[Deck] GB Landfall

[Nidd]

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Ob Nixilis
4 Korlash
2 Tombstalker

4 Smother
4 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Pernicious Deed

3 Crop Rotation
3 Life from the Loam

4 Thoughtseize

7 Fetch
4 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
6 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Gargoyle Castle
1 Cabal Pit

I refined the list a lot and I hope you like this one better.


This deck aims at controlling the board via spot removal (Smother, Pulse) and sweepers (Deed) to stall out for your synergies starting.
You have Ob Nixilis, who loves Fetchies and Crop Rotation and especially Korlash.
Then you have Korlash, who is fat and regenerative. Drawing 2 of him means you can start up another engine: Thin your deck via Korlash and Volrath's Stronghold.
Finally, you have Goyf, who is just... well, he's Goyf.
Tombstalker is a filler, tbh. I don't know what to play instead.

This deck features 3 Crop Rotations to fetch any utility land it might need.
The 3 Loam are good for Abusing cards like gargoyle Castle and Cabal Pit and Loam ensures you can make landfall trigger very often. Also, it enables you to recurr Wastelands, which is rapesauce.

Volrath's Stronghold helps to get the Ob Nixilis+Korlash engine going and it's just plain good for not running out of gas after a sweeper.
Cabal Pit gets rid of annoying creatures like Bob and can help your Goyfs break stalls.
Wasteland is plain good. It fucks with pretty many decks manabase and a Wasteland-softlock can win quite a few games.
Gargoyle Castle is an experimental slot. I like the option of making a 3/4 flier each turn, come lategame.
The cylce lands are there to get an engine goin with Loam, but they aren't a must.

[DrJones]

I think your deck would be better suited for extended if you just use a discard spell other than hymn and a kill spell other than smother.

[Nidd]

Narf. I might actually try that. Or are there better, old alternatives to some cards in there I just can't think of?

[Jaynel]

Life from the Loam, Volrath's Stronghold, and Urborg all seem pretty decent.

[DrJones]

Undiscovered Paradise? Thawing Glaciers?

[Maveric78f]

I'm quite sure that Sensei's Divining Top is better than Night Whispers in this deck : better fits the curve, and you don't really need card advantage since you play very fat beaters.

I just don't get how you abuse Landfall in this deck.

[KillemallCFH]

If you want to abuse landfall, 4 Crop Rotations is a good start. Not only does it provide a nice combat trick, but allows you to run some utility lands (such as the ones Jaynel mentioned). Crucible/Loam could also easily find their way in here if you want to abuse landfall.

[Nidd]

Updated the decklist.

[edgewalker]

I always liked Zombie Infestation in GB loam builds. Spitting out multiple 2/2s every turn seems pretty good.

[johanessen]

How about exploration?

[Hopo]

What is the point in making a deck around landfall if you play only one land per turn? With korlash, you can start abusing your extra landdrops by turn 4 at fastest. And that requires 2 korlashes.

Exploration should be the first card to put in, 4 copies of course. Otherwise there's no reason to build such a deck.

[vlz-]

Crop rotation / Harrow / Fetches abuses landfall at instant speed, your counting on a lot of straight land topdecks/loam at sorcery speed with explorations (and dead explorations).

[Hopo]

Exploration is never dead landfall-wise, if your deck has loams in it. The list in the opening post doesn't even include Harrow.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I really like the concept, and was inspired after playing against Phoneix_Ignition yesterday. The concept seems quite powerful, and has a lot of potential. I have since picked up the deck myself and done some tinkering, and so my comments stem from Phoenix's list yesterday, and my own testing and tinkering today.

Tombstalker seems counterproductive. It shrinks your Tarmogoyf, and worse, it shrinks your pool of eligible lands and, later, the creatures you can recur with Stronghold. This, in turn, hurts the landfall concept tremendously in return for dubious gains. Should 'Stalker be destroyed, for example, you're in real trouble.

Exploration and Crop Rotation seem like they focus too much on the Landfall plan, and not enough on stabilising the rest of the deck. Wouldn't a mana-creature like Birds of Paradise, Elves of Deep Shadow, or Veteran Explorer be fundamentally better? Rather than requiring you to have a land in hand, being able to play it immediately seems like a better plan, especially in the short-term. It still powers out Ob Nixilis early enough to matter, but it makes no real demands on the manabase. Veteran Explorer would be amazing, especially with Cabal Therapy kicking around to ensure its relevance. Your opponents aren't likely to run more basics than you, and you're more likely to take advantage of them (faster) than they are.

What about Raven's Crime? All the elements for a serious lock are here (viz. Loam): if you run it in multiples of 3-4, then it's fairly easy and consistent to pull off without even the need for something like Intuition.

What about Worm Harvest? One or two copies don't take much room, and the card presents a feasible alternative win condition, especially against Humility and/or aggro like Goblins/Merfolk.

Snuff Out seems like a stronger tempo option than Smother. None of the creatures that Smother can hit and Snuff Out should be much of a bother; besides which, Snuff Out allows us to cast other spells on that same turn, which I think is important for the deck. At worst, it leaves open mana for us to cast Life from the Loam. Maelstrom Pulse and Deed can take care of the rest.

Profane Command could also be an option: its versatility allows you to complement the Nixilis-life-loss strategy, to pop your own Veteran Explorer for six more Nixilis damage and two untapped mana, to reanimate something, or to swing for the win. Sounds like a plan to me.

These considerations have prompted me to test the following list, which has so far proven quite formidable:

Lands (21)

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
2 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Windswept Heath


Creatures (15)

4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Ob Nixilis, The Fallen


Spells (25)

4 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Raven's Crime
3 Life from the Loam
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Snuff Out
3 Profane Command
2 Worm Harvest


SB (15)

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Damnation
3 Tormod's Crypt


Obviously, I've sacrificed the concept of utility lands--including cycling and dredging--in favour of what I believe is a more consistent basic-lands approach. This relegates the Ob Nixilis plan to an end-game winner, rather than the primary win condition. Similarly, it means that you're generally only dredging Loam once a turn. So far I think that the trade off is worth it, and I don't really see the need (not to mention the room) for cycling lands.


Your thoughts?

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I've been testing pretty extensively over the last couple of days, and I'm quite happy with the deck. I really hope that some other people pick it up: it has a lot of potential to be exploited. I'm not sure whether it's superior to NO-Rock, or a Tombstalker-based deck, but it's quite good. The Veteran Explorer + Cabal Therapy package is especially daunting: opening a hand that can cast an Explorer on turn 1 means that you can double Therapy on turn two, and if you have an extra Therapy, then you're even more of a threat, since you can triple-Therapy on turn two. Four, if you'Re lucky and have an extra Explorer.



The weakest link in the deck so far is Ob Nixilis, which is often the hardest card to cast (you need to have it in your hand, after all, and there's no much filtering going on in this deck at the moment). Nonetheless, landing it is akin to winning. I even slow-rolled Goblins once, wiping the board with an Explorer-powered Deed, and eventually just winning as soon as I cast Ob Nixilis. Worm Harvest has been an especially helpful gem, but it still needs to overcome some dyssynergies in the deck: with Explorer, it's easy to fetch all the basics early on. This, unfortunately, leaves you with only a few cards to pitch into the graveyard.

[Phoenix Ignition]

That's an interesting take on it Goaswerfraiejen, and I'm glad I inspired more korlash use. The one thing I would critique in it is that you would definitely benefit from a white splash.

My take on it was to take the normal rock shell control here:

4 Swords to Plowshares
3-4 Vindicate
3-4 Pernicious Deeds
2-4 Eternal Witness (recurring any of the above cards is pretty damn good)

Add in some black discard power that is enabled from using many more swamps:

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

It needs some consistancy, and since Ob Nix loves fetchlands, the obvious choice is:
2-3 SDT

And then finish it off with creatures who are all bigger than goyf:
4 Korlash (obviously needs to be a 4 of)
3-4 Ob Nixilis the something something

Accelerate into the control and huge creature wins with:
4 Birds of Paradise

This leaves about 4 slots open. I really like the Veteran Explorer idea as we can easily benefit more than others can. If I take that route I'll be testing out 3 Cabal Therapy and taking out BoP most likely.

The main thing to think about here is to not neuter your deck to play fun things, which is a recurring theme in magic. Korlash has always been decent if you build the right deck around him (regenerating black creature only dies to white pretty much) and with a controlling rock shell you should be able to buy enough time to sit back and do very little, hitting land drops is simple and Ob Nix will eat face after that. One land and he's already a goyf-beater.

I don't however like the LftL angle that is being approached here. It takes too long to set up and turns you into a slow-rolling deck, when I'd rather just swing for 10 and drop a couple lands (which is pretty much 1 fetchland and a swing with ObNix).

P.S. I didn't include goyf because of the removal package the Rock deck runs, and the 7-8 creatures we play that are stronger than him. Also, this allows you to blow up deeds for 2 without killing your own stuff, which is in my opinion under-rated in recent rock decks.

[Elfrago]

Honestly, I don't see any place in legacy for Ob Nixilis.

Costs way too much: check.
Initilally slow, grows with time: check.
Dies to bolts: check.

If I want a creature with those disavantages I might as well play Vinelasher Kudzu, at least he is a 2cc card (and also far less expensive =) ).

[Phoenix Ignition]

Honestly, I don't see any place in legacy for Ob Nixilis.

Costs way too much: check.
Initilally slow, grows with time: check.
Dies to bolts: check.

If I want a creature with those disavantages I might as well play Vinelasher Kudzu, at least he is a 2cc card (and also far less expensive =) ).

I'm going to have to argue against this point. A creature who costs 5 is slower than most of the format, I'll give you that, but as a finisher he's still a giant bomb.

If you hold lands until you play him he can protect himself. They will bolt him in response, but if you dropped a fetchland and their removal is burn, you're in the clear and he will win the game. Growing by +3/+3 and 3 loss of life easily makes him a finisher that's going to be bigger than any other creature, even ones reanimator grabs. Volrath's stronghold brings him right back if he gets bolted.

I'm not saying he can be played in any deck, but he definitely can be played in legacy with the right kind of deck.

Vinelasher Kudzu grows 1/3 as fast without doing any damage. Please don't draw similarities between god awful cards just to try to condemn one that deserves testing in legacy.

[Elfrago]

No.

Today's legacy has evolved from the random mish mash of decks it was in 2005, there is now a set of costraints that every deck looking to succeed should abide to or find a way around them.

In today's Legacy there is no place for cards with 5cc (or more!) that don't do anything before turn 5 (at best). And only combo decks and decks with an Ancient Tomb powered manabase might stretch this to 6cc.

In today's Legacy the creature of choice is Tarmogoyf. You should compare every creature you play to Goyf. Tribal decks are the only exception to this rule but this is certainly not the case. This costs one and a half more and is one half smaller than Goyf. The ability is nice but definitely not worth three extra mana.

Now, the only way I see to make Ob Nilixis competitive is to go back in time to 2007, sneak into wizards quarters, and delete the Future Sight file from their hard drives.

Or just ignore everything I just said and keep going, you can even play Mesa Pegasus for what I care.

[scrumdogg]

Sometimes you can be in the right place at the right time. I suspected there would be little or no combo locally & hopefully only one (or no) Burn decks. So I attempted the following

Critters: 19
4x Veteran Explorer
4x Eternal Witness
4x Korlash
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Ob Nixilis

Spells: 18
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Pernicious Deed
4x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Engineered Explosives
2x Krosan Grip

Lands: 24
4x Forest
4x Windswept Heath (yes, when I get Verdant Catacombs, they will go in & I can respect the high fetchland level some people prefer, but Stifle is rampant in Central Mass...)
4x Bayou
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Volrath's Stronghold
7x Swamp

SB:
1x Ob Nixilis
2x Krosan Grip
4x Extirpate
4x Choke
4x Thoughtseize

Yes, the mana isn't quite right, could have used more access to green sources. Would love to adjust the mana to 3cc to gain access to white (Knight of the Reliquary, STP-type effects, Vindicate, EE@3 etc) but that will be a work in progress. The deck is also slow, but resilient, and many Counter-top decks & mid-range decks have trouble generating good early pressure (or dealing with 4cc/5cc resilient monsters). Zoo is a crap shoot, but I can punish them vomiting their hand onto the board early and if they play slow, my guys are scarier. Burn, I lose, period and combo is pretty bleak, but they tend to get eaten by all the Counter-Top whom I'm aiming at...

19-20 people Sunday, 5 rounds

Round 1 vs monoblack Sui,nice kid, new to the format, deck is focused on pump & creature kill rather than discard & LD, which is fine (pump not so much, since I benefit from bad Moon as well)

Both games he comes out fast but I stabilize with scary huge monsters and mass remove his obstacles to my victory. Veteran Explorer reminds me why I love him so fiercely. No one ever wants to actually use removal on him, making him a fantastic chump blocker, and rarely do they benefit as much as I do with the extra land. In some matchups (none this weekend, sadly) his 'drawback' doesn't even apply (but played no 4c Thresh, Dredge, Affinity, etc etc).

no sideboarding due to nothing being superior to the MD equivalents (or simple not applicable).

1-0 (2-0)

Round 2 vs 3c Landstill played by Josh Ciccio (wweenieking), talented player & a good deck...fantastic.

Game 1 we play a war of attrition until I can stick an Ob Nixilis, he makes a play mistake by tapping both his manlands next turn, I play a fetch and dome him for 15 between combat & ability. He has a fresh Deed on the board but too late.

In: 2x Grip, 4x Thoughtseize Out: 4x Maelstrom Pulse, 2x EE

Game 2 he gets silly early pressure with a Goyf & manlands. Goyf #2 after I reset is a 6/7. I stick a 6/6 Ob Nixilis & can eat the manland, go to 2, and make the Ob bigger than Goyf...except he has Submerge.

SB mistake changed to In: 4x Extirpate, 2x EE, x Maelstrom Pulse: 4x Cabal Therapy, 4x Thoughtseize

Game 3 we play a war of attrition again and large monsters do a tapdance on his face.

2-0 (4-1)

Round 3 vs Rodney with Zoo, a very good local player with another good deck. Time to see how this goes.

Game 1 he comes out quickly but a Maelstrom Pulse on his double Lavamancer followed by large obnoxious monsters grinds him under. Explorer does my dirty bidding yet once again, giving me the mana to stabilize while stopping crucial chunks of my life from dribbling away. I get to use the extra mana, he gets to over extend into my removal. Grandeur from an extra Korlash starts the unfairness by turning a trade into a blowout.

In: 2 Extirpate Out: 2x Grip

Game 2 Zoo does what it does, getting me for exact damage right before I can stabilize.

Game 3 was just stupid as his deck decided to give him land after land after land. Mine gave me no olands, followed by a forest, EE hand that I kept. Drew a land on Turn 2...another forest...followed by a Stronghold. Eventually got a swamp about the time Rodney got a creature and we limped along. Second black source spelled almost immediate doom for Rodney who saw upwards of 75% of his mana this game.

3-0 (6-2)

Round vs Brent (misplayer) with 3c Landstill. Brent is one of the best control players I know, but we are the only undefeated players (earlier unintentional draw) and seem to believe each has the advantage so we each happily agree to a draw. Should have played him for the experience but needed to rehydrate and stop twitching from the stress.

3-0-1 (6-2)

Round 5 vs CJ with UGR Thresh (Counter-Top not Canadian). Yet another good player but I am much happier to get Counter-Top than either of the Bant Survival players or the 3-1 Burn player.

Game 1 CT does what it does and chips away at me with a small Goyf while stalling/countering me. I get a Goyf of my own to stick. I get a Korlash down after he Cliques away my Deed in my draw step but it gets Fire/Iced two turns in a row as Clique gets in, followed by a last attack & Bolt.

SB: Out: 4x Cabal Therapy, 4x Maelstrom Pulse, 1x Ob Nixilis, 1x E Witness In: 2x Krosan Grip 4x Choke 4x Extirpate

Game 2 I break up his CT with a timely Turn 3 Grip after he drops the pieces T1 & 2. He gets double Vedalken Shackels but I land Korlash which is bigger than his Island total. Sadly it gets Submerged twice and Fire/Iced once before it gets to finally connect. Since he is an 8/8 at that point, we have 2 hits & chump block before game 3.

Game 3 he gets a T2 Counterbalance that I counter with a Choke. CB blind flip counters 4 turns in a row...until I land a security Choke (not the card I really wanted to resolve in that string >.<) but he can't get pressure on me, thank gawd. Finally get to Grip it & Extirpate all of them. Meaning that my recursion outstrips his control and eventually a Witness bringing back a fetch with Ob Nixilis in play ends it.

4-0-1 (8-3)

Top 4 splits the generous credit and move on with their lives. I don't think this deck was 4-0-1/5-0 good nor am I the tightest player alive, but I will gladly take the results! And I do believe the deck has potential if ou are in a Burn/combo light environment.