Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
Letting non-Wizards persons vote on what to ban/unban is probably the dumbest thing I've read on these forums in nearly 10 years. Jesus Christ we've hit a new low.
You fucking hope.
I'm not excited to see a Lodestone restriction. I'll be honest and say I haven't played a ton of Vintage, but when I did, I was on Shops. The deck is very good, but you still have problems against Oath and other decks, and there are a ton of cards that blow you out, and many times you do lose to yourself.
In Vintage tournaments in paper that I played in both Canada, the States, and Europe, Shops was very good, but people packing hate still fucked up your shit.
Real question, though: If Lodestone had been a 4/3, would that have mattered enough?
Or maybe they're just right about Shops being too powerful? I mean it's a group of all plat pros and HoFers, but they're all dumb right?
I keep thinking that maybe one day this forum will get better but the last few pages and the Brainstorm Show thread have been so bad it's probably time to stop.
I completely agree. If players had this kind of control, it would be a complete unmitigated disaster.
Although there have obviously been both design mistakes and inappropriate banning/unbanning in the past, they are oddities. It is pretty easy to cherry pick through the history of the game and find the accidents made by WOTC/Hasbro. I think they have done a spectacular job, on the whole.
The strategy within the game, tournament attendance, and collectability of their products have all been on a constant upswing for almost two decades. It is really hard to argue with that level of consistent success, given the competition from other similar products and video game industries over that time.
Suggesting that there is something so wrong with the current decision making process for the banned/restricted lists that it needs a major overhaul is supremely ridiculous.
So there are two types of people responding to my idea. 1 group is just blatantly suggesting that my idea is stupid and giving no evidence as to why. The other group is giving constructive cristicism that I will debunk. The other isn't even a group, it is one person.
So by popularity contest I am assuming that you mean that you are afraid that if the voting percentage to pass a change is say 66%, a deck might get to 50% of the metagame and now 50% of people are not voting against a deck that clearly needs to be banned. Well in order to solve that problem an automatic ban metagame percentage can be issued. If a deck is 1/4th of the metagame it is automatically banned in the next announcement.
Also, why would people who don't play a format want to vote on its changes? What, you think a group would want to ruin a format for people who play it so those people move to the group's format? Well countermeasures can be taken against this issue as well. Only allowing people who play in a format's tournament a certain amount of times to vote for that format is a fix for this problem.
A democracy still has rulers.
I am happy that you are confident in your proposal. However, these are my questions to you.
It appears like your proposal is not well thought out, it is more of a general idea. I don't expect an overly specific set of rules, but some set of actual rules would be needed. What are they?
How do you intend on monitoring the vote? By that I mean how do you ensure that only "Players" can vote?
What is a Player?
How would you know whether a deck is disliked (Lantern Control, Stasis) or whether the cards are too good?
What do you think the expected turn out would be? Could a small subset of players, however you have defined that, force something to get banned simply because they vote?
Would any cards be unbannable? Dual lands, Island, FOW? Whats to stop a bunch of people who think it is funny to ban all Magic Cards. Teenagers think that type of stuff is pretty hilarious, so it would probably pass.
Could you explain why there is a need for this system?
What do you think the system will cost to maintain?
Will the voting system increase profits to Hasbro, explain how?
How will you keep the system simple enough that a new players can use it?
How will you ensure that the bans by voting benefit the tournament environment?
How will your system be able to be compared, in a qualitative or numerical way, to the one that you feel is in need of changing?
Guys the ignore list exist for a reason, there's no need to drag the shit around and smear all the room.
And how much vintage have you played? You can build good blue decks that don't easily lose to shops. Yes, you have to give up percentage points in the blue mirror. That's a normal metagaming trade-off. Or play dredge, there are lists that are naturally favored vs shop FFS. There are shops decks that beat the mirror but are worse against the blue decks. Oath is good vs shops. If you keep jamming the same blue cantrip pile and complaining, I don't think you have tried.
I play pretty regularly, and Oath at that. Making it beatable doesn't change the fact that Shops is still too strong and that it took up way too much of the meta for Wizards' taste. All I've been able to gather besides this ridiculous poster saying we should vote on bans is that the B/R list must make blue suffer or it's a total waste and magic is dying and will be dead because of blue every 3 months. Prison decks on the other hand are the epitome of Magic and should be pushed more.
So in your new democracy, surely we have the ability to vote away our right to make changes and assign them back to Wizards?
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