All B/R update speculation.

[lordofthepit]

You guys are getting trolled.

[TRS-Jo]

Paired with shuffle effects, Brainstorm is the single most objectively powerful card in the format, bar none. Merfolk is typically mono-blue and therefore does not run shuffle effects. Even when it does, its extraordinarily high redundancy strongly reduces the need for card filtering, hence the reason it typically doesn't run Brainstorm.

Essentially every single other deck in the format that runs blue plays 4 Brainstorm. It really is that good. It allows for decks like Team America to only run 8 win conditions and still remain one of the most aggressive decks in the format. It literally makes every single deck it gets put into more consistent, and consistency wins games.

Blue is played more than every other color in the format and it's not because it's "just popular." Or maybe it is, but it's popular for the same reason that Google is popular. Because it's the "best."

Brainstorm is absolutely the reason that blue is dominant. When constructing a deck in Legacy, you have to have a very good reason not to start your list with 4x Brainstorm, followed by 4x Misstep, 3-4x Daze, 4x FoW. This is more true now than ever, and only continues to be more true as time goes on. Blue is getting stronger in this format over time and other colors are getting weaker.

It's not at all hard to argue that this is stifling (no pun intended) to innovation, particularly if blue continues to trend upwards as it has without fail since the inception of the format. When people say that blue is dominant and that they think it's a problem, this is what they mean.

As an aside, I think the trend is disturbing, but not so much so that action is necessary. As you pointed out, there are plenty of viable non-blue decks in the format. As long as that's true, I don't think action needs to be taken. I also think that banning Brainstorm would be a real mistake, and should only ever be seriously considered if blue is in literally every competitive deck, because the player backlash to a format without Brainstorm would be severe.

It's definitely the best card in the format, and is unquestionably the reason for blue's dominance, but it's also easy to acquire, easy to splash, requires some amount of skill, is fun to play with, and doesn't feel terribly unfair to play against.

Absolutely agree with you.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I think it's hilarious that you guys are crying over how unfair Misstep is because it is making all your severely overpowered 1cmc spells actually require risk to play. "Oh my God I totally would have won that game if he hadn't paid 2 life to counter my Aether Vial which I played before he got to lay his first land. Then I would have been able to drop creatures uncounterably for zero mana at instant speed every turn for the rest of the game, man Mental Misstep is so unfair!!!"

"Oh man, I would have totally won that game if my one mana answer to every creature every printed without shroud or protection from everything would have resolved, but he paid one blue and countered it, obviously Mental Misstep is the problem here, because there totally should not be an easy answer to such a fair card!!!"

"This is bullshit, I would have won that game if he hadn't paid 2 life to counter my turn 1 Wild Nacatl! I would have swung in for 6 damage before he even laid his third land for my one mana. Obviously Mental Misstep is broken here but my 3/3 one drop is perfectly okay and the only fair counter for it turn one should be two cards + 1 life."

"Man, what the fuck. I should have won vs. that Zoo deck but he ran Mental Misstep. That is so broken!!! He's not even a blue deck!!! I demand that Mental Misstep be banned so that all non-blue decks return to a 70/30 matchup for combo because that is what's fair!!!"

Isn't that really what this is all about? Of course most decks are running Misstep right now. If you guys are going to keep relying on completely overpowered one drops to win the game why the hell wouldn't people run Misstep? It's a strong card, and it's a really good card, but the only reason it's a really good card is because there are so many completely undercosted cards at one mana in Legacy. So what is really more unfair in the end, the card that only counters one drops or the one drops that do things like answer 99% of the creatures in the game for one mana, swing for a Lightning Bolt's worth of damage a turn, filter the worst 2 cards in your hand to the top of your deck, allow you to discard a Dredge outlet every turn, allow you to rearrange the top 3 cards of your deck every turn, allow you to drop a Goblin for free any time they connect, and the list goes on.

[Gui]

I disagree with one thing here: Even without Brainstorm in the format, blue would still be the most played color because FoW is the best catch all solution. The single only other color with similar solutions is black, with discards. White can answer every kind of permanent, black can discard them, but the absolute catch all is FoW. Maybe the inexistance of Brainstorm would make blue less powerfull, but would still be the most played, imo.

[Fatal]

I'm actually playing MM in non-blue based deck (middle-range). I think MM should be banned.

Here is a reasons:

MM is free mana - no drawback time walk in turn 1. Paying 2 life is just to small drawback. So when playing for example mirror - guy who has more MM on hand and resolve his one mana drop get timewalk over opponent without any consequents on his mana involve, so he doesn't lost tempo (as for daze) and stops opponent. More over it's not dead card lately since Legacy mana curve is all around one mana drops, some of them are utilities, CQ, manadrops, removal or combo parts so mostly never dead lately.

It took down many archetypes down - Goblins/Spiral/Dredge etc and force them to use (mostly not all) to change strategy or playing Mental Missteps with them self - that isn't healthy situation force decks that doesn't play blue to pack cards to its 75 to have an answer for the same card.

It doesn't have any conditions to play it like island in play or similar so EVERY deck can run it. This mean that in near future if situation doesn't change every decklist using 1cc spells (90% of decks) will start from 4 Mental Misstep - this is enough reason to ban this card.

[Nicola]

Does anyone know if the B&R list will be tomorrow (Monday 19) or the day after tomorrow (Tuesday 20)?

[I am the brainwasher]

September 20th (so, the day after tomorrow...dunn dunn duuuuuunnnn) as far as I was informed here earlier.

[Pich]

Damn stop saying High Tide is dead, its just not played but it still beats Stoneblade and NO RUG..

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I think it's hilarious that you guys are crying over how unfair Misstep is because it is making all your severely overpowered 1cmc spells actually require risk to play. "Oh my God I totally would have won that game if he hadn't paid 2 life to counter my Aether Vial which I played before he got to lay his first land. Then I would have been able to drop creatures uncounterably for zero mana at instant speed every turn for the rest of the game, man Mental Misstep is so unfair!!!"

"Oh man, I would have totally won that game if my one mana answer to every creature every printed without shroud or protection from everything would have resolved, but he paid one blue and countered it, obviously Mental Misstep is the problem here, because there totally should not be an easy answer to such a fair card!!!"

"This is bullshit, I would have won that game if he hadn't paid 2 life to counter my turn 1 Wild Nacatl! I would have swung in for 6 damage before he even laid his third land for my one mana. Obviously Mental Misstep is broken here but my 3/3 one drop is perfectly okay and the only fair counter for it turn one should be two cards + 1 life."

"Man, what the fuck. I should have won vs. that Zoo deck but he ran Mental Misstep. That is so broken!!! He's not even a blue deck!!! I demand that Mental Misstep be banned so that all non-blue decks return to a 70/30 matchup for combo because that is what's fair!!!"

Isn't that really what this is all about? Of course most decks are running Misstep right now. If you guys are going to keep relying on completely overpowered one drops to win the game why the hell wouldn't people run Misstep? It's a strong card, and it's a really good card, but the only reason it's a really good card is because there are so many completely undercosted cards at one mana in Legacy. So what is really more unfair in the end, the card that only counters one drops or the one drops that do things like answer 99% of the creatures in the game for one mana, swing for a Lightning Bolt's worth of damage a turn, filter the worst 2 cards in your hand to the top of your deck, allow you to discard a Dredge outlet every turn, allow you to rearrange the top 3 cards of your deck every turn, allow you to drop a Goblin for free any time they connect, and the list goes on.

Posts like this are unhelpful because power level is relative and abstractly saying that doing good things is not necessarily the same as a card being too good is meaningless. To determine if a card is "too" good we have to decide how we're defining that term and then look at where a card falls relative to that.

[Rizso]

Banning Mental misstep will destroy more archetypes then printing of the card alone did. Changing strategi should be in every decks evolution.

[DragoFireheart]

To determine if a card is "too" good we have to decide how we're defining that term and then look at where a card falls relative to that.

Well that begs the question now doesn't it?

How would you define as too good? A high representation in the Top 8? Abstract power? Relative power? Some other criteria?

[Royal Ass.]

The only thing I don't like about Mental Misstep is the shitty art work and the new card frame. I like the card and its affect on the format and don't think it needs to be banned. Even if they are considering banning it they should give it at least another cycle to see how the format adapts.

I wouldn't mind seeing Stoneforge gone though. It's a cheap tutor and it cheats on mana and give unaccountability. But most of all I'm just sick of the card.

I also wouldn't mind seeing NA gone. it also is a tutor and mana cheat. Those both seem to be criteria that WTC considers when banning cards.

[JustPAT4]

Well that begs the question now doesn't it?

How would you define [a card] as too good? A high representation in the Top 8? Abstract power? Relative power? Some other criteria?

I'm hoping for a legitimate answer on this front as well.

I'm very much on board with Holmes sentiment when he argues the only reason MM is ubiquitous is because players run 1 drops that are overpowered in relation to their cost and effect when compared against all other legal cards that offer similar effects. Cards that, on the draw, otherwise can only be responded to by discarding 2 cards and paying 1 life.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Posts like this are unhelpful because power level is relative and abstractly saying that doing good things is not necessarily the same as a card being too good is meaningless. To determine if a card is "too" good we have to decide how we're defining that term and then look at where a card falls relative to that.

Yeah I get that I was reaching a little calling Swords "too good" because calling something too good implies that it should be banned. Still Swords is a one mana answer to almost any creature in the format. I think I could fit all the relevant creatures it doesn't deal with in a twitter post. Either way when people start complaining about Misstep and one of the rallying cries is that it counters Swords/Vial/Nacatl/random-combo-accelerator you have to ask if Mental Misstep is any less fair than the cards it is going to be countering 90% of the time.

It's like Legacy players are addicted to using extremely powerful 1 mana cards as a crutch and are blind to what Misstep means for the format because they can't just run the same line of play they did 5 months ago when having a spell cost 1 mana was nothing but an advantage (except for Top/Balance which was on the decline).

[joemauer]

Well that begs the question now doesn't it?

How would you define as too good? A high representation in the Top 8? Abstract power? Relative power? Some other criteria?

What makes a card too good? Perhaps when the best answer against 'card in question' is your own copy of 'card in question', then maybe the 'card in question' is too powerful.

Hmmm now what card could be a 'card in question' in our current legacy format? I will give you a hint, it is not brainstorm.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

What makes a card too good? Perhaps when the best answer against 'card in question' is your own copy of 'card in question', then maybe the 'card in question' is too powerful.

Hmmm now what card could be a 'card in question' in our current legacy format? I will give you a hint, it is not brainstorm.

Tendrils of Agony?

[DragoFireheart]

What makes a card too good? Perhaps when the best answer against 'card in question' is your own copy of 'card in question', then maybe the 'card in question' is too powerful.

Hmmm now what card could be a 'card in question' in our current legacy format? I will give you a hint, it is not brainstorm.

Well, for that card, there are multiple solutions:

A- Run your own as you said. (Mirror matches, Merfolk)

B- Run a redunant amount of 1cmc spells. (Zoo)

C- Run a deck that don't need 1cmc spells. (Stompy)

D- Run decks that shit all over those blue decks and don't care about a stupid counterspell. (Rock, mid-range, etc)

Just the fact I came up with three solutions beyond "run your own" should be evidence enough that the card in question is not broken.

[joemauer]

What makes a card too good? Perhaps when the best answer against 'card in question' is your own copy of 'card in question', then maybe the 'card in question' is too powerful.

Hmmm now what card could be a 'card in question' in our current legacy format? I will give you a hint, it is not brainstorm.

Note best answer. Sure you could play a deck that doesn't worry about the card, storm used to eat up survival/vengevine, should Survival of the Fittest have been kept in Legacy?

There is something wrong when the best answer to a card is the card itself. Force of Will isn't the best answer to Force of Will. It is always situational what the best answer to FoW is. It counterspells for free but with the drawback of card disadvantage. MM has no card disadvantage and any deck can run it. So the easiest way to stop MM if it is hindering you, is to run your own. Or just run a new deck, like stoneblade or NO.

[DragoFireheart]

Note best answer.

- I did note that.

There is something wrong when the best answer to a card is the card itself.

- NOW you are making assumptions about MMS, though I do agree with that statement in a general sense.

Force of Will isn't the best answer to Force of Will. It is always situational what the best answer to FoW is. It counterspells for free but with the drawback of card disadvantage. MM has no card disadvantage and any deck can run it. So the easiest way to stop MM if it is hindering you, is to run your own. Or just run a new deck, like stoneblade or NO.

- And have we explored the other options fully to know for sure that running MMS to stop MMS is the answer? Also, comparing MMS to SotF is like comparing a well made Spartan shield to a nuclear bomb: the only thing comparable is they are both used for fighting stuff.

[joemauer]

The best answers to SotF:

1: Play extirpate(black exclusive)

2: Play deck that doesn't care about SotF(fast combo)

3: Play SotF in your own deck.

Answers two and three sound like the answers you gave to battle MM.