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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

  1. #1001
    Brad Herbig
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    I switched from 5c TES to 3c TES after I got wasted out of every game I lost at the GP. I play one Island and one Swamp, and I really like them. Between 4 Duress and 3 Thoughtseize (plus a thoughtseize and 3 pyroblasts in the board), I haven't really found a need for Chant or Xantid to fight blue, especially at the cost of a shitty manabase. Often if I can fetch both of my basics, I will have a land to both Duress and cantrip in a turn. This allows me to then just drop one of my duals on the turn I am going off in order to get whatever color I need. You only ever need blue and black before going off (exceptions are burning wish for protection), so having a basic island and swamp for the setup has proven to be helpful against the ridiculous amount of decks with Wastelands these days.

  2. #1002
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Does anyone else prefer Deathmark over Grapeshot when answering hate bears? Wishing for Grapeshot is a frustrating amount of mana, but Wishing on two and casting Deathmark on three before going off is pretty easy.

    (I get that you can set up Grapeshot for ~6 and finish with Tendrils, but if I have that much mana I'm pretty sure they're dead no matter what.)
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  3. #1003
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    I have been running deathmark since i picked up the deck about 6 month ago, and it work pretty well.

    For reference I run the chant's list with 14 lands and I've won the last two local tourney with it.
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  4. #1004

    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    Does anyone else prefer Deathmark over Grapeshot when answering hate bears? Wishing for Grapeshot is a frustrating amount of mana, but Wishing on two and casting Deathmark on three before going off is pretty easy.
    I run them both. Sometimes you need one, sometimes the other.
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  5. #1005

    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    this has been my sideboard. pretty happy with it so far.

    4 Deathmark
    4 Doomblade
    4 Pyroclasm
    2 Swamps
    1 Carnage Altar (awesome after Empty the Warrens)

  6. #1006
    Combo player
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    I'm playing around with perish, and firespout. I occasionally drop grapeshot for a fourth xantid swarm. My plan for canonist is shattering spree, meddling mage is warrens, so perish has been doing nicely against teeg and goyf aggro. Firespount buys be a few turns in the merfolk match so i'm kind of stalled on what do about those sweepers. I don't miss deathmark.

  7. #1007
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Herbig View Post
    I switched from 5c TES to 3c TES after I got wasted out of every game I lost at the GP. I play one Island and one Swamp, and I really like them. Between 4 Duress and 3 Thoughtseize (plus a thoughtseize and 3 pyroblasts in the board), I haven't really found a need for Chant or Xantid to fight blue, especially at the cost of a shitty manabase. Often if I can fetch both of my basics, I will have a land to both Duress and cantrip in a turn. This allows me to then just drop one of my duals on the turn I am going off in order to get whatever color I need. You only ever need blue and black before going off (exceptions are burning wish for protection), so having a basic island and swamp for the setup has proven to be helpful against the ridiculous amount of decks with Wastelands these days.
    What is your mana base then? Are you running more duals and cut gemstones or cut Citys for basics?
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  8. #1008
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Hi guys, try this card as solution to the hate bears: Flame Slash of the Rise of Eldrazi set...

  9. #1009
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketrae21 View Post
    What is your mana base then? Are you running more duals and cut gemstones or cut Citys for basics?
    It probably looks something like this:


    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Swamp
    1 Island


    At least that's what I run.
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  10. #1010
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    emidln: After about twenty goldfishes, your list is averaging about eleven damage from Ad Nauseam for a kill on turn two or three depending on how much mana is floating. The other lists I've been working with are in the range of about eight, but it seems like in theory that your list should be roughly equivalent (second Ad Nauseam over Tendrils/Empty actually saves some life, but having to get +2 mana to IT -> Wish is sometimes an issue.) and I think I might just be running bad. How much damage do you usually take on the play/draw?

    (it's also a little harder to set up an IGG loop (requires Wish+Wish instead of Wish+IT) but I think I'm okay with that if it means I never have to draw Tendrils or Empty manually)
    When in doubt, mumble.

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  11. #1011

    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    emidln: After about twenty goldfishes, your list is averaging about eleven damage from Ad Nauseam for a kill on turn two or three depending on how much mana is floating. The other lists I've been working with are in the range of about eight, but it seems like in theory that your list should be roughly equivalent (second Ad Nauseam over Tendrils/Empty actually saves some life, but having to get +2 mana to IT -> Wish is sometimes an issue.) and I think I might just be running bad. How much damage do you usually take on the play/draw?

    (it's also a little harder to set up an IGG loop (requires Wish+Wish instead of Wish+IT) but I think I'm okay with that if it means I never have to draw Tendrils or Empty manually)

    Can't you just Wish for IGG, Infernal for Wish, then Wish for Tendrils? Adds 2 more to the mana count, but that is very reasonable based on my experience with Grim Tutor.

    Also, to everyone who runs Ponder now, try Preordain, especially if you have 8 Tutor/Wish. It's about a million times better on turn 1.

  12. #1012
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Autotron View Post
    this has been my sideboard. pretty happy with it so far.

    4 Deathmark
    4 Doomblade
    4 Pyroclasm
    2 Swamps
    1 Carnage Altar (awesome after Empty the Warrens)
    Mine is identical, except with only 3 Doomblade, and 1 Shared Fate.

  13. #1013

    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    emidln: After about twenty goldfishes, your list is averaging about eleven damage from Ad Nauseam for a kill on turn two or three depending on how much mana is floating. The other lists I've been working with are in the range of about eight, but it seems like in theory that your list should be roughly equivalent (second Ad Nauseam over Tendrils/Empty actually saves some life, but having to get +2 mana to IT -> Wish is sometimes an issue.) and I think I might just be running bad. How much damage do you usually take on the play/draw?

    (it's also a little harder to set up an IGG loop (requires Wish+Wish instead of Wish+IT) but I think I'm okay with that if it means I never have to draw Tendrils or Empty manually)
    After playing some more games (about 40), I've lost to not having Tendrils main at least 9 times. This has cost me at least 2 packs on mtgo. I'm back at a Tendrils main, but I'm not happy about it.
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  14. #1014
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    I was pretty close to cutting a protection spell for a Tendrils. I like the second Ad Nauseam and basically hate maindeck Empty; I think I'm going to play 2 Ad Nauseam 1 Tendrils 0 Empty main. Whenever I can set up Infernal for Empty I'd usually rather wait a turn and set up ADN. Most of the time you choose between Infernal for Empty or Infernal for ADN with no mana next turn your Empty is only for like ten and not good enough anyway.

    Is anyone else a fan of maindeck Thoughtseize? It saves damage for me against aggro and gets all of the psychopaths with maindeck Teegs. It's also nice against Survival draws when Mongrel is their only gas or whatever and your hand is slow because you're on a Duress plan.

    I sort of want to maindeck more Seizes and Duresses to try to recapture some edge against Counterbalance rather than Xantids. I'd like to have 7 Duress 4 Swarm in the 75. It's a problem because I want the Duresses against Counterbalance and it's a worse matchup that needs the help, but Swarm is a huge huge edge against Madness/Merfolk.
    When in doubt, mumble.

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  15. #1015

    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Here's some analysis of the most common blue matchups w/respect to 3-4c TES:

    Madness:

    Duress/Thoughtseize alone are enough against Madness. That deck has 4 Force of Will, 2 Hope, and 3 Dreams against you. They have a somewhat fast clock, but it's actually not any faster than a decent Merfolk draw and a decent Merfolk draw probably has more disruption. You don't need Xantid, but if it resolves, there's nothing they can do about it. Basically having one protection spell and then being able to Ad Naus wins you most of the games in this matchup.

    Merfolk:

    Duress/Thoughtseize are good against them (several levels better than Chant here) but their extra taxing effects (Daze, Cursecatcher, and Spell Pierce) make for a rough time since they'll usually have 2-3 without taking into account stray wastelands when you don't draw enough fetches. You really want Xantid Swarm here since it will shut off everything but Cursecatcher, which alone is easy enough to play through. All in all this isn't an abysmal matchup, but without Xantid Swarm I don't like pushing my luck against them too often since their good draws will probably beat my good draws. This is really the reason to maindeck Xantid Swarm.

    Columbus Counterbalance:

    This deck is slow, vulnerable, and can has severe issues with Duress/Thoughtseize. That said, when they're on the play they have the ability to use cantrips to hide their Counterbalances. Spell Snare is functionally a hard counter requiring a Duress for most of your draws unless they do something like tap out for not-Counterbalance. Xantid Swarm doesn't do much in this matchup since they're probably not going to side out STPs since they suspect Bob and STP on their own Goyf can steal matches (not that they have much to side in anyway). This is where the Doomsday for Emrakul plan shines since they have 4 Force vs your 7-8 Duress and can't reliably CB your 3. The longer these games go, the worse they are for you since they have a very high probability of cantripping into CB. It's worth noting that active CB isn't the end of the world (you can play through it a decent amount of the time) but active SDT past turn 2 is far worse for you and ends up resulting in a match loss in most instances. This isn't necessarily from them hiding Forces on top as much as it lets them filter into disruption then a clock far faster than you can grab additional discard/solutions.

    Dreadstill:

    This matchup is bad no matter how you slice it. They run Force, Counterbalance, Stifle, and Wasteland. Their clock is respectable with Goyfs and/or Confidants and Dreadnoughts (Confidant is far bigger than a 2 power when the rest of their deck is composed of lands, filtering, and disruption). Some builds even have Trinket Mages to fetch their EEs. ETW isn't a bad plan here. Thoughtseize/Duress into a quick ETW/AdN is probably your best bet. Doomsday is awful here since they have Stifle/Waste. Xantid Swarm isn't very good due to Counterbalance, but it is respectable in that they'll often lose to it if they don't have CB+Top.

    It comes down to Duress/Thoughtseize being the best options in most blue matchups except Merfolk. Unfortunately, Merfolk is often a much larger percentage of the metagame than the other blue decks due to being generally cheaper and fairly effective at hating out the other blue decks. You can take this analysis and configure your disruption as you expect for your metagame.

    I didn't talk about Dark Confidant + extra Tendrils, but, quickly, you don't want to be dropping Bob in any matchup where they can put you on a fast clock. A quick clock means your Bob won't draw you many cards before you're forced to block with it. Matchups like this include Dreadstill, Merfolk, and Madness. Bob is okay against Counterbalance provided they side out all of their creature hate. Unfortunately they tend to have Spell Pierce and maybe Pyroblast as 3-6 slots in their sideboard while they run StP/Path, Firespout, EE, and sometimes Moat/Shackles as 7-12 dedicated creature hate. This means that they often won't be siding out all of their hate because they have nothing to board in. Turning on their otherwise dead cards in the name of stalling so they can get active CB doesn't seem like the best strategy.
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  16. #1016

    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Autotron View Post
    this has been my sideboard. pretty happy with it so far.

    4 Deathmark
    4 Doomblade
    4 Pyroclasm
    2 Swamps
    1 Carnage Altar (awesome after Empty the Warrens)
    Needs more Carnage Altar.

    Quote Originally Posted by lorddotm View Post
    It probably looks something like this:


    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Swamp
    1 Island


    At least that's what I run.
    Why do you need the second Volcanic Island? I've been playing -1 Volcanic, +1 Scalding Tarn, +1 Bloodstained Mire and 3 Chrome Moxes. I also regularly side out a Swamp versus non Wasteland decks - I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that with the extra Volcanic because it'd leave too few black sources for a T1 Duress/Thoughtseize.

  17. #1017

    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by maxflow2 View Post
    Needs more Carnage Altar.



    Why do you need the second Volcanic Island? I've been playing -1 Volcanic, +1 Scalding Tarn, +1 Bloodstained Mire and 3 Chrome Moxes. I also regularly side out a Swamp versus non Wasteland decks - I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that with the extra Volcanic because it'd leave too few black sources for a T1 Duress/Thoughtseize.
    The manabase is mine. The 3rd mountain is to support Pulverize out of the wishboard because it's the best artifact kill spell available. If you're playing vs a non-Wasteland non-Blue deck, you don't need to turn 1 Thoughtseize. If you're playing against a non-Wasteland Blue deck, you shouldn't be siding out lands anyway.
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    Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.

  18. #1018
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by emidln View Post
    The manabase is mine. The 3rd mountain is to support Pulverize out of the wishboard because it's the best artifact kill spell available. If you're playing vs a non-Wasteland non-Blue deck, you don't need to turn 1 Thoughtseize. If you're playing against a non-Wasteland Blue deck, you shouldn't be siding out lands anyway.
    Is that your manabase?

    I just got to that because its good. It's more of a logical deduction than a techy manabase.
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  19. #1019

    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by lorddotm View Post
    Is that your manabase?

    I just got to that because its good. It's more of a logical deduction than a techy manabase.
    Actually I lied. My posted manabases are 14 lands with an extra fetch. But yeah, it's a logical manabase if you're trying to support base UB with red needed sometimes pre-combo but mostly on the combo turn and you want to support Pulverize.
    BZK! - Storm Boards

    Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
    Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.

  20. #1020
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    Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

    Running this in a tournament tomorrow. The tournament is a test run for a larger one coming up next week. Any suggestions?

    13 Land
    4 Gemstone Mine
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 City of Brass
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Watery Grave

    47 Spells
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Duress
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ponder
    4 Rite of Flame
    3 Infernal Tutor
    2 Silence
    2 Lim-Dul's Vault
    2 Ad Nauseam
    1 Orim's Chant
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    15 Sideboard
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Deathmark
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Chain of vapor
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Wipe Away
    1 Diminishing Returns
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Infernal Tutor
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    1 Meltdown
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Thoughtseize

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