGNIZE!!!" and then you could simply drop a smiley face in this thread once a day to get your point across for the millionth time.
Brainstorm is a fun card and I think legacy is better off with it than without. If you're so hell bent on derping green creatures together then go play Modern.
Griselbrand?
Entomb?
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
Oh for sure, and Animate Dead. Good thing I already completed my Alpha set.
Yes,if your reason to keep BS around is that it is fun, or nostalgic, or iconic, or something around these lines then it would be a different thing. That is a completely logical reasoning and there is nothing wrong with it. If you want to play a format in which you either put yourself in a serious disadvantage or play with a good number of predefined cards (BS, Ponder, FoW, Fetchlands) that almost everyone else also runs that is a fair point. I don't even mean it as bad as it sounds. If you enjoy it, that is great for you, and I can understand that you don't want it changed.
The problem is that some users here keep bringing up retarded arguments for how Brainstorm is not banworthy for its power level and nedleds only points out the flaws in their reasoning. Which on the one hand is pretty easy because of how obviously OP the card is but on the other hand somewhat frustrating due to the sheer stupidity of the arguments you have to deal with.
In all fairness, brainstorm is way over powered and fits all the criteria to be considered ban worthy. Sorcery speed deck manipulation seems more balanced rather than " hold on, I gotta get rid of these two lands I dont need, draw an answer to your spell youve cast as well as two other cards" for one u at instant speed. If brainstorm were black it would read: " draw three put two back and lose the game immedietly" for one black mana.
Legacy doesn't have a restricted list. Cards that must be included in most lists are supposed to be banned instead. It was the premise of the format. No restricted list, ban power instead. Somehow Brainstorm has escaped that fate despite the fact that it will be a 4-of and never tuned out in the majority of Legacy lists from now until the format crumbles.
It's time they make some drastic changes to the legacy banlist management.
I honestly feel like it is managed by people not even playing the format at all.
Ban Treasure Cruise? But not Brainstorm?
Unban Worldgorger Dragon?!?! But not Mind Twist and Black Vise?!?
God I hate whoever makes these decisions.
That would be Erik Lauer.
I'm interested to see how the SCG Legacy portion is going to turn out today. MODO is currently useless for data collecting since the format is in limbo until the changes are applied there on Wednesday (almost 79% Brainstorm right now trolololol).
And I hate people who do not even try to comprehend decisions made. You should know about their stupid "prisoner exchange" habit for Eternal Formats and it's totally fine to call that one bullshit, but if you sit in Eriks seat and see Treasure Cruise rampant in Modern, a format without powerful cantrips like Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain and Vintage (Brainstorm and Ponder resticted) beside it's omnipresence in Legacy, you have to adress the issue with an obvious move.
Seriously, how stupid would it have been to ban/restict TC in Modern/Vintage, but ban Brainstorm in Legacy, while knowing that Preordain/Ponder/TC would remain a problem?
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
Graveyard strategies aren't well represented during this period. I'm actually happy with that decision instead of them waiting another 2 months for Dragons of Tarkir, where it would've been more apt to unban WGD.
They noted that blue-red Delver was hurting format diversity, if Black Vise got unbanned instead, guess into which deck it'll go and abuse it the most?
Now we are going back to a format where discard and Liliana are good again. Giving black-green control another tool at this time would not be the wisest.
There are currently 3020 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3020 guests)
Reply With Quote