That's why we play Diminishing Returns, it doesn't care about life total. It doesn't require an additional turn or card either.Originally Posted by Shimi
He's right: know when to use returns and you'll see that good players don't 'get lucky' with it everytime, but time it well and then it's quite a reliable way to win on the spot.
Thanks Bryant for organizing the tournament reports by date. I've been having to deal with the Rock match up a lot lately and haven't gotten much progress on it. I usually lay down my artifact mana and wait for Ad Nauseam/Diminishing Returns, but their clock isn't exactly slow with goyfs and KOTR's. Any more advice on this match up? I think boarding out swarm and ETW is the correct play right? Orim's Chant seems pretty good for stalling their Hymn to Tourach and Thoughtseize assaults.
I'd probably keep in ETW since it can win you the game before they get to Deed mana.
I usually take it out. I go something like -2 Xantid, -1 EtW +2 Bounce +1 Iggy.
Why ETW is bad against Rock:
1. Maelstrom Pulse/Pernicious Deed can wipe your goblins out as early as turn 2
2. With the discard suite, our storm count won't be very high without a storm engine
3. Rock is an aggro deck whether you think so or not, so they can easily block/race our ETW
That said, I think boarding out ETW is probably the correct choice. If anyone else has justification for keeping it in post board, please feel free to comment. I think the very fact that they play so much removal warrents us to side it out.
You already said it: etw isn't optimal against rock. I board it put for iggy and some bounce too
Doomsday gives a sure win. It's conditional to having the right mana and the cantrip, but once you get that you win.
Last tournment I attended I actually went: Returns, IGG -> Returns and still lost. I love returns when I'm low on life, opponent's got counters in the grave and I have excess mana... but sometimes it just fails.
I think that is a really rare case and at some point you should have just Tendrilled him instead of went for another storm engine.
DR is inherently random and sometimes the deck is going to screw you, but the chances of winning is far greater than the chance of losing if executed precisely, so I don't think that Doomsday is the real solution here.
Don't give that "you did it wrong" crap. At every point of that chain of spells I'm certain that I did the correct line of play. On the first Returns I didn't have IT on the side, didn't have a second tutor to IGG loop and ETW was pointless. After drawing 7 I was stuck again with a clean graveyard and only BW in hand, no cantrips or storm count to finish him off. Finally I did the IGG and the last Return and drew into crap.
Obviously that is a cornercase. But it happens more than most people like to admit. Drawing into a bunch of land and IT with no LED has happened lots of times with me.
I don't know your circumstance or situation, but it sounds like you should have just tendrilled him and then waited to finsih him off.. more people do that than you think. Of course I don't know your circumstance, so I can't really say for certain.
If you don't know then don't comment on it.
I was playing against goblins, I knew he had a Matron and Piledriver in hand. He had 3 mountains and a Warchief in play and some other 3 goblins. If Tendrilled him for 18 and passed the turn, he would just play a mountain and hit me for about a billion damage.
Even if your opponent had five or six goblins in play, you could have just played EtW for 36 goblins. I hear that is pretty good. You can block all of his dudes and swing for the win next turn. The only way you lose here is if he has a Goblin Sharpshooter in his deck AND he draws the fourth Mountain.
Just something to think about.
This discussion is so pointless.
The only time I had a Burning wish to cast I was at like 3-4 storm. After that I cast Gains into another Returns that drew me nothing.
Returns is a great option. If you've cast a Chant and have a couple mana in your pool, you have a pretty good chance at winning the game. It even shrinks Goyfs and Reliquarys...
You had mentioned casting Tendrils for 18 as if you could have. You're right though, this discussion really doesn't matter.
Given the LACK of information YOU provided, I think it is safe to either tendril for 18 or drop enough goblins to block and swing back. I know based on the amount of information I was given. What I don't know is your circumstance. Maybe if you provided a little context, people could actually help you out.
By the way, if you were going to take a million damage next turn after you cast tendrils for 18, the Doomsday wouldn't have saved you anyway.
It's true, he did say it like that.
It just sounds like you are making up the story as you go along to discredit Diminishing Returns. FYI, the proper way to play DR is to have mana floating.
I'm gonna rock T.E.S. in Cincinatti on sunday, anyone else with me?
Team Our Market Research Indicates Armageddon Is Going To Wreck Your Face Except We Aren't Running That Card Anymore Elemental
Good luck!
Why is that? Assuming he's holding a BS/Ponder, he wouldn't need to build a pass the turn stack.
Not saying it's right though, the lack of SDT in this deck makes me think it's just not right for Doomsday.
But still. :)
you take cincinatti, USA,
i will take manila Philippines.
awwhoooo....
may we always be!
GL bro!
TJB
http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^
TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)
UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)
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