All B/R update speculation.

[thefringthing]

And Werebear was a big deal. 2004-era Type 1.5 says nothing about Legacy in 2016.

[Zilla]

And Werebear was a big deal. 2004-era Type 1.5 says nothing about Legacy in 2016.

It's certainly not definitive, but to say it says nothing is just wrong. It has a history in the format. It wasn't arbitrarily placed on the ban list - it was put there because it allowed a single archetype to maintain a stranglehold on the format for three years. Have things changed since then? Obviously. But you're still talking about one of the most powerful cards the format has ever seen.

[ironclad8690]

I'd trust Zilla, I think he was actually playing when legacy split off from vintage.

[Fatal]

Don't forget that Mana Drain would give you mana even if spell is casted with alternative cost, today Legacy still running (and will be) FoW, Delve cards, Phyrexian mana etc..

[Dice_Box]

That's um... Common sense.

[Crimhead]

That's um... Common sense.

I think "sense" has gone from common, to uncommon, to mythic rare.

[Dark Ritual]

People always act as though counterspell is a fair and reasonable magic card when it doesn't give you mana. It really isn't. Being able to stop almost any spell in the game for UU is one of the most powerful things WotC has ever created. Oh and this one gives you mana as well/the most broken thing in magic is fast mana as has been proven by black lotus, dark ritual, LED, etc. etc. Unban mana drain. I dare you. You may not get wrecked by it often since it will skyrocket to $2K/playset the moment its unbanned, but you'll dread facing the player(s) at your LGS who own 4 drains.

[Dice_Box]

I have seen that argument made before and I am not entirely sure I agree with it. Sure, Counterspell is powerful, but it's the least common of the counters in my box to be used. While I am sure if you added on Mana to the effect it would see more play, I am not sure that an large amount of decks are interested in trading Spell Pierce for Colourless mana.

As for the price, it's not on the list. That's a solvable issue.

If it was unbanned tomorrow I would sell my copies not play with them. I don't feel I would end up regretting that choice either unless I planed to loop Tops to make Monks.

[maharis]

I could see Drain being reprinted in Eternal Masters then unbanned. I don't know if that's a good thing. I could see Drain being tough to play against, but really, any deck that wants to play Drain is going to be really color-intensive to the point where a bunch of colorless mana isn't going to just help out of hand. Jace is the obvious winner, and it helps hardcast Terminus, and in UBx control or midrange decks you could drain into an early Angler or something).

Actually now that I think about it Drain in S&T could be too much. First of all, you could drain into a hardcast Eldrazi -- maybe not necessarily Emrakul, but they're all pretty brutal. But even then, since S&T and Sneak require only one colored mana each, getting free colorless which allows you to cast your combo piece while holding up colored mana for a counter war (or a sneak activation) seems really good.

[Finn]

As a player who has actually faced Mana Drain in tournaments, I can tell you that the mana boost is completely unfair. You feel giddy or robbed depending upon which side you are sitting. It sucks to counter Ancestral Recall or something, but then it is basically just a Counterspell. That's not exactly bad.

[sjmcc13]

Actually now that I think about it Drain in S&T could be too much. First of all, you could drain into a hardcast Eldrazi -- maybe not necessarily Emrakul, but they're all pretty brutal. But even then, since S&T and Sneak require only one colored mana each, getting free colorless which allows you to cast your combo piece while holding up colored mana for a counter war (or a sneak activation) seems really good.

The problem there is you have to have just won a counter war to have the drain mana, so saving mana for counters is mostly a moot point.

As to the eldrazi, if the game has gone on long enough for you to drop any eldrazi or other big expensive beat-stick a S&T deck is trying to put into play, then the game has already gone on to long.

Though it would help drop and activate Sneak attack on one turn, since it could give you the 2 red and 3 other mana on turn 3, or enable them to cast SnT with only 2 mana available.

The only current major deck I can see easily slotting mana drain is Miracles, to help cast Jace, terminus and possbly even hard cast an Entreat to start the beat down a little earlier.

The biggest effect I can see Drain having is enabling dedicated control decks to start their offence earlier in the game, which is probably a good thing since those decks tend to be the ones everyone complains about being to slow and boring, giving them an option to do stuff earlier might help, though the question is would that style become to strong.

[Lemnear]

Sorry lads, but discussing Mana Drains potential simply how on how it fits into Miracles or the like is ridiculous.

[sroncor1]

I usually stay out of posting in here because the threads go off the rails so fast. But anyone who thinks that Mana Drain would be safe in Legacy has clearly never played with or against the card. The possible tempo gain is enormous, and yes on the surface just saving mana on Jace doesn't seem to insane, there are other deck strategies that would most likely open. The blue shell is already getting to levels that if this were vintage, restrictions would be coming, and allowing cheaper mentors, planeswalkers and other high end cards that they traditionally need to build up to would be a bad place to be. An unbanning that would possibly help strengthen 2-3 of the already decks to beat seems dumb not to mention the possible addition of an additional control deck into the format.


Seth

[Megadeus]

We need more talk about how Balance is fair and should be allowed as a 4-of

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

It's a symmetrical effect and its in its name for gods sake

Clear a fair and acceptable magical card.

[Anen]

And White needs some love too, stop talking about Blue.

[MasterBlaster]

And White needs some love too, stop talking about Blue.

At least they gave us back Land Tax. Should have never been banned.

But I really want Shahrazad unbanned. Played it as a single card in my old WW deck just because.

[Finn]

Honestly, Shahrazad in burn is amazing.

[rufus]

Honestly, Shahrazad in burn is amazing.

We all know you just want to keep nesting sub-games using burning wish. The card does present something of a logistics concern. It's not nearly as silly as in the earlier version of the rules when there was no exile zone.

[Dice_Box]

I want to see Dragon and Shahrazad in the same deck, just so that way we can see some really fucked up match slips.