I don't think some of these cards should have been unbanned.
I like unbannings & a few others (LT, perhaps even BV, EC, MT, GM etc) may be unbanned next time.
I think the list is perfect right now, but nothing more should be unbanned in the future.
I couldn't care less about the banned list.
I just want to take a quick flash poll, before decklists start popping up what the reaction of the legacy community to the changes is.
The vote is public by the way. If some crazy combo pops up and destroys legacy, I don't want a bunch of people complaining that Wizards should've seen it coming if they didn't see it coming either.
Frankly, I see no problem with having Land Tax, Frantic Search, Illusionary Mask, Black Vise, Earthcraft, Mind Twist, Windfall AND Grim Monolith come off of the banned list. Atleast temporarily till we figure out if any of those cards actually are broken and which are just good, and which are outright unplayable junk.
Btw, the 100 character limit forced me to append the second poll option but it should read...
"I like the unbannings and I think a few other cards (Land Tax, Illusionary Mask perhaps even Frantic Search, Windfall, Black Vise, Earthcraft, Mind Twist, and Grim Monolith) should be unbanned next time."
Last edited by Clark Kant; 09-18-2009 at 04:11 PM.
We could have a new deck archetype that runs Dream Halls. Also Reanimation decks could be the next big thing. Staxx, maybe Affinity and Dredge decks definitely got some boost.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forumsOriginally Posted by Kyle
I'm actually surprised they did something besides the predictable "no changes" we see 4 times a year. More surprising is the cards they chose to unban, MetalWorker and Entomb are cards I expected to stay banned for a long time especially with weaker cards like Land Tax and Mind Twist remaining banned. I was also expecting more than a paragraph from Tom LaPille explaining the changes but whatever.
I know. It's like they had a lottery for the best candidates and the forementioned 3 got drawn.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Yes, those three choices seem random.
Other than the five other candidates I mentioned above (Black Vise, Earthcraft, Mind Twist, Grim Monolith and Land Tax), is there anything else that you think would be safe to unban.
Would Frantic Search be safe to unban? Aside from Solidarity, what decks would play the card? And if solidarity becomes slightly more viable, I don't see any thing wrong with that.
I can't believe I forgot to mention Illusionary Mask. There is no good reason at all why this card shouldn't come off of the banned list.
Is Memory Jar safe? Unless we see WelderStax emerge as a force in the next few months which seems EXTREMELY unlikely, I dont see any problems with unbanning it.
I'm 90% sure that Oath of Druids, Windfall and Tolarian Academy shouldn't come off of the list just because they're powerful effects. But I'm also fairly sure that modern legacy could handle them, atleast the latter two, without much disruption.
It would benefit legacy to have a banned list consisting of only ante cards, the very most unbalanced cards and the cards that would clearly wreck the format, and nothing else beyond that be banned.
Having such a list would really distinguish us as a format from Vintage even more.
I think it's banned at the moment purely because of the wording. No-one understands the card if they don't already know what it does.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
I doubt the card would even see play, not when you have Stifle, Trickbind and Vision Charm to bring Dreadnought into play, so I don't see that being a reason for concern.
Just tell newbs that ask about it that it basically gives all your creatures Morph.
Well... that's not exactly true, is it? The creatures are 0/1 and have X mask counters on them; you don't automatically cast them for. So it's a bit more complicated than that. Basically every time Illusionary Mask is played, a judge will have to be called to explain the Oracle wording. So I think that's the reason, like it or not...
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
which would happen how often, maybe once every 5 major tournaments if that. This isn't standard. The card is legal in Vintage and was legal in legacy till the lists split. I think we can handle it.
Yeah. I didn't say it was a good reason...
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Creatures played with Illusionary Mask are 2/2.Well... that's not exactly true, is it? The creatures are 0/1 and have X mask counters on them; you don't automatically cast them for
The problem is, that you need to keep track of the mana you used to play the creature, and the problems that arise if you didn't use the right mana. For example, if you play a Goblin Warchief thru Mask, you need to use at least 1RR to play it (you can pay more, but the creature needs to be playable with the mana you use). Then, what happens if you didn't pay enough / right kind of mana, and two turns later the creature is turned face up? A judge is called, what's the penalty and do you keep your creature? I guess Mask is banned just because of its complexity.
Level 2 Judge
You seriously, seriously don't want to give TES Memory Jar. Illusionary Mask is fine tho', it'd be sweet to Enlightened Tutor for both the Mask/Nought and Balance/Top combos.
That's funny, magiccards.info is giving the wrong Oracle text.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Yeah, they haven't updated the latest Oracle changes yet (kicker wording, Mask errata for example).
Level 2 Judge
So, a legal Illusionary Mask makes all 1 mana creatures a 1 mana 2/2... super! Or even better: the Kobolds, Ornithopters and Phyrexian Walkers are 2/2 for
That card should be unbanned, this sounds like fun
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Black Vise: This card is actualy still a little too good in the format, if we had another cycle of playable pitch spells it wouldnt be but as it stands this card is simply too good as a T1 vice frequently will be 1 deal at least 5 damage to target player. That card is simply too strong IMO.
Earthcraft: Why is this on the banned list again? Oh right it infinates with another card useful on its own, we totaly dont have that in a better color set *COUGH SWANS CHAIN COUGH*
Mind Twist: This one is too good, unbanning this would cause metagames to degenerate into "Who twisted away 3/4 cards first" B is so much less than BB.
Grim Monolith:Im on the fence about this one. It is broken but in such a way that is less broken than LED/Chrome mox/Mox diamond which makes me feel like its inconsistent.
Land Tax: Blah blah blah scroll rack blah blah blah Should come off but be watched blah blah blah every one is in agreement blah blah blah bitch bitch bitch blah blah blah
Dream Halls: Dear wizards, still too god damn good. Consider the following. The dream halls deck would largely be a MUC deck that could actualy win the freeking game and play 12 REAL draw spells (4 FOF 4 ancestral visions!! 4 thirst for knowlage.) It ends up being a fight to resolve 1 card that automaticaly wins the game and all you have to be doing to play that "resolve to win me" card is play a deck thats already teir 1.5, its too freeking good (partialy due to ancesteral visions being a card) the kill takes up a measly 5 slots in the deck and 4 of those 5 win the game instantly on thier own the last card (brainfreeze I believe) will be cast with about 2 FOW and a counterspell or two backup. Its alot like adnauseam accept instead of "Put me in combo I cant play/pitch to FOW" it goes in control and all your "combo peices" draw cards and pitch to FOW.
@ people who even mentioned memory jar, Shooting you is far too kind we should put you on doctor phil to figure out what your mental disablity is.
@ people who said illusionary mask, This card is banned for the same reason shaaharazad is banned, it causes massive technechal headachs.
@ frantic search, still a little strong, makes solidaridy a force to be reconed with (As its basicaly the card that pushes the deck over the edge for consistencey/speed.) I would welcome it but I think its still not "Safe"
I c h o r i d - my anti blue
Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
Landstill > Fromat
Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
Basics > Non-Basic Hate
We can therefore logically conlude that
Basics > Format
Frantic Search I would argue is safe. Sure it makes Solidarity a bit better consistency wise, but does it really fix any of Solidarity's "scoop to CB" problems? ....probably not.
Land Tax people have been complaining about forever. The only explanation I can come up with is that "turns/games will take forever if people use it". Upkeep: Tax > Shuffle > Top > Decide > Reorder > Draw. Every turn, could be a little obnoxious.
Black Vise would make me nervous but I'd be willing to see how it goes.
As long as they leave my deck alone I don't care. Unless they want to throw me a Desire or two.
Earthcraft will remained banned as long as Combo Elves exists. If you haven't seen Earthcraft-infused Vintage or Classic Elfball, I suggest looking into it.
Also, my deck wasn't affected. Largely don't care, except now my Serenities will be better against the idiots playing Metalworker.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
The confusion of Illusionary Mask is pretty funny. It really shows how confusing that card is. I still have no idea how it works.
The cards that came off the lists doesn't seem to be powerful enough to warp the format, but yet at the same time, can (potentially) add some interesting stuff in Legacy for awhile.
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