Did not face Maverick yet so I can only theorize about the matchup, but I'd try bringing in Hibernation from the sideboard.
The meta is perfect for this deck right now.
People packing stifles? - Nogoyf Beats that.
People casting planeswalkers? - Nogoyf Beats that.
Corlhelm commander/Emrakul not around? - Nogoyf's time to shine.
Geist > Sphinx/Mirran Crusader. Grunt is insane right now. Mom and wayfarer are on fire.
Gush? Yes please.
Happy St. Patrick's day.
Only posts when drunk.
Standard list, with geist in the flex spots.
SB to your taste.
Only posts when drunk.
Testing the geist. Against an empty board a geist + a grunt w/ sof&I is devastating, but I've also had the geist doing nothing but staring down a goyf. It's also hard to cast if wayfarer and fathom seer are doing their things, and the flier can't be equipped. That being said I was thinking of a 2/2 split with that and skaab ruinator, and upping the vial count a la Merfolk.
Grafdigger's Cage is my new GY hate of choice. It really is the most versatile hate we've seen. The fact that it also works against maverick and NO decks is icing.
Also Stony Silence is a 30 cent null rod that's harder for brown/red decks to deal with. Just remember to board out (most of) your equipment/vials!
I think a UW tempo list should/could work, but I'm not really a fan of a lot of the old tech this deck is playing. I would play some sort of mixture of Stoneforge Mystic, Mother of Runes, Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage, Geist of St. Traft and other 'goodstuff'.
I do think Jotun Grunt is pretty good right now as he can keep both Goyf and Knight at manageable sizes as well as providing incidental GY hate for game 1.
Is Serra Avenger's vigiliance really that relevant? 3 toughness is still going to die to Bolt, and it's not typically going to be big enough to profitably block anyways. I think Delver is an obvious replacement (however, I understand why he's -not- good if the deck isn't playing a high enough number of spells to reliably flip him).
Snapcaster Mage seems more efficient at providing mid-game card advantage than Fathom Seer. Yeah yeah, playing Gush is good with Wayfarer, but damn is that card clunky.
Playing a healthy number of SFM in a deck based around little creatures seems obvious to me. At worst, Demonic Tutor-ing for Jitte/Sword of X&Y seems reasonable.
The problem I have with this deck is that it feels as though I have to jump through hoops to get what other decks "just get." I'm waiting 3 turns to get my equipment online and attached when stoneblade just drops a batterskull. My 4 power creature for 2 can't just come online on turn 2 like a goyf, and my opponent doesn't even have to use a card to get rid of it.
Playing this against U/R Delver.... Yeah I have tricks I can do, and the deck is way more complex than throw burn and insects at your face, but isn't the point just to win?
I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on the merits of running stifle over spell pierce somewhere in the 75?
A resolved deed or explosives is devastating at best and slows us down at worst.
It can buy one more turn against a JTMS
Neuters snapcaster and sfm.
Stops KOTR > Maze of Ith
It's proactive like revoker or mage, but also reactive and instant speed.
Just some thoughts.
In almost all those situations, Spell Pierce still accomplishes what Stifle does, but makes them spend more resources to achieve (or attempt) it.
Is there a sample decklist that is being talked about in this current discussion? The last one I saw still used Vexing Sphinx. (2010?)
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Actually, spell pierce does not do the same, and actually makes them spend more resources.
4 lands out and they cast EE for 2.
Spell pierce = useless
Stifle = Resolves, then stifle the activation after they paid an additional 2.
Creatures with nasty ETB effects
Spell pierce = Useless
Stifle = Turns creature into squire
JTMS
Spell pierce = Counterspell for U #winning
Stifle = not entirely useless, but can keep a creature on the ground to attack or stop the ultimate
Kotr, Vial, Fetchlands, Welder, Mom, Karakas, Infinite amount of other activated abilities
Spell pierce = useless
Stifle = Stop your trick for U
That is the list that is still being proposed, minus the sphinxes. I think somewhere along the line some folks went up to 18 lands. I'm a fan of 3 Fathom seers to add the 4th wasteland.Is there a sample decklist that is being talked about in this current discussion? The last one I saw still used Vexing Sphinx. (2010?)
Great to have discussion back on this fantastic deck. Allow me some pontification:
Spell pierce acts as insurance in this deck. Stifle acts best as land destruction, and while it has other uses, they are marginal at best. Stifling SFM is still miserable, as they are up a card, and still have a dude. It's like playing a jace to remove a jace, after they've brainstormed with him. Barf. I guess it's useful against goblins and the like, but this deck eats gobbos for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
I could see the flex spots as being waste #4 and vial #3. This would streamline the deck, however it should be noted that in doing so, you remove late game "oomph" that helps push though. Yes, geist is most effective when they have no blockers, but remember, mom can easily accomplish this. I am reluctant to add more land, due to the face that with Wayfarer, one can end up almost feeling flooded. Remember, if they are wasting your turn 1 tundra, they probably suck, and you can punish them for it.
I've been experimenting with putting lands in the SB. Karakas, Maze of Ith, Tower of the Magistrate, and Moorland Haunt. I don't like Haunt, but it is useful in the control matches if the game goes long. Tower is great against Blade decks (obv) and can be used with much satisfaction in the maverick matchup. Mazing your geist after declaring attackers is another cool trick. Stony Silence is a boss against combo. I may also add a sword of light and shadow, because it's the best sword right now.
Be wary of Gutshot. This is one spell that has been overlooked, but is actually insanely powerful at the moment. I'm afraid that if it become popular, this deck won't exist anymore. It severely undermines this deck's greatest strength, which lies in board development while denying your opponent tempo. IE - they can't generate tempo with STP or Bolt if all your dudes cost 1. Gutshot ruins this paradigm.
This brings me to Umezawa's Jitte. Run 2 copies. Just do it.
Only posts when drunk.
I agree with the points below, however, I still feel as though you're underestimating stifle and overestimating spell pierce. Spell pierce is insurance, but it doesn't do anything proactively, it can be played around, and once the permanent is on the battlefield, it's useless. Stifle is proactive and hits many more targets.
A resolved EE or Deed wrecks this deck. How do you go about stopping this? Revoker or MM, FOW or hope they play into daze or spell pierce? Okay, but what if it is resolved? You can vial a revoker and hope they don't see it coming.
*note: I was talking about stifling the etb trigger of SFM, not the activation. Don't think of it that way. Think of it as paying U to tuck their batterskull. You would gladly pay W to get rid of the sfm before they can flash it in, right? Why not pay U and deny them the batterskull to begin with? The result is you paid U and a card and they paid 1W and got a squire. It's not really that bad.
Do you think Seers is still a good thing? I think one can be cut. I don't want to be flooded but I mulligan way more than I like at 18 lands, much less 17 lands.
I could see the flex spots as being waste #4 and vial #3. This would streamline the deck, however it should be noted that in doing so, you remove late game "oomph" that helps push though.
What do you feel is a 1-land keeper? I would need a fetch or a tundra with a vial and a daze or 1 plains and 2 wayfarers... I'm curious how everyone plays their mulls.
So 2 jitte main, 2 sfm, and no swords except in the sideboard?Yes, geist is most effective when they have no blockers, but remember, mom can easily accomplish this. I am reluctant to add more land, due to the face that with Wayfarer, one can end up almost feeling flooded. Remember, if they are wasting your turn 1 tundra, they probably suck, and you can punish them for it.
I've been experimenting with putting lands in the SB. Karakas, Maze of Ith, Tower of the Magistrate, and Moorland Haunt. I don't like Haunt, but it is useful in the control matches if the game goes long. Tower is great against Blade decks (obv) and can be used with much satisfaction in the maverick matchup. Mazing your geist after declaring attackers is another cool trick. Stony Silence is a boss against combo. I may also add a sword of light and shadow, because it's the best sword right now.
Be wary of Gutshot. This is one spell that has been overlooked, but is actually insanely powerful at the moment. I'm afraid that if it become popular, this deck won't exist anymore. It severely undermines this deck's greatest strength, which lies in board development while denying your opponent tempo. IE - they can't generate tempo with STP or Bolt if all your dudes cost 1. Gutshot ruins this paradigm.
This brings me to Umezawa's Jitte. Run 2 copies. Just do it.
Also more consistent vial drops help to mitigate gut shot.
Thoughts on Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in this deck? Her Amethyst effect can lock some decks out if Wayfarer is online, and it makes Daze/Pierce a little better (if you leave appropriate mana up ). First Strike with a Jitte is pretty sweet as well.
Played against Maverick and they were using Thalia... Apparently for the first time, too. They didn't realize that their STPs now cost 1W. It's great for slowing someone down, but we have at least 20 noncreature spells. So Thalia reads "1/3 your deck costs 1 more to cast"
Not that I don't think she's a good card or anything, and with an active vial we aren't as affected as most decks.
I've played the deck this sunday and was really impressed by Thalia, even when locking myself with her. She's a bomb against almost every matchup and should be probably played as a 3x. Consider that our non creature spell are:
- Vial (usually played before T.)
- Fow/Daze (very affordable at 1 mana)
- Swords/Bstorm (usually affordable at 2/not needed when T. is strongest)
- Equipment (almost uncastable/still "stoneforgeable"/usually not needed when T. is strong)
Hello!
I just goldfished many games at Pop Culture Paradise with my girlfriend, thanks to the azmagicplayers.com guys having an awesome legacy workshop, and I had build a uw brew the night before that I had a lot of fun with.
I tried to maximize the use of wayfarer without running crap like fathom seer(I said it... Crap) and the deck played quite smooth. I thought I would post it up for any consideration on the internets.
Doods:
4 mother of runes
4 weathered wayfarer
3 Serra avengers
3 phyrexian revokers
3 stoneforge mystic
Artifacts
1 batterskull
1 jitte
Chants
4 standstill
Instants
4 force of will
4 daze
3 spell snare
4 brainstorm
4 path to exile
Lands
4 flooded strand
4 mishras factory
1 dust bowl
1 academy ruins
1 Kjeldoran outpost
3 tundra
2 plains
2 island
The board was something like meddling mage, grunt, canonist, stifle. I used daze and path to ensure I had less lands for wayfarer and fetched up outpost(sac a land) or factories to defend/attack. It was loads of fun and operating under the standstill was quite powerfull.
The only change I would want to add would be to get some grunts into the mainboard.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Starscream- sulfer elemental is the equivilant of perish or virtues rain. All you can do is meddling Mage it after board, path it, bring in swords to pump your dudes, grunts to survive it(and smash face) and pray:)
Come to think of it: after board you can side out most 1cc dudes for EE(at 1) and bring in grunts and mages...which means with an elemental on the board you have 5/3's 4/2 flying vigilance and 3/1 beaters... kind of a push if you ask me... add that you your EE for geese and delvers, snares for goyfs and paths for anything you can target... not sitting too terribly bad.
Last edited by lavafrogg; 06-02-2012 at 02:19 PM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
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