All B/R update speculation.

[dontbiteitholmes]

- This is what WotC tried to do with Mental Misstep but that obviously failed in their eyes. If MMS hit only instant and sorcery cards it would have been fine.

Yeah you pretty much summed up exactly what I said in that wall of text that no one is going to read.

[DragoFireheart]

Mmmm... NOTHING needs to be banned right now:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/met...?format=Legacy

Look at that curve. Looks like a very healthy and varied meta. As much as I miss MMS, looks like it going was good for Legacy after all.

[Rizso]

Right now i dont believe in any legacy ban. I would love to see cards that can make combo deck for aggro decks a bit less unfavored. As well punishing blue decks more.

Examples:

New Hatebear 1W 2/2
Martyr - Sacrifice or Discard this card from your hand: Name a card, you gain protection from the named card until end of the turn. Draw a card if sacrificed.

Antistorm creature 1/1 R
Whenever a player casts a nonecreature spell, put a charged counter on this creature and then this creature deals 1 damage to that player for each charged counter on this creature.
At the beginning of next end step, remove all charged counters on this creature.

First it only affected opponents but affecting all players makes it more interesting to play with, thought that is gonna favor blue decks.

Thoughtblast B Instant
Until end of turn, if an opponent would draw a card with a spell or an abilty, he or she draws a card and then discards a card instead.
Cycling: B

Would like to have have Split second on it but think thats to powerful.

:D There is still alot of territory to print cards that can punish legacy combos and blue decks without ruin the balance in standard.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Right now i dont believe in any legacy ban. I would love to see cards that can make combo deck for aggro decks a bit less unfavored. As well punishing blue decks more.

Antistorm creature 1/1 R
Whenever a player casts a nonecreature spell, put a charged counter on this creature and then this creature deals 1 damage to that player for each charged counter on this creature.
At the beginning of next end step, remove all charged counters on this creature.

I was just thinking about this last night and I came to the conclusion they missed a golden opportunity to make a werewolf to get at storm combo.

Anti-Storm Human R
If an opponent has played three or more spells this turn flip ~This card~.
1/1
/Flipped/
Anti-Storm Werewolf
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, if they have already played another spell this turn ~This card~ deals 3 damage to them.
3/2

[KobeBryan]

Right now i dont believe in any legacy ban. I would love to see cards that can make combo deck for aggro decks a bit less unfavored. As well punishing blue decks more.

Examples:

New Hatebear 1W 2/2
Martyr - Sacrifice or Discard this card from your hand: Name a card, you gain protection from the named card until end of the turn. Draw a card if sacrificed.

Antistorm creature 1/1 R
Whenever a player casts a nonecreature spell, put a charged counter on this creature and then this creature deals 1 damage to that player for each charged counter on this creature.
At the beginning of next end step, remove all charged counters on this creature.

First it only affected opponents but affecting all players makes it more interesting to play with, thought that is gonna favor blue decks.

Thoughtblast B Instant
Until end of turn, if an opponent would draw a card with a spell or an abilty, he or she draws a card and then discards a card instead.
Cycling: B

Would like to have have Split second on it but think thats to powerful.

:D There is still alot of territory to print cards that can punish legacy combos and blue decks without ruin the balance in standard.

Black has chains for thoughtblast. And that card is hardly ever used.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I still don't understand why aggro players feel they're entitled to beat Storm Combo. I'm a storm player, and I don't feel entitled to beat Team America or Stifle-Nought or ReAnimator. I might take games or even matches from them once in a while, but they are BAD matchups, and I lose the vast majority of the time. Every deck has bad matchups.

[DragoFireheart]

I still don't understand why aggro players feel they're entitled to beat Storm Combo. I'm a storm player, and I don't feel entitled to beat Team America or Stifle-Nought or ReAnimator. I might take games or even matches from them once in a while, but they are BAD matchups, and I lose the vast majority of the time. Every deck has bad matchups.

- You didn't mention countertop.

Anyways yeah, every deck has bad matchups. The moment a deck doesn't have bad matchups, bannings occur.

[Admiral_Arzar]

- You didn't mention countertop.

Anyways yeah, every deck has bad matchups. The moment a deck doesn't have bad matchups, bannings occur.

I only failed to mention it because it doesn't get played much anymore - the other decks are more recent examples of abysmal matchups for combo.

[DragoFireheart]

I only failed to mention it because it doesn't get played much anymore - the other decks are more recent examples of abysmal matchups for combo.

- Which matchup do you find most difficult?

[joemauer]

I think Team America & certain countertop builds are the worst for storm players. Oh yeah and stiflenaught with counterbalance is rough, but much easier when stiflenaught doesn't play that card.

[Admiral_Arzar]

- Which matchup do you find most difficult?

Probably Dreadstill, of all decks. It combines Counter-Top, an extremely fast clock, Stifle + Wasteland, and a lot of countermagic. Team America is also extremely bad, as Stifle + Waste + discard + Counters + clock is very rough. Not the Gerry T BUG list BTW, I'm talking about the original tempo Team America list.

[GGoober]

Countertop is also actually not as devastating against storm than Tempo decks with a clock. The only thing that Countertop has an edge over Tempo decks over Storm is against Spiral Tide/High Tide because those decks don't combo off on a fundamental turn of 1-3, so Countertop can be assembled before then.

[Sims]

Black has chains for thoughtblast. And that card is hardly ever used.

Doesn't really hurt Ritual based storm combo. Most of those use Ad Nauseum as their primary engine, and AdN puts the cards into your hand, you don't draw them. So neither Chains nor the made up card actually are useful there.

[sligh16]

I still don't understand why aggro players feel they're entitled to beat Storm Combo. I'm a storm player, and I don't feel entitled to beat Team America or Stifle-Nought or ReAnimator. I might take games or even matches from them once in a while, but they are BAD matchups, and I lose the vast majority of the time. Every deck has bad matchups.

Personally I don't want Wizards to print a card that singlehandly wins the game against storm combo and that could be played by any non-blue deck, that would be awful for the format. But looking at the hate bears of white, it would be nice if red and green could get some efficient ways to interact with storm combo, not drastically winning 80% of games, but instead at least giving a chance to interact rewarding skill. As DragoFireheart said, Misstep would have been fair if it hit only instant and sorceries, but, I'm not completely convinced about that hipotetical card. Designing such card, and still keeping the balance of the format would be something to be praised by. Maybe Wizards is still trying.

[Dark Ritual]

Not to mention IGG and PiF don't draw cards either and against aggro decks without countermagic I usually just IGG loop for the win. That doesn't draw cards. Thoughtblast would only be good in response to brainstorm or sensei's top, or meditate or time spiral but time spiral combo will have a counter for it when they go off unless they have to go off very early.

The meta is healthy. I loved how much people thought MM was good for the format when it stagnated it like survival did and made blue decks the best decks in the format without a doubt.

[Rizso]

Black has chains for thoughtblast. And that card is hardly ever used.

You can never surprice someone with Chains like you can with Thoughtblast. Also manacost makes a big diffrence.

[Zilla]

I loved how much people thought MM was good for the format when it stagnated it like survival did and made blue decks the best decks in the format without a doubt.

Stagnated it how? The "top" decks in the format held that position for all of a month. A predictable metagame is not necessarily a stagnant one.

Stagnation occurs when the best decks remain the best decks for months or years at a time. While Misstep was present, the top decks were changing month to month as the metagame adapted to them.

Blue decks are still the best decks in the format without a doubt.

Misstep was neither objectively good nor bad for meta; it simply made it something different than it was before. Some people liked it, some people didn't. Personally, I prefer the meta without it - I just think it's wrong to claim Misstep was universally bad, because it wasn't.

[DragoFireheart]

Team America is also extremely bad, as Stifle + Waste + discard + Counters + clock is very rough. Not the Gerry T BUG list BTW, I'm talking about the original tempo Team America list.

- Discard and Counters: one of the reasons I traded my Goyfs for Underground Seas.

[GGoober]

- Discard and Counters: one of the reasons I traded my Goyfs for Underground Seas.

How do you play Team America without Goyfs then? :/

I guess you can play Dreadstalker :P

And btw, when Tempo decks do start picking up again, the meta will adapt easily to beat it again.

[Zilla]

How do you play Team America without Goyfs then? :/

Hello, Delver!