All B/R update speculation.

[Star|Scream]

It's worth a reminder that until recently, the format was never reduced or polarized into Brainstorm decks vs. hatedecks. And it was much more enjoyable.

No, you still learned nothing. You're still arguing from a position of personal taste, like it or not. And your gusto is equal to any other's, it's not like you're bearer of ultimate truth.


^^ Take your own advice.

[Lemnear]

There's no point for Zoo being viable and similarly there's no point for Miracles being viable, no "deck" is sacred. There are no decks, just legal cards. If BS is too powerful for Legacy, then it should get of the format no matter how would "Miracles" look like post-ban or whatever.

I give zero fucks if someone's pet deck will be lawful viable, chaotic average, lightly nerfed or totally dead. If the card is stifling the format, then it should be gone. There's other Magic than Brainstorm, the whole of the game's history should be a testimony of that. It's worth a reminder that until recently, the format was never reduced or polarized into Brainstorm decks vs. hatedecks. And it was much more enjoyable.

You don't care about decks being viable or dead and still whine like a little girl if viable decks without Brainstorm are limited. Schizophrenic? You also don't want to argue against my points in regards to "Miracles w/o Brainstorm is not a deck" which you attacked me first for?

also +1 to Star|Scream

[M+1]

And it was much more enjoyable.

Now there is a personal opinion... I have been playing Legacy since its inception, as you probably have, and I have never enjoyed the format as much as I do right now.
For the record.
Maybe reevaluate your life, or relationship with the game in general?

[solidbass]

So I think the right question to ask is: is 80% of decks running Brainstorm too much? Probably. So should Brainstorm be banned? Probably not. Why? It doesn't stifle diversity because all decks types that can and do run it. Color diversity and specific deck types don't need to exist in Legacy at an equal ratio. In fact, I don't think blue was ever 2nd tier in legacy and there is nothing wrong with that.

Anyways, to get to my point, if Brainstorm continues to put up 80%+ results then Dig through Time will/should get banned. Which would, I believe, indirectly decrease Brainstorm's dominance (and to a lesser extent ponder, g probe, preordain) in the format.

[Julian23]

Now there is a personal opinion... I have been playing Legacy since its inception, as you probably have, and I have never enjoyed the format as much as I do right now.

I've always been around since Legacy became a format and have to say that the only times I have enjoyed the format less was during the Flash era and the first rise of Counterbalance in 2009, before Alara.

I however don't think that this is Brainstorm's fault. I really don't care what happens to the card. I don't mind seeing it legal, but I also would be excited to see where we would end up if it was banned. The only cards I really care about right now are Top and Terminus, the two real oppressors of the format.

Brainstorm doesn't kill decks. Terminus does.

[rufus]

So I think the right question to ask is: is 80% of decks running Brainstorm too much? Probably. So should Brainstorm be banned? Probably not. Why? It doesn't stifle diversity because all decks types that can and do run it. Color diversity and specific deck types don't need to exist in Legacy at an equal ratio. In fact, I don't think blue was ever 2nd tier in legacy and there is nothing wrong with that. ...

Would having 80% of decks running Necropotence or Mental Misstep be too much? Both of those will work just fine "all deck types that can and do run" them, so they should unbannable by the same reasoning, right?

[Zombie]

Now there is a personal opinion... I have been playing Legacy since its inception, as you probably have, and I have never enjoyed the format as much as I do right now.
For the record.
Maybe reevaluate your life, or relationship with the game in generel?

He's way ahead of you on that.

[Fatal]

Agreed with Julian

Brainstorm doesn't kill decks. Terminus does.

Brainstorm just power up Terminus when you start game with Terminus on hand, or draw it when not needed. Which can be connected with any card brainstorm is just:
- Enabler for bad draws with replacing 3 cards with better CQ on instant
- Protection key cards vs discard CA

[Lemnear]

Would having 80% of decks running Necropotence or Mental Misstep be too much? Both of those will work just fine "all deck types that can and do run" them, so they should unbannable by the same reasoning, right?

Cards like necropotence as example are out of context as they don't fuel various strategies if unbanned and the same is somewhat true for Misstep as well. You had a better point if you picked Black Lotus as it serves various Archetypes (if we ignore the result, that games would be pretty swingy and full of random blowouts which is undesirable)

[Admiral_Arzar]

Cards like necropotence as example are out of context as they don't fuel various strategies if unbanned and the same is somewhat true for Misstep as well. You had a better point if you picked Black Lotus as it serves various Archetypes (if we ignore the result, that games would be pretty swingy and full of random blowouts which is undesirable)

Necropotence is perfectly capable of fueling engine combo, A+B combo, control, even sui aggro (and it has demonstrably done so during the periods where it wrecked formats), so I don't see the point of this post. The Skull is arguably the BEST comparison card to Brainstorm, because it is/was a beloved but broken card that fueled many different archetypes.

[Lemnear]

Necropotence is perfectly capable of fueling engine combo, A+B combo, control, even sui aggro (and it has demonstrably done so during the periods where it wrecked formats), so I don't see the point of this post. The Skull is arguably the BEST comparison card to Brainstorm, because it is/was a beloved but broken card that fueled many different archetypes.

I don't think we should look at Necro based on how it worked in Aggro during Pro Tour NY Qualifiers in '96 or as a combo engine in Pro Tour Chicago in '99 if it's clear that the Card screams for Dark/Cabal Ritual all over which pairs poorly with what we consider "control" today. It's like pointing at Yagmoths Will and the fact that is was played in control desk as well as combo decks while it would be pretty obvious in which archetype of today the card really shines

[FoolofaTook]

If Necropotence was still as powerful as it was back in the late 90's it would just get incorporated into the blue shell even with the requirement. Other archetypes would use it also but they wouldn't be able to find it as reliably as a list with Brainstorm and they wouldn't be able to exchange chaff from the pulls as easily. It might push Ponder out of the shell though. Spending a lot of life to get a lot of cantrips, lands, extra Necros and the odd dark ritual doesn't sound like the best way to make use of it.

If a card is powerful enough to be worth playing in a vacuum at this point it's going to be better in the blue shell than anywhere else. Think Ad Nauseum, Liliana of the Veil and Hymn to Tourach for reference. They're all powerful outside the blue shell but which lists make the best use of them in top 8's?

[eays]

The feel bad card of the moment for me seems to be dig through time. Does anyone feel like this card is to good? Am I crazy? It honestly feels as back breaking/game ending as cruise when it resolves in the decks is used in. Open to criticism on my opinion of course. Pay two mana for instant speed double tutor...is bad feels.

[Finn]

It definitely pushes the envelope. I find myself cutting other elements out of my designs just so that I can fuel this card better. That says a lot to me. The thing is that they tempered its power by saddling it with a double color requirement; UU. It is not really much of an issue at all when building or playing the card though. GG would be an obstacle, or WW or RR or BB, but UU is a natural event in the mana development of the decks that card finds itself in. It may as well be 1U.

[solidbass]

Yeah, I think Dig through Time will get the axe. It's too good.

[Lemnear]

Yeah, I think Dig through Time will get the axe. It's too good.

Remember then I freaked out in the Spoiler thread over TC/DTT and mentioned Tombstalker as clear hint that the Delve-Mechanic is plain broken next to Storm? WotC is really run by people not playtesting cards and mechanics at all

[rufus]

Yeah, I think Dig through Time will get the axe. It's too good.

DTT may well be stronger than treasure cruise. I've been cynically wondering whether the rarity keeps them from banning it right away.

[Lemnear]

DTT may well be stronger than treasure cruise. I've been cynically wondering whether the rarity keeps them from banning it right away.

You have every right to by cynical as there is no sane reason to ban TC (because the delve-mechanic is obviously broke and too easy to abuse) and not the other dumb, also blue Delve-Spell as well. I mean, DTT had it's breakthrough in S&T variants right before TC was banned and it was about as easily abusable as TC in Delver to create cardadvantage/-selection

[FoolofaTook]

DTT may be broken but like many cards in the "may be broken" category it has the "screws up your draw in the wrong opening hand" problem.

I wonder what card fixes bad DTT draws easily and thus enables it as a 3 and 4-of despite it's unwieldy cost early in the game and the near impossibility of casting 2 of them until the game has become quite mature? What card finds it easily and provides additional fuel for it in the finding process? What card could that possibly be?

Hmmm. It's a conundrum.

[Star|Scream]

DTT may be broken but like many cards in the "may be broken" category it has the "screws up your draw in the wrong opening hand" problem.

I wonder what card fixes bad DTT draws easily and thus enables it as a 3 and 4-of despite it's unwieldy cost early in the game and the near impossibility of casting 2 of them until the game has become quite mature? What card finds it easily and provides additional fuel for it in the finding process? What card could that possibly be?

Hmmm. It's a conundrum.

When you find out which card it is, let us know because I definitely want to play 4 of them in all my decks!!!