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Thread: [Deck] Bant

  1. #2321
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Without Miracles demanding lots of Abrupt Decay between the maindeck and the sideboard, what will our removal package evolve into? Is it worthwhile to still play any Abrupt Decays? What about Fatal Push? I'm also fond of Disfigure, as it hits Deathrite (!), Delver, Pyromancer, Monastery Mentor, Stoneforge, Baleful Strix, Aluren combo pieces, all of Burn's creatures, all of DnT's creatures (besides Crusader), and all of Elves' creatures (besides Craterhoof), and probably more.

    I'm thinking 4 StP and 2 Decay MD, with 2 Disfigure and maybe a Krosan Grip or two in the SB.

    Lastly, isn't Engineered Plague fairly narrow? Unless you expect truly overwhelming numbers of Elves or Death and Taxes, I cannot see justifying more than 1 in the SB. Zealous Persecution is just so much more flexible.
    Why disfugure over push

  2. #2322
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Yeah, I don't see any reason to play Disfigure anymore.

    Also, with four StP and equipment I don't think you should play more non-sweeper removal. Especially not taking up precious SB slots.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  3. #2323
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Why disfugure over push
    Things that Disfigure hits that Push does not hit on default mode:
    Monastery Mentor, Vendilion Clique, Sanctum Prelate, Recruiter of the Guard, Flickerwisp, Palace Jailer, Parasitic Strix.

    Significant cards, but not a significantly large list, so I think you're right and Disfigure would just be Fatal Push.


    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Especially not taking up precious SB slots.
    The format is prepared to devolve into Deathrite duels. He who has the last Deathrite standing wins. SB removal just for killing Deathrite seems worthwhile to me.
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  4. #2324
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    I think I'm settling on something like this

    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest


    SB:
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Rest in Peace
    3 Meddling Mage
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Zealous Persecution
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    Last edited by Whitefaces; 04-26-2017 at 07:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  5. #2325

    Re: [Deck] Bant



    Pretty good new Facebook group for stoneblade stuff.


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  6. #2326
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
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    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  7. #2327

    Re: [Deck] Bant

    If Delver rises up to prey on the combo decks- 8 3s might be too much. I like it as a starting point though.


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  8. #2328
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    8 three drops is worse against Delver than 6 three drops and 2 four drops? Clique doesn't even get hit by Spell Pierce like Jace does...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  9. #2329
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    We're pretty close on decklists, which is a good sign! Swapping Cliques for Jace is really interesting, and running through the gauntlet of decks I'm expecting it actually looks good on paper. Gonna have to think about this, but improving the combo matchup and lowing the decks curve seems like a solid change if we're expecting Delver, Storm and Elves.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  10. #2330

    Re: [Deck] Bant

    I haven't seen Delver decks running pierce main in a while- but I didn't take a close look at what you dropped for clique- I just saw -1 stp -1 sofi and thought those were the cuts for the clique.


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  11. #2331
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    I have two tournaments over the weekend, I'll try the below on Saturday and see how it feels for the bigger one on Sunday.

    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Vendilion Clique

    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    1 Abrupt Decay

    1 Ponder

    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    3 Tropical Island
    2 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest

    SB:
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Rest in Peace
    3 Meddling Mage
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Zealous Persecution
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    Last edited by Whitefaces; 04-27-2017 at 09:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  12. #2332

    Re: [Deck] Bant

    In a world with lots of delver and combo, I like the new Gideon a lot, especially if those delver decks are RUG or 4c with a minimal number of decays.

  13. #2333
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by limbo View Post
    In a world with lots of delver and combo, I like the new Gideon a lot, especially if those delver decks are RUG or 4c with a minimal number of decays.
    Oh man, I want to try this so much. Neat idea!
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  14. #2334
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    I have two tournaments over the weekend, I'll try the below on Saturday and see how it feels for the bigger one on Sunday.

    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Vendilion Clique

    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    1 Abrupt Decay

    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    3 Tropical Island
    2 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest

    SB:
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Rest in Peace
    3 Meddling Mage
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Zealous Persecution
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    Your maindeck only has 59 cards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  15. #2335
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by limbo View Post
    In a world with lots of delver and combo, I like the new Gideon a lot, especially if those delver decks are RUG or 4c with a minimal number of decays.
    I'm not sure why Gideon of the Trials would be good against RUG Delver...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  16. #2336
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Your maindeck only has 59 cards.
    Good catch. Last card is a Ponder, not the most exciting.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  17. #2337
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    We're pretty close on decklists, which is a good sign! Swapping Cliques for Jace is really interesting, and running through the gauntlet of decks I'm expecting it actually looks good on paper. Gonna have to think about this, but improving the combo matchup and lowing the decks curve seems like a solid change if we're expecting Delver, Storm and Elves.
    Yea, for the most part, the core is pretty solid and seems mostly agreed upon.

    When I first started tuning my list, the first thing I noticed was that Jace was so much less good in this deck than it is in control decks. The deck also has tons of other stuff to do/cast throughout most of the game, so many times Jace just sits in hand for a long time. Honestly, there are very few matchups where I'd rather have Jace instead of Vendilion Clique.

    Jace is still an incredibly powerful card. It's not necessarily wrong, and can be strong in the right meta. However, Clique just fits into this decks gameplan much better. Evasive Jitte carrier, disruption on a body, etc.

    It may also be the way I view this deck. To me, this deck is a big tempo deck reminiscent of New Horizons, except obviously much better. To me, this deck is as much or more of an aggro deck than it is a control deck. Blue Maverick, if you will. A better Maverick, in my opinion. But at the same time, it's big tempo, so it's also like a midrange Delver deck in a way. Either way, Jace just doesn't really seem suited to those plans, for me.
    Sligh
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  18. #2338

    Re: [Deck] Bant

    I've always played it like a tempo deck using Jace to go over the top- clique main is very good right now so a 1/1 split could be right- I'm not ready to cut Jace completely though.


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  19. #2339
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    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Yea, for the most part, the core is pretty solid and seems mostly agreed upon.

    When I first started tuning my list, the first thing I noticed was that Jace was so much less good in this deck than it is in control decks. The deck also has tons of other stuff to do/cast throughout most of the game, so many times Jace just sits in hand for a long time. Honestly, there are very few matchups where I'd rather have Jace instead of Vendilion Clique.

    Jace is still an incredibly powerful card. It's not necessarily wrong, and can be strong in the right meta. However, Clique just fits into this decks gameplan much better. Evasive Jitte carrier, disruption on a body, etc.

    It may also be the way I view this deck. To me, this deck is a big tempo deck reminiscent of New Horizons, except obviously much better. To me, this deck is as much or more of an aggro deck than it is a control deck. Blue Maverick, if you will. A better Maverick, in my opinion. But at the same time, it's big tempo, so it's also like a midrange Delver deck in a way. Either way, Jace just doesn't really seem suited to those plans, for me.
    I see where you're coming from. I've always seen it as more of a midrange deck, but there is a tempo aspect to it with the dazes.

    I'm not sure it's right to compare Jace to it in control decks though, it's arguably just as good here as in any BUG shells. And Jace won't ever be as good as in Miracles. But as Thomas says below, I like it as a way to push over the top of other fair decks, powering out either Clique or Jace is a strong play, but we have disruptive elements and threats already. Jace has been nothing but amazing for me in the deck and while the meta is changing, I'm not convinced that it's hostile enough against Jace to cut them altogether yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSmiley View Post
    I've always played it like a tempo deck using Jace to go over the top- clique main is very good right now so a 1/1 split could be right- I'm not ready to cut Jace completely though.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Agree, I'll try this 1/1 split and let you guys know.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  20. #2340

    Re: [Deck] Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I'm not sure why Gideon of the Trials would be good against RUG Delver...?
    It comes down and +1 to get out of bolt range while taking the edge off of one of their creatures. So if resolved, it costs RUG at least a card and a creature attack to remove. If they don't kill it you have the option of slowing them, making an emblem, or pressuring. The importance of the emblem against the RUG is that we often stabilize between 5-1 life against them, and then have to fade a burn spell while we turn the corner and kill them. The emblem, especially if it is on 4 loyalty locks out that lane for them almost entirely. The argument can be made that Leo is a better card against RUG, but it only earns 1 card against a bolt, and can't profitably interact in combat against them at all. Gideon plays the angles well, and I already traded for 2 so I can run them this weekend.

    Also of note, gideon emblem is a straight G1 lock against several combo decks including ANT.

    It may turn out that there are too many swarm decks, abrupt decays, trample creatures, and walking ballistas out there to really make it worth a spot, but it looks really good right now. Since we have TNN and a tempo build, buying 1 turn with him could well be all that it takes to swing a lot of games.

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