Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
If we're done talking about Vintage...
What is the problem with banning Brainstorm? I know, heart and soul of Legacy, but give better arguments than that. For those that say adapt, what is the way* you adapt to Brainstorm?
*Not blue.
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
Because there aren't a whole bunch of restricted cards and tutors in Legacy to make Brainstorm busted enough to ban? Sure, it's overpowered and ubiquitous, but so are Tarmogoyf, Swords to Plowshares, Wasteland, Force of Will, Stoneforge Mystic, dual lands, fetchlands, and Vendilion Clique. That's kind of the point. Legacy is full of overpowered things. The time to ban something is when it centralizes the metagame around a specific strategy or directly enables a degenerate combo, not when a whole bunch of different decks are playing a broad utility card like Brainstorm or Mental Misstep (which I don't think needs to be banned, either).
Why do you need to adapt to Brainstorm? It isn't a threat. It's a filtering mechanism. Would you tell someone to adapt to Ponder?
The argument to ban Brainstorm is ridiculous. It's very much akin to the absurd argument over on Salvation to ban Sol Ring from EDH.
So the answer is: everyone should be playing Brainstorm?
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
Did I say that? Stop trolling already.
Are you running fetch-lands? Do your lands have the ability "Tap: Add U to your mana pool?"
That was easy.
If you feel compelled to "adapt" to Brainstorm without running blue, Wizards printed a gem of a card in New Phyrexia...I believe it was colorless...For 2 life it counters Brainstorm. Pretty spicy tech.
Card advantage is good so everyone that can play brainstorm should. If not brainstorm some other card advantage: dark confidant, hymn to tourach, time spiral, breakthrough, goblin ringleader, standstill, silvergill adept, careful study, loam+cycle lands, top+counterbalance are nice. But as catch all/generic card advantage goes brainstorm is usually the easiest fit into decks, but not always the best form of card advantage in this format. Please stop trying to ban brainstorm.
Spicy.
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
Forgot argothian enchantress, ad naseum and two busted ones: glimpse of nature and thoughtcast. I'm thinking brainstorm isn't the best form of card advantage.
Bstorm is card filtering, not advantage. It creates virtual card advantage because you shuffle away your worse cards, but it doesn't actually leave you up anything.
I've been liking Chains of Mephistopheles lately for the Bstorm+ancestral visions+jace meta.
Technically Brainstorm doesn't offer card advantage at all. It's card quality when paired with a shuffle effect.
I'm gonna walk through this on my fingers: casting Brainstorm puts one card from your hand into your graveyard, three from you library into your hand, then two from your hand back on top. I'm not too good with numbers, but unless you're a boss you end up with the same number of cards in hand.
I suppose it depends on how you define "card advantage?" If "my cards are now better than they just were" is card advantage, then Brainstorm is the titties. (Hell it's the titties in any case. And I love titties!)
Wait a minute! Brainstorm doesn't =card advantage? Just filtering? What is all the fuss about then?
Kids these days don't know how good they have it. Never been on the other side of a Necropotence after having your hand Mind Twisted. Spoiled! Spoiled I say! If it just filters cards, get over it.
Brainstorm- Welcome to Legacy, everybody.
On the subject of Mental Misstep again, the Meta has not fully adapted to its presence. I feel that the card does very healthy things for the format, as a whole, even if everyone is running it. It slows the format to a reasonable pace, keeps combo at bay, and allows control a chance to exist once more. I think Forsythe and goons have just been seeing the monster they created in Jace/Mystic standard popping up in Legacy tournaments. However, if you have witnessed their sad comments ( such as Lapille's suggestion of running Great Sable Stag), then you would be aware of their lack of awareness for the Legacy format. I don't think stoneblade will ever be as dominant in legacy as it was in Standard. The metagame has not been allowed reasonable time to adjust to the existence of such a card, and I would like to witness what it will become in the next year.
I guess we'll see on Monday...
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
You're kidding right?
No one thinks maybe they will ban Jace and not misstep ?
Because it really is the most ridiculous card they printed since the Urza block madness (well, maybe there's skullclamp, maybe not), and, unlike misstep, it's really a pure blue card, that provides everything you can dream of for 2UU and is extremely difficult to kill unless you play red.
The blue control shell has always been very powerful, but this card gives it absolute control over late game (CA, getting rid of useless conditionnal answers, boucing threats, controlling opponent topdecks, a kill - omg, really ?) which it should not have (bs and vision help a lot, but are not as good as bob, or as topdecking only threats because it's all you have in your deck)
Jace doesn't warp the format. Only like 2-3 decks run jace. Hardly enough for a ban.
Misstep should also not be banned.
I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific, sir. I assume that most of us picked up on the jocular tone of the post, but (assuming you're referring to my statements about Brainstorm and Card Advantage) I do in fact define card advantage as "netting additional cards in hand." When I have 5 cards in hand and cast Brainstorm, when it resolves I still have 5 cards in hand.
Perhaps your magic is stronger than mine. Perhaps we define card advantage differently and it would be helpful to agree upon a working definition. Perhaps your post actually had no constructive purpose whatsoever. Perhaps time will tell...
The term card advantage means you have an advantage with the cards in your hand over your opponents. With a card that dig three deep, able to swap your junk from your hand ans shuffle it away, you don't think that is card advantage?
It certainly hell means card advantage to me, when you get to dump 3 cards with different ones.
Even bazaar of baghdad is card advantage...draw 2 discard 3.
If you think card advantage is only the ability to get more cards in your hand, you need to revise your definition in your book.
Then you would be wrong.
Keep it civil, Mike. - zillaEven bazaar of baghdad is card advantage...draw 2 discard 3.
Might I suggest the Required Reading thread? Particularly this one?
That's been the definition of card advantage for over a decade. I don't think you're going to get anyone to change it now just because you don't like it.
If you'd like to talk about card quality, that's a different story. And a different definition. If we don't have a common vocabulary to work from, this is going to be pretty pointless (pointlesser?).
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
@avatar of shadows
What you're describing is card quality not card advantage.
Classic card advantage is always about one of two things.
1) Just straight having more cards either by trading 1 for 2 or by drawing extra cards
2) Virtual card advantage, for example running no creatures so all the creature removal spells in your opponents hand are dead cards.
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CITATION:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazin...ily/feature/60
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_advantage
Edit:
Pff took too long rereading that old wizards article >.>
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