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Thread: Counter-Rebel Still

  1. #121
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    My newest list:

    Rebels!

    // Lands
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    2 [ON] Windswept Heath
    4 [A] Tundra
    3 [UNH] Island
    3 [UNH] Plains
    3 [US] Gaea's Cradle

    // Creatures
    4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
    4 [NE] Defiant Falcon
    4 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
    1 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
    1 [LRW] Mirror Entity
    1 [PLC] Big Game Hunter

    // Spells
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    4 [NE] Daze
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [ROE] Training Grounds
    4 [MR] Chrome Mox

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
    SB: 4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
    SB: 4 [US] Disenchant
    SB: 3 [SOM] Turn Aside
    SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle

    Whipcorder has been pretty awful in testing, since he doesn't do anything the turn you put him into play. Big Game Hunter answers whatever problem is on the board immediately, and is a body on the board (for the combo). I usually only need to use him when I get a slow start (against standard aggro and aggro/control), and of course, against Emrakul.

    I cut down to 3 Cradle's because, although they accelerate the combo, they are slow at starting the combo, and I got tired of getting clogged with them early. I decided to put 4 Chrome Mox into the deck, because the extra acceleration in the beginning of the game is amazing, and I almost always have excess cards in hand to pitch (like extra Rebels). Turn 1 land, Mox, Falcon; turn 2 land, Training Grounds, recruit is awesome. Turn 1 land, Mox, Sergeant (with Pierce mana up), turn 2 land, recruit is also awesome.

    I really like this list. It's very streamlined, and very polished. It has a great mix of protection and accel, and of course, combo pieces. 13 recruiters just feels right, and I the only toolbox I ever feel like I need is the single Big Game Hunter. The deck is very linear in what it wants to do: drop a recruiter, drop accel, put a few dooders into play, swing for lethal.

    The deck has been testing really well. I am interested in seeing what you guys think.

    EDIT: The sideboard is pretty bad right now, I'm not really sure what I should put in it.

    Enemy Tabernacle's have been a pretty savage beating, and the only answer I can think of is Wasteland, which I'd hate to have to put in my sideboard to answer something so narrow. Maybe bring in Jace TMS for those matchups?
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  2. #122
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Chrome Mox could be a nice addition to the deck. Altough i'm not sure if maybe Swords is a better card in most circumstances. Depends on meta though. I think 11 to 12 Recruiters are the optimum (i don't count Linn because she is too slow).

    One of the main choices i'm facing right now is if i should play the cb/top package or not. I think no one would say that playing these cards is a bad choice because cb/top can never be a bad in legacy. I'm just not sure if it is needed in this deck and that's what i'm trying to find out atm.

    For the sideboard. I played a Enlightened Tutor Toolbox that looked much like the UW-Tempo Sideboards. If you do this you have a potential answer Tabernacle i.e. Spreading Seas. There may be better answers though.

    How did your Mirror Entity count go in testing? Is one enough? I just lost one game to swords in me entire testing (i play only 1 ME). And of course i may lost few games becaurse i had ME on my hand instead of my library which seems to be more threatening than the potential exile.

  3. #123
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    I've had a rough couple matches against Goblins (the black builds) . It feels like rebels is about a turn slower than them . Maybe it's just my opinion or I am missing something but it would be much appreciated if anyone would give me a few pointers on SBing this matchup .

    I've started testing 3 Perimiter Captain in my SB , I'll post back if it tests helpful .

    I'm using hanni's list -1 Lieutenant -4 chrome , +1 children of korlis +4 plow .

  4. #124
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Just board Absolute Law(E.tutot) & Red Elemental Blasts against them. :)

  5. #125
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    I like E.Tutor with Propaganda and Worship alot

  6. #126
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    This is the list I am testing .

    Link to downloadable file

    // Lands 19
    5 [B] Plains (1)
    2 [B] Island (2)
    3 [R] Tundra
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [ON] Windswept Heath
    1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
    2 [US] Gaea's Cradle

    // Creatures 18
    4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
    3 [NE] Defiant Falcon
    2 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
    1 [TSP] Amrou Scout
    2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
    1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
    1 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
    1 [TSB] Defiant Vanguard
    1 [PLC] Big Game Hunter
    2 [LRW] Mirror Entity

    // Spells 23
    4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
    4 [ROE] Training Grounds
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    4 [NE] Daze
    4 [AL] Force of Will

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
    SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 1 [US] Absolute Law
    SB: 1 [TE] Propaganda
    SB: 1 [US] Back to Basics
    SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1 [WL] Serenity
    SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
    SB: 3 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
    SB: 1 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
    SB: 1 [IA] Hydroblast

    I dropped 2 lands and went down to 18 blue cards so I could pack 4 STP in the main . I personally like the 2nd Lin Sivvi in the deck but she could easily just be another 2cc Rebel searcher .

    I like Numbus over Whipcorder , Nimbus does something the turn I search for it while Whipcorder stops flyers and other evasive creatures . I suppose that is a complete meta call .

    I play Childrens of Korlis MD because I feel that 11 searchers (13 counting Sivvi) is enough . As for the slot I debate between Korlis and Whipcorder (again) . I feel that Korlis is better against ANT , Goblins , Zoo and Burn while Whipcorder is better against Countertop and Show and Tell .

    As for my SB , I haven't seen dredge locally in a long time ( yay ! ) so I play a Jitte , a Back to Basics and a 3rd Llawan in the spot . The 3rd Llawan may not be necessary but I expect to see Merfolk a lot . Back to Basics is awesome , since we don't run Wastelands they usually fetch duals first G2 . The Jitte and the 3rd Llawan would be a Tormod's Crypt and a Wheel of Sun and Moon if I was at a large event or expected to see Dredge .

    I'm actually contemplating taking Rebels to the SCG Indy , so any advice , sb recommendations , manabase tweaks , or general deck bashing is very VERY much appreciated .

    If I chicken out on running Rebels I could always just run Merfolk :|

  7. #127
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Hey,

    this list looks solid to me. I'm wondering how the 19 Lands are working? It feels more safe to play between 20 and 22 at least to me.
    I think you could drop Defiant Vanguard but if you like him you should stay with him. I like Swords to Plowshared alot. Dunno if you need a full playset though (I use 3 atm) but no big deal.

    I agree that Goblins is a little faster but it has some weakpoints.It relies more on the cards from the library, which is obviously sometimes bad.
    With a swords or Fow you can turn the tides. They get punished really hard if they attack at the wrong time and this is good against most players because they don't know your deck very well.

    I'm still hoping that there are 1 or 2 rebels on MBS but there is nothing so far :(.

  8. #128
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    I've only played a few matches vs Goblins so far , but all the games were lost to them being faster because of Warchief . Playing against 4 Wastelands and 3 Rishadan Ports I still wasn't mana screwed . I'm still testing the new lighter manabase but my initial games suggest that 3 mana on the table + a Training Grounds feels like enough . Of course , I haven't tested against Waste + Daze + Stifle yet . That may prove to be a problem .

    *EDIT*

    I just finished a match against Counterbalance Progenitus . The opponent was using a much more defensive list , and he had Wall of Roots in the MD . I landed a searcher using Daze before he got CB/Top online and just forced my way through with Entity .

    SB -4 Plow , +2 ETutor , +1 Serenity +1 Aura

    G2 I saw him play a turn 2 Needle on Entity , I Pierced and he Forced back . I untapped and resolved Falcon and a was able to push flyers in from there . I didn't draw any SB cards or Tutors .

    Also , holy crap is this deck fun to play !
    Last edited by Indykid Vago; 01-22-2011 at 06:43 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Hey,
    i agree with the fun part :) ...
    With TG in play mana is not an issue that's for sure. But how are you doing without it?
    Against Goblins i usually try to safe STP for Chieftain or Warchief, Counter can do the same.
    Of course sometimes it isn't enough and you lose.

  10. #130
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    vs Goblins it seems like the kep cards to stop are Vial and Warchief . Seems like if either of those resolve and I don't have TG in play Rebels is doomed . It also seems like Goblins has a lot more common nut draws than this deck . That said , when I do manage to resolve an early Training Grounds AND a untap with a searcher in play Goblins tends to roll over . It usually means protecting the rebel for a turn , so I'm starting to feel this match up is slightly unfavorable .

    Post board Absolute Law helps oodles , and BEB and Hydro rock balls .

    Does anyone think that the Llawans in my SB are needed ? I am expecting to face CB/Ttop , Goblins , Merfolk and Junk .

  11. #131
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    I use 2 Llawan and they won me some games. You could run Meekstone. It wrecks merfolk totally. So you can replace three Llawan for 1 Meekstone and additional cards like BEB or whatever you want.
    I agree that Vial is the biggest problem (with merfolk aswell). I usually counter it if i can but it resolves a lot. You could add needle to the SB.
    I think Rebels is favored against most CBTop decks. The other matchups are about even, maybe a little bit favored against merfolk but unfavored.
    Whenever i'm testing at MWS i win against merfolk alot but in tournaments they get draws from hell and i get wrecked :/.

    There's nothing you can do about it :p

    *edit: @ Hanni: I'm currently testing the Chrome Mox. They work out fine and i consider playing them in this deck. I'm testing a little more but they are fun :)

  12. #132
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    actually you don't need meekstone or llawan as you usually should win against decks like Merfolk..
    Zoo is the worst matchup I guess so the Meekstone could be good here maybe? On top of that I run Sideboard Absolute Law(with 2 E.tutors), 2 BEBs & 1 Thermal Glider(prored rebel) against Zoo,Burn,Sligh,Goblins and Punishing Fire Loam because they're a pain.

  13. #133
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    RE : Meekstone , if you are SBing Meekstone (which I found a bit underwhelming) you may want to run a Whipcorder in your list to keep the board tapped . That said , Meekstone was solid vs Rock (backed by Whipcorder) .

    @Alexeezay : Zoo is a HORRIBLE matchup , and the only way I even feel close to 45% against it is to SB 3 Perimiter Captain . Unfortunately , Captain hasn't tested all that well vs Goblins (surprisingly ) , which I am starting to feel is probably our 2nd worst match out of the top decks right now .

  14. #134
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Looks like there are no rebel cards in MBS, too sad. Is there anything else we could use? I don't think so :(

  15. #135
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    here is my recent lucky 8th place finish at our local tournament.
    The decklist doesn't have that many changes, I got a Thermal Glider in SB now against Goblins/Zoo:
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...5&iddeck=40079

  16. #136

    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Is training grounds stricly better than Thran Turbine ? I'm not sure but I just thought I would throw it out there. Seems like it has a shot at being helpful in the same way training grounds is, but I'd be interested to hear thoughts on the matter.

  17. #137
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    It's obviously not strictly better, but it is functionally better in everything but corner cases.
    I will make use of every tool that fate presents.

  18. #138

    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Quote Originally Posted by perm View Post
    It's obviously not strictly better, but it is functionally better in everything but corner cases.
    This might be crazy...but what about running both? You could get a mean mirror entity out pretty quickly as well as search up a buttload of dudes. Might be worth testing.

    It could take the place of chrome mox. This way, you get the mana advantage for activating the abilities you need to, and you don't lose the card advantage you do with mox.

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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Well if you compare Training Grounds to turbine, TG is clearly better. It enables a possible 2nd turn recruit, it helps multiple recruits and it is blue, which is good if you run FoW. Another reason is that you don't have to activate rebels during your turn, which allows you to respond in your opponents turn.
    So i would never change TG with turbine. Maybe if you run no blue.

    You can try running both though. Chrome Mox has some advantages too: It also features a possible 2nd turn recruit. It allows you to play both a recruit with blue mana open for pierce and you can play a 2cmc rebel in the first turn. Dunno if turbine is helpful here. I might test it on MWS, but i'm not convinced by it in general.

    Another thing i like to point out is that card disadvantage is not a problem if you enable your recruiters. You get a huge card advantage out of your library. I usually play nothing out of my hand except counters and maybe Swords if i can recruit. This is the reason why cards like FoW and maybe Reverent Mantra work so well in general.

    Card disadvantage is a loss if your rebel gets burned or something like that, but i think forcing the early recruit at the cost of some cards is the best way to play this deck, at least from my experience.

    Just my 2 cents

  20. #140
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    Re: Counter-Rebel Still

    Does anyone know of any SB cards or MD cards that would make the Zoo match not so horrible . It feels like Rebels vs Zoo is around 75% in their favor . I can't really seem to keep Worship or Absolute Law on the table since they run Pridemage .

    My current sideboard .

    //Sideboard:
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Children of Korlis
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Meekstone
    1 Absolute Law
    1 Worship
    1 Null Rod
    1 Serenity
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
    1 Blue Elemental Blast
    2 Hydroblast

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