Diversity? The heck with it!
We already have the card that ruins diversity the most, why worry about it?
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You do realize that TES with mind's desire is infinitely better than the crappy ad nauseum combo decks that we have today. I'm not against it as I would enjoy seeing more storm combo, but it won't happen. Wizards doesn't like it when combo decks beat control decks.Originally Posted by Humphrey
Also tinker? What? Have you ever played tinker in any format? Also do you realize we don't have restricted cards in legacy. Decks with 4 tinkers? What have you been smoking?
Man, Entomb shot up twofold and it doesn't see any more play than it did before. And I still need 3 ='(
I'm not making judgments about how powerful any of those cards are. Just stopping the "lol unban Skullclamp" chats before they start.
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If I remember right, i played against Desire in Extended and it doesnt seem that strong. Why is it better? It cost 6 to combo off and now with the new Stormhosertrap and a format full of stifle I dont see it ridiculous.
Tinker ive never played, only see it in combo with Darksteel Colossus. And I think its not strictly more problematic to Order/Prog.
But yes, this is the only card Im willing to remove from my unbanlist.
The thing about tinker is that it is already in blue, so it is far too easy to build a 1 card combo deck built around countermagic. We have already learned from flash that nothing good comes from cheap blue 1 or 2 card combos.
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Extended didn't have Lion's Eye Diamond, Dark Ritual, or Lotus Petal. LED in particular makes the card stupid.
Stifle and Mindbreak Trap are less of an issue for Storm than Counterbalance thanks largely to the fact that every Storm deck runs Chant, Silence, and Duress main.
Are you serious about Black Vise? It isn't that 'broken' in a sense of winning games, it isn't a combo card, but it completely destroys dedicated control decks. You don't need to do anything - just drop this on turn one and look how they painfully die with hands full of cards.
yeah if you're chanted, good luck on your mind break trap... yet the poster above hit the nail on the head... CB is what shuts down ANT.
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Desire in legacy isn't comparable to extended desire. You get dark ritual, lotus petal, LED, brainstorm etc.
I feel there's a 90% probability of no changes, and about 10% for one or two unrestrictions, in some kind of combination of tax, monolith and maybe frantic search. I doubt they want to put a very strong MUD or Tide deck into the format, though.
Tide has been dead as the proverbial doornail for years, and Monolith itself is pretty weak - it needs Voltaic Key or Workshop to be any good. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't even see play in Vintage, where it can be paired with things that make it stronger.
Entomb has not made an impact on the format, but it's certainly become a playable card, making Reanimator among the many many Tier2 (or lower) viable decks. Dream Halls and Metalworker haven't done much, so I expect these results to encourage them to continue with the unbannings. It only makes the format more diverse, and that's not a bad thing.
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I'd like to see Earthcraft unbanned. I'd also like to see a Mind's Desire list for this format that would be better than NLS/ANT/TES in its current form, because I personally don't believe it exists.
I remember playing Mind's Desire back when it was briefly Extended legal and it certainly was a slow deck compared to current Legacy combo decks, but when you successfully cast a Mind's Desire with even a moderate amount of storm copies (5 or so), it was almost always an autowin. If it could be made faster using Legacy's great card base, it would be a wrecking ball.
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Mind's desire seems much more powerful than Ad Nauseam and Returns. It is ok in vintage because you can't run four. Desiring into desire seems way more powerful than anything legacy has right now.
Land tax seems pretty bad. Scroll/tax seems worse than just playing top and fetchlands.
Black Vise, Tinker and Gush all need to stay banned.
Mind twist is very powerful but I'm not sure if its ban worthy.
Mind twist really isn't all that powerful, the decks that would play it almost never get over 4 mana, and at that point, its just terrible.
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Mind Twist is a joke. Honestly, either you're casting it on turn 4 for three cards (which is rediculously slow) or you're playing it with accelerants and losing damn near as many cards as you take from the opponent. And then you're playing a deck with accelerants. Combo doesn't want to use its accelerants on disruption, and no other deck plays accelerants.
Although it would be hilarious in that Bosium Strip deck.
Please, please do not ask for unbannings on combo cards. People will break the format with them. These cards should remain banned for the health of the format:
-Frantic Search
-Channel
-Mind's Desire
-Grim Monolith
-Fastbond
-Earthcraft
-Hermit Druid
Trust me when I say that you will have serious issues if any of these cards are unbanned.
After 2 minutes of writing down standard blue/black cards that fit into combo, I came up with this:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [B] Underground Sea
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [8E] Merchant Scroll
4 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [SC] Mind's Desire
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [B] Dark Ritual
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
After goldfishing in MWS 5 times, I had 4 turn 2 kills and a turn 1 kill. Not once did I mulligan. The list isn't even good either, as cards like Merchant Scroll and Divining Top are almost completely useless when you're winning turn 2 on average.
I don't really feel the need to test it any further. If a Legacy list I come up with off the top of my head is goldfishing faster than my finely tuned Vintage combo decks, there is a problem.
EDIT - For the sake of people's sanity, don't use "I don't believe it exists" to justify your argument. The cards are banned because they have historically been problems. "I don't believe it exists" is not a reason when all of the cards have already proven they do exist in powerful decks.
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Tax and Illusionary Mask are both stupidly safe. With all likelihood, so is Mind Twist, about the only thing I can see it doing would be as a wish target for Lands or Aggro Loam.
Frantic and Earthcraft are a bit more dangerous, but I don't think we need to worry about them. Frantic is only good for Solidarity and Earthcraft is good in what? Elves?
Hermit Druid is a possibility. He does read G, T: win the game, but he also costs two and dies to any removal or a Crypt/Relic/Extirpate/whatever. I doubt they'll risk it with Madrid coming up, but I also doubt he needs to be banned.
Dragon is a horrible combo that also dies to any hate imaginable, but the DCI doesn't seem to like draws, so I doubt he's ever coming off.
Gush is madly broken guys, seriously. It draws you two cards for no mana with dodging Wastelands and netting additional land drops as a "drawback."
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