All B/R update speculation.

[FoolofaTook]

When you find out which card it is, let us know because I definitely want to play 4 of them in all my decks!!!

So does everybody else. That's the problem. 56 card format for the win.

Why is DTT broken right now? Because it's very powerful and it slides into the blue shell. How do we know that both considerations are true? Because nobody plays it outside the blue shell. Nobody plays Dig Through Time in the absence of Brainstorm.

The next question becomes at what level will DTT settle in most of the lists that play it? 2, 3 or 4? It won't go into all blue shell lists only because some lists do not want the requirement even in the mid-game.

[HSCK]

DTT may be broken but like many cards in the "may be broken" category it has the "screws up your draw in the wrong opening hand" problem.

I wonder what card fixes bad DTT draws easily and thus enables it as a 3 and 4-of despite it's unwieldy cost early in the game and the near impossibility of casting 2 of them until the game has become quite mature? What card finds it easily and provides additional fuel for it in the finding process? What card could that possibly be?

Hmmm. It's a conundrum.

I'm sure lots of people would play that format and that it's pretty popular, except for like 9 or 10 that get angry on forums.

[Raystar]

I'm sure lots of people would play that format and that it's pretty popular, except for like 9 or 10 that get angry on forums.

It's more than 9 or 10...but people have better thing to do that to argue here...

[Zilla]

The Skull is arguably the BEST comparison card to Brainstorm, because it is/was a beloved but broken card that fueled many different archetypes.

It's a poor comparison. Games are not determined by who is able to resolve Brainstorm first.

[Lemnear]

So does everybody else. That's the problem. 56 card format for the win.

Why is DTT broken right now? Because it's very powerful and it slides into the blue shell. How do we know that both considerations are true? Because nobody plays it outside the blue shell. Nobody plays Dig Through Time in the absence of Brainstorm.

The next question becomes at what level will DTT settle in most of the lists that play it? 2, 3 or 4? It won't go into all blue shell lists only because some lists do not want the requirement even in the mid-game.

Yeah, what an wicked format in which spells with costs are only played in decks containing Islands *eyesroll*

Nobody plays DTT in the absence of Brainstorm? Ever looked at Moderns Twin or Scapeshift? Intentional ignoring of facts, hu?

[Barook]

Why is DTT broken right now?

- being brutally undercosted due to cheap feeding methods, aka fetches + cheap spells (espcially cantrips in general)
- any attempt of interacting with the DTT player results in fodder for them

Delve into CA is an utterly retarded mechanic.

[rufus]

- being brutally undercosted due to cheap feeding methods, aka fetches + cheap spells (espcially cantrips in general)
- any attempt of interacting with the DTT player results in fodder for them

Delve into CA is an utterly retarded mechanic.

We haven't seen a whole lot of Tasigur's Cruelty have we? The more board advantage oriented delve cards like Empty the Pits, or Sibsig Muckdraggers haven't really made any kind of splash either.

[Star|Scream]

It's more than 9 or 10...but people have better thing to do that to argue here...

Apparently, they don't.

[Barook]

We haven't seen a whole lot of Tasigur's Cruelty have we? The more board advantage oriented delve cards like Empty the Pits, or Sibsig Muckdraggers haven't really made any kind of splash either.

Empty the Pits is pretty meh, Sibsig Muckdraggers's effect is crap and why would anyone play Tasigur's Cruelty over Hymn?

[eays]

I am glad many of the knowledgeable people of this forum agree with me that dig is totally borked. I think Wizards at the time thought dig safer for legacy cause cruise decks kept dig decks in check...or perpaps ppl were still figuring out the right shell for it. But there is no doubt it my mind that in snt...miracles...blue midrange control...it's nothing short of broken. It's not just raw card advantage it's also card selection...at instant speed...and is fueled by simply playing magic.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I am glad many of the knowledgeable people of this forum agree with me that dig is totally borked. I think Wizards at the time thought dig safer for legacy cause cruise decks kept dig decks in check...or perpaps ppl were still figuring out the right shell for it. But there is no doubt it my mind that in snt...miracles...blue midrange control...it's nothing short of broken. It's not just raw card advantage it's also card selection...at instant speed...and is fueled by simply playing magic.

I about crapped my pants when I saw Dig just because of the implications for my favorite pet deck (Spiral Tide). I can confirm that Dig is utterly busted in that deck and probably every other as well. I'm still waiting for WOTC to learn their lesson regarding mechanics that make spells free and/or cost a whole lot less than they should. I mean, how many more mistakes do they need to make to avoid such obvious blunders? It only takes one mistake per mechanic - every Cascade spell besides Bloodbraid Elf was balanced (Bituminous Blast) or just straight bad (pretty much everything else). But that one card wrecked two formats, finally getting the banhammer in the second. Phyrexian mana is the same story only replace Elf with Misstep.

[Lord Seth]

DTT may well be stronger than treasure cruise. I've been cynically wondering whether the rarity keeps them from banning it right away.

Extremely unlikely. It didn't stop them from banning it in Modern alongside Treasure Cruise. Heck, it's only recently that it's started to gain steam in Legacy; its monetary value (which wasn't really that much) was basically entirely from its play in Standard at the time of the last banning announcement. And it's not even in the top 10 most played cards in Standard, so it's sure as heck not going to get banned there.

[eays]

Ok so consensus is dig is busted. I would not be sad to see it gone before it becomes the format defining card and a staple which certain spikes are too attached to.

I have another card that bothers me and while I don't think it would ever be a banning candidate. ..what do ppl think of gitaxian probe? I might get hate for this but i hate this catd.Complete information is so powerful in legacy and to get it for free...it seems like a under talked about all star card with a rediculously powerful effect to have for free.

[Julian23]

Once real Aggro becomes a thing again, you will think twice before putting Gitaxian Probe into your non-combo deck.

[sjmcc13]

I'm still waiting for WOTC to learn their lesson regarding mechanics that make spells free and/or cost a whole lot less than they should.

They learned the lesson back in Saga block, they just "forgot" (stopped caring) it after Lorwyn.
Free/reduced spells come up a couple times between the Saga untap and Cascade, and the worst (most busted) one was Tombstalker
The masques free spells saw some play but none were busted on their own (though invigorate + infect is bad, but that is on infect).
The shoals did not do that much o their own.
Even the first set of delve cards were not that busted.

Once we get into the NWO sets they pretty much do not care anymore, and do not look at eternal at all, as they would require competent developers who care about more then just Limited play. Paying attention to the past, even the obvious mistakes requires to much effort for them now, which is bad since they have proven the old saying about not learning from the past a couple times since then. It sometimes feels like they are trying for some wet dream Maro had of a completely creature focused Casual Kitchen Table Magic with high variance causing games to rely more on luck then skill/strategy, which ends up getting Magic classified as a Gambling Game and killing organized play.

[eays]

Once real Aggro becomes a thing again, you will think twice before putting Gitaxian Probe into your non-combo deck.

It's a good point Julian. It's really good in current Meta but perhaps not future ones if something causes mid range...combo...control not to be dominant forces.

[Barook]

I about crapped my pants when I saw Dig just because of the implications for my favorite pet deck (Spiral Tide). I can confirm that Dig is utterly busted in that deck and probably every other as well. I'm still waiting for WOTC to learn their lesson regarding mechanics that make spells free and/or cost a whole lot less than they should. I mean, how many more mistakes do they need to make to avoid such obvious blunders? It only takes one mistake per mechanic - every Cascade spell besides Bloodbraid Elf was balanced (Bituminous Blast) or just straight bad (pretty much everything else). But that one card wrecked two formats, finally getting the banhammer in the second. Phyrexian mana is the same story only replace Elf with Misstep.

It's not like Gitaxian Probe is much better. The card is annoying as hell, but not really banworthy. Note how nobody plays Peek, despite being an instant.

Once real Aggro becomes a thing again, you will think twice before putting Gitaxian Probe into your non-combo deck.

That one would require a good chunk of bans. Or printing hyper-aggro cards that don't go into blue decks - while still making Terminus unusable via bans.

So, basically, never?

[ahg113]

Once real Aggro becomes a thing again, you will think twice before putting Gitaxian Probe into your non-combo deck.

That one would require a good chunk of bans. Or printing hyper-aggro cards that don't go into blue decks - while still making Terminus unusable via bans.

So, basically, never?

Was unsure if original comment was sarcastic, unsure how to interpret. Barook's reply contains many shared sentiments...

[LOLWut]

Once real Aggro becomes a thing again, you will think twice before putting Gitaxian Probe into your non-combo deck.

That one would require a good chunk of bans. Or printing hyper-aggro cards that don't go into blue decks - while still making Terminus unusable via bans.

So, basically, never?

Burn, Lamb of Aggro, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.

[ahg113]

Burn, Lamb of Aggro, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.

Don't disagree, also do not think that was the intended example of 'aggro'. But yes, Burn is an aggro deck, sometimes blurred lines with combo (I disagree).

When one says aggro, Zoo and Affinity, maybe even Merfolk, are the flag bearers of choice and recognition.

So, even with Burn being a thing ever so sporadically often, G.Probe keeps on trucking. Thus, it is not the aggro answer that was being sought/contemplated.