View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

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192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #1641

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    Pithing Needle is still highly effective against SotF. Backed by Lavamancer = no mana dorks for you!

    (I wouldn't even touch Vengevine if SotF was unbanned. I'd go for Turbo Survival Elves :)
    Good point, and again if you go back and look at the top 16 lists the people crying about SotF never even packed Pithing Needle. Core blue players just hate packing removal.

    I remember when control decks packed removal/defense like this:

    4 Disenchant
    2 Moat
    4 Swords to Plowshares


  2. #1642
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    It's wierd but having Brainstorm banned gives me that feeling that the following cards will be acceptable in the format:

    Mystical Tutor
    Survival of the Fittest
    Land Tax
    Frantic Search
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  3. #1643
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    It's wierd but having Brainstorm banned gives me that feeling that the following cards will be acceptable in the format:

    Mystical Tutor
    Survival of the Fittest
    Land Tax
    Frantic Search
    I'd like imperial seal/vampiric (imperial only if reprinted) before mystical unbanned honestly. Vampiric is not that better than mystical in combo when the only cards you can't get in combo are lands (usually irrilevant) and LED (crucial) (there's also, arguably, xantid in TES but whatever). Add to that that vampiric isn't blue (relevant for hivemind/painter and reanimator that play ~20/22 blue cards), cost life (relevant for ANT and reanimator) and that can be played in rock-like decks where they can fetch for silver bullets meaning it isn't a card only for combo (i'd love to play vampiric in rock like decks with singletons like bojuka bogs or smth to fetch for, also monoB reanimator old-school ftw). It would probably end being rebanned anyway, but at least it wouldn't be one-dimensional as mystical would.

    That said, i'd love to see an instant B demonic intent or plunge into darkness printed.

  4. #1644
    Psilovibin
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Do you really want everyone and his mom to be playing Vampiric Tutor just to counter play what the opponent searches for with their own Vampiric Tutor?
    Luck is a residue of design.



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  5. #1645
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    What about Demonic Consultation?
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  6. #1646
    Psilovibin
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I'd play it in storm combo in a heartbeat. I think it would be pretty powerful if LED were still legal. In SI it would be so dope. Belcher would probably play it as well... and ANT/TES variants.
    Luck is a residue of design.



    I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
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  7. #1647
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Consultation is really, really fukin good, obv statement, i know, but the card puts it into hand at instant speed for 1 mana. We had it unrestricted at a point on MTGO Classic and it makes the fair decks totally unfair. Think of decks like Team America that have all spells as 4 ofs and it becomes frustrating to play against a deck that answers everything at any given time. I think it is the best tutor for decks without a lot of singeltons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Respect my shine bitch!

  8. #1648
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Demonic for B? What about no?

  9. #1649
    Psilovibin
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    Consultation is really, really fukin good, obv statement, i know, but the card puts it into hand at instant speed for 1 mana. We had it unrestricted at a point on MTGO Classic and it makes the fair decks totally unfair. Think of decks like Team America that have all spells as 4 ofs and it becomes frustrating to play against a deck that answers everything at any given time. I think it is the best tutor for decks without a lot of singeltons.
    Yeah the reason this game and format are fantastic is because magic is like a real time chess game (because of the stack) but its not a standardized chess board; the board develops as the game goes on and you get to pick your pieces before you even sit down. If all the pieces are queens and rooks then what happens to the game? I'd say it can almost be as generic as checkers at that point, which is exactly why we need a banned and restricted list. Its not necessarily to punish the best deck builders are put down the best cards but to maintain the uniqueness of why people play Legacy in the first place.

    The better tutors we have access to, the more decks will revolve around those tutors. Even without bombs like LED, decks will still gravitate toward cards that massively improve consistency AND real-time response options. Brainstorm is actually a perfect example; decks gravitate toward blue because Force of Will makes storm combo slow down (integral part of the format, especially post-AdN) and play protection while Brainstorm allows the deck to quickly throw back unwanted cards for something to take advantage of tempo plays. I mean is Brainstorm REALLY a psuedo-Ancestral Recall when you can play fetchlands to throw away useless cards? Sure it doesn't give you card advantage but U for the best card quality instant speed filter we have access to is just about as close as we will ever get in Legacy to a Power 9.
    Luck is a residue of design.



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    Expect me or die. I play SI.

  10. #1650

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    when is next b&r announcement ?

  11. #1651
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard_of_gore View Post
    when is next b&r announcement ?
    Dec. 20th, I believe.
    "I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
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  12. #1652

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    2nd best tutor ever. Unlikely to come off the list EVAR.

  13. #1653
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Consultation is close to being the best tutor ever when able to play 4ofs, it was a powerhouse when in extended for many years ago played 4 Demonic consults, 4 dark rituals, 4 necro. Its really close to the power of demonic tutors when you are allowed to play 4 of majority of cards in your deck. Mystical Tutor and Vampiric Tutor would go of the banlist before Consultation would.

  14. #1654
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    When is the next banned/restricted list update happening? December 2nd?
    Quote Originally Posted by thefringthing View Post
    Dec. 20th, I believe.
    Read thread plz.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  15. #1655

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    Read thread plz.
    I really don't know how I missed that.

  16. #1656

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    In 12 days.. (in order of decreasing probability)

    1 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Brainstorm
    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Entomb
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSettler View Post
    Jesus H Cardsheet died for your NFC sins.

  17. #1657
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    More like:

    1 - Nothing
    2 - Mind twist unbanned, random river of words on why this useless card still matter
    3 - Land Tax unbanned, wall of text of why this card will break legacy and then see 0 copies in all T8 of 2012 tournaments
    4 - Black Vise unbanned, wizards say this is the most insane decision they ever made when the unbanning of time spiral is 10 times more relevant
    5 - Brainstorm banned, because wotc apparently hate blue but print flying nacatls for U and flash eternal witnesses for 1U

  18. #1658
    Cobra Kai Sensie
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by death View Post
    In 12 days.. (in order of decreasing probability)

    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    Didn't you hear? Tom LaPille's gone so you might as well move that to 10+ where it currently belongs.
    big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR

    Don't disrespect my dojo dude...

    Sweep the leg!

  19. #1659
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    More like:

    1: Brainstorm banned, because they we can justify it due to polls/data/analysis and want to pull players towards the Modern-format.

    2: Earthcraft unbanned, bla bla bla, we make a teaser out of the most irrelevant card. Ever.

    3: "Land Tax unbanned, wall of text of why this card will break legacy and then see 0 copies in all T8 of 2012 tournaments" - Gheizen64

    4: Profit



    No conspiracy theory included but I guess thats what is going to happen, even it should be looking like THIS:



    1: Show and Tell banned. Explanation why Magic isnt about decks that require the IQ of an drunken monkey and that this is the reason why Reanimator cant be hated out effectiveley. Plus beeing the most redicolous 2 card-combo-piece and rofl why Earthcraft was banned while S&T beeing legal.

    2: Snapcaster Mage banned. Apologize that they even thought about this card beeing blue and had the impudence to really let that happen.

    3: Earthcraft & Landtax unbanned. All hail the kitchentable!

    4: Break the reserved list and give away FNM-promos that are worth to waste your friday night for, turning gaudy cards in front of the most bizarre people instead of tapping something for real... .
    In response...Hypothek!

  20. #1660
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher View Post
    No conspiracy theory included but I guess thats what is going to happen, even it should be looking like THIS:

    1: Show and Tell banned. Explanation why Magic isnt about decks that require the IQ of an drunken monkey and that this is the reason why Reanimator cant be hated out effectiveley. Plus beeing the most redicolous 2 card-combo-piece and rofl why Earthcraft was banned while S&T beeing legal.

    2: Snapcaster Mage banned. Apologize that they even thought about this card beeing blue and had the impudence to really let that happen.

    3: Earthcraft & Landtax unbanned. All hail the kitchentable!

    4: Break the reserved list and give away FNM-promos that are worth to waste your friday night for, turning gaudy cards in front of the most bizarre people instead of tapping something for real... .
    Win. I lol'd at "IQ of a drunken monkey." That reminds me, I need to sell my Show and Tells...not because I think it'll be banned, but because I hate the card. Completely agree with #2 as well.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

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