[Deck] Bant

[Hanni]

I'd definitely move towards 4 Hierarch and 4 GSZ. Turn 1 manadork is a pretty paramount plan for this deck. Manabase needs to get much less geedy though, so like only 1 Leovold to grab with GSZ, and probably needs to lose most of the black splash. 4 Wasteland and 4 Daze is also where I'd be at now.

[maharis]

I'd definitely move towards 4 Hierarch and 4 GSZ. Turn 1 manadork is a pretty paramount plan for this deck. Manabase needs to get much less geedy though, so like only 1 Leovold to grab with GSZ, and probably needs to lose most of the black splash. 4 Wasteland and 4 Daze is also where I'd be at now.

I think if we do 4 GSZ + Arbor that means cutting Ponder and moving Force to the side. Which is fine with me, but it does decrease the G1 % vs. combo.

So with the list I posted:

-4 Ponder
-4 Force of Will

+2 Green Sun's Zenith
+1 Dryad Arbor
I guess +1 TNN which means I have to buy one (yuck)
+1 Daze
+1 Spell Snare
+2 Spell Pierce

So like a big Delver deck?

[streetMage]

Think I may try:

Out:
- 4 Deathrite Shaman
-1 Bayou

In:
+2 Green Sun's Zenith
+1 Dryad Arbor
+1 Ramunap Excavator
+1 Qasali Pridemage

Only replaced and removed non-blue cards, so Force of Will still good as in old list.
Focus is making sure we make land drops early, Dryad + Green Sun and making sure we have consistent mana with a tutorable Ramunap.. even if hes removed we still get value, esp since Deathrite is no longer around to steal lands from our graveyard. Qasali Pridemage is just additional tutorable green creature for Green Sun..

Old list:
Lands (20)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Polluted Delta
1 Karakas
1 Forest

Creatures (18)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells (17)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Ponder
1 Council's Judgment

Artifacts (3)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Enchantments (1)
1 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher

Sideboard (15)
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Rest In Peace
1 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Spell Pierce
1 Krosan Grip
1 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage

[Seraphix]

I think if we do 4 GSZ + Arbor that means cutting Ponder and moving Force to the side. Which is fine with me, but it does decrease the G1 % vs. combo.

So with the list I posted:

-4 Ponder
-4 Force of Will

+2 Green Sun's Zenith
+1 Dryad Arbor
I guess +1 TNN which means I have to buy one (yuck)
+1 Daze
+1 Spell Snare
+2 Spell Pierce

So like a big Delver deck?

You can split the difference with 4 Noble/3 GSZ/1 Arbor while still playing 3-4 Forces main a la the old Reid Duke-designed list.

Playing 4 GSZ generally means moving Force side which isn't a thrilling prospect in a new meta.

I'm not sure GSZ is useful enough without Dryad Arbor for T1 ramp. Dryad Arbor isn't a terrible card on its own either, its often useful as a "flash creature".

[KobeBryan]

You can split the difference with 4 Noble/3 GSZ/1 Arbor while still playing 3-4 Forces main a la the old Reid Duke-designed list.

Playing 4 GSZ generally means moving Force side which isn't a thrilling prospect in a new meta.

I'm not sure GSZ is useful enough without Dryad Arbor for T1 ramp. Dryad Arbor isn't a terrible card on its own either, its often useful as a "flash creature".

The old rule of picking 2 out of the 4 no longer holds true because we got enough blue cards with the printing of TNN

[walked]

Anyone have any thoughts on trying the Bant Shardless style of list again post-ban?

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1017367#paper

Very value oriented; combo seems rough but the sideboard seems to be built with that in mind. Considering sleeving this up for a bit while the meta shifts

[The Duck!!]

Has anyone tried bringing back bant aggro back post banning of drs? I’m thinking of 4c splash black for leovold. Maybe 1 or 2 at most.

Thinking of playing around 4 nobles 4 gsz 4 kotr 3 tnn 3-4 sfm 3 equipments 1 ooze 1 pridemage 1-2 leovolds 3 wasteland


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[streetMage]

Sam Black's old GP DC lists looks like a good starting point...
Played zero Deathrite Shaman but still ran 4x True-Name Nemisis, 2x Knight of the Reliquary and 3x Green Sun's Zenith.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=6049&d=235017&f=LE

[Nastaboi]

My first draft:

3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou

3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg

Mana base should be at least +1 Polluted Delta, but I don't want to cut any spell.

[maharis]

OK, so I've come up with a few variants -- with many more in the ol' brain box.... but figure they'd be variants on these. Couple things I've discovered:

1) GSZ is 4 or 0/1. After playing a couple games with the list I posted above, 2 GSZ and 2 "bullets" isn't a good plan. 1+3 is fine, 4 plus either 2 or 3 bullets incl. Dryad Arbor seems OK as well. (Though I don't like trop into GSZ for 0 vs. Wasteland decks)

2) At the same time, there has to be a stronger incentive than just Noble Hierarch to play green at all in a UW stoneblade deck... and that has to be threats, because that's what green is best at. The problem is that any 3-drop G threat competes with TNN for spots. (This includes Leovold, which I'm not planning to bother with at all for right now). So that goes to 2 drops, and there are only three worth considering, IMO: Scavenging Ooze, Qasali Pridemage, and Tarmogoyf.

As a 3-drop, Knight is fine, but this isn't a deck to lean on it (like Maverick would be) because TNN serves the same role with 0 risk of interaction. (Also, that piece of garbage should've been banned). Tireless Tracker and Ramunap Excavator possibly have utility as well, but not at this early date in the new meta, when combo decks figure to reign. I played Ramunap Stifle Bant before DRS was banned. It's strong, but that was in an era where if you could clear DRS, wasteland/canopy recursion was incredibly strong against greedy manabases.

3) And by the way: Because of that -- I don't think it's worth cutting Force from the main right now. Honestly, this deck seems pretty strong in most fair matchups one could imagine, so I see 9-10 sideboard slots going to combo and the rest to shoring up some fair MUs.

4) Rest In Peace is the sticking point. If we want to play it, but Goyf is in our deck, it's probably fair to just board out the goyfs for the RIPs (and maybe another creature like Containment Priest). I have a draft with Goyf and Knight, which I think would eschew RIP for Grafdigger's Cage. Knight is strong enough against Lands and RUG on its own to not need/want the RIP bomb there. I didn't rework the sideboard yet for any of the variants, so I'll post it at the end.

Anyway, here we go. First up: A little heavier with 3x goyf. (Could also go 3 stoneforge, 4 goyf, 2 equips, and another card)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tarmogoyf
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Island

Next: Bigger GSZ package inc. Dryad Arbor. 2 ponder. 18 blue cards for Force.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Spell Snare
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Island

Fourth... No GSZ, but 4x 2cmc utility creatures. Back to 4 ponder to find 'em. Maybe could cut SFM and an Equip for 2 Sylvan Library.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Island

And finally... No SFM. Knight time! Full beatdown with a couple Jitte. Gives us MB karakas.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 True-Name Nemesis
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Island

Current working SB:
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Council's Judgment
1 Sunlance
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pulse of Murasa

[KobeBryan]

This is what I drew up recently.

// Bant

// 60 Maindeck
// 2 Artifact
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

// 15 Creature
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Dryad Arbor
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Knight of the Reliquary

// 15 Instant
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze

// 21 Land
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah

// 2 Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher

// 5 Sorcery
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Ponder


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt

// 6 Creature
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Containment Priest

// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Swan Song

[anwei]

Random thoughts:
- Knight is really interesting because it was made worse by lots of TNN (which leans on the ramping of DRS), Decay (which leans on colors/fixing from DRS), DRS the land-remover, and DRS the mana-fixer (which made Knight->Wasteland worse). It's also comparatively good, for its slot, against many types of combo decks (->Bog, Karakas, Wasteland, + the clock). I think it's stock goes up, but it was pretty far down.

- IMHO, one of the most interesting medium-term meta questions is the future of non-white removal. I expect that as decks get lower to the ground and try to answer that question, the use of Fatal Push heavily affects how relevant Knight is. (And Fatal Push probably depends on Tarmogoyf.) Knight is such a freaking fun card that I hope it is great again.

- In addition to the expected flare-up of GY decks (alongside RIP/Surgical punching those decks down), I expect to see overall less-well-tuned blue tempo/control decks, making room for better-tuned older archetypes, even if they're suboptimal. Midrange creature decks will feel fun and explorable, and get more play than maybe they should. I think Bant is well-positioned against random fair decks. TNN+Blade versions are faster, GSZ versions are bigger, and hybrid-combo versions (my preference) are way bigger.
I think Miracles and combo will prey on the uncertain fair decks. The tutor engines have always made me confident against GY stuff. I haven't tested against new miracles with old Bant. I think it's not great.

- If I was playing tomorrow, and I didn't want to run Retreat (which probably I do), I'd pack 0 SFM, 9+ Counters, 4 GSZ, 2-3 Walkers, and 3 NO + Progenitus in the board. SFM can be fine, but Progenitus wins the grindy games that it does, while dropping the SFM package for more walkers/control helps more against e.g. Miracles.

[HSCK]

I think Noble and Knight are really primed for success with more decks like RUG Delver and D&T coming up. Being able to Zenith for Scooze should also be pretty important.

[maharis]

Well I played two leagues with two different builds and won one match (Lands)

I did lose my first 5 die rolls.

This deck may be good at some point in the future but that time isn't now. It is too hard to beat decks like D&T with all the souped-up toys they've gotten (Recruiter of the Guard going wide with Flickerwisp is not something that was around when this deck was last played at a high level)

Basically you win games where they don't beat you first and you land TNN, but with all the STPs and forces and stifles running around there is not a lot of room right now.

[anwei]

It is too hard to beat decks like D&T with all the souped-up toys they've gotten (Recruiter of the Guard going wide with Flickerwisp is not something that was around when this deck was last played at a high level)

I find Bant w/ combo to have a pretty good DnT match-up, as long as you can cast NO.
FWIW.

[Hanni]

Here's what I've come up with as a starting point...

UGWb Bant Stoneblade

Lands (20)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor

Creatures (18)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Ramunap Excavator

Spells (22)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

The list is a little light on blue count at 19, but that should be do-able, especially since this deck can hit 3UU quicker and easier than other decks.

Counting Dryad Arbor, I have 9 green creatures, which should be enough to support 4 GSZ, I think.

I wanted to fit a Horizon Canopy and Karakas into the deck, but I'd have to cut Wastelands or some non-land cards to fit them I think... so for now, I'm not including them.

The gameplan remains mostly the same as before... turn 1 manadork into a powerful turn 2 play, backed up by Force and Daze/Wasteland. SFM + TNN is still the core creature package.

Not really sure where I want to go with the sideboard just yet. This is where I feel the DRS ban the most, because I used to run Thoughtseize and Zealous Persecution in the board, but I'm not sure if I can afford to do that anymore. Maybe if I also had a 2nd black source in the sideboard? I dunno...

[Seraphix]

Played this in a small event over the weekend (19 players):

Creature Spells (15)
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x True-Name Nemesis
2x Knight of the Reliquary

Noncreature Spells (24)
3x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull

Lands (21)
4x Windswept Heath
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Karakas
3x Wasteland

SB: 2x Faerie Macabre
SB: 2x Meddling Mage
SB: 1x Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1x Swan Song
SB: 1x Spell Pierce
SB: 1x Path to Exile
SB: 1x Reclamation Sage
SB: 1x Detention Sphere
SB: 1x Pithing Needle
SB: 1x Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1x Sylvan Library
SB: 1x Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 1x Vendilion Clique


Nothing fancy with the list but still feels pretty good. Matches were:

Round 1: Eureka Tell W (2-0)
Round 2: UWR Stoneblade W (2-0) (Opponent lost 1st game due to decklist error )
Round 3: Eldrazi W (2-0)
Round 4: Sneak & Show W (2-1)
Round 5: ID
Quarterfinal: Death & Taxes W (2-0)
Semifinal: Burn L (1-2)

[Mr. Safety]

Would Horizon Canopy/Ramanup Excavator be good enough to squeeze in, a-la-New Horizons? I feel like if Excavator was printed during that time they would have used it instead of some number of Crucible.

[Qweerios]

Nice results Seraphix! I play the exact same mainboard except I favor the 4th TNN over the 4th SFM. I find the 4th SFM clunky and the blue count way low already. It is also easier to side out the entire SFM package vs. combo with only 3 SFM. We have wildly different sideboards though so it might be worth discussing. How do you like Macabre over Surgical? What about Cage > RiP? Doesn't it clash with GSZ or is it a concession to Elves? Here is my SB for comparison:

1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Vendillion Clique
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace / Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless


I have long abandoned Meddling Mage in favor of additional Pierce/Fluster and never looked back. QPM#2 is quite useful, especially with all the DnT running about. Garruk is there over SoFaI for grindy/midrange matchups. Dismember is the best piece of CMC1 removal I could find for matchups that I really care about removal and don't want to give away a free basic land (mainly Elves and DnT).

Would Horizon Canopy/Ramanup Excavator be good enough to squeeze in, a-la-New Horizons? I feel like if Excavator was printed during that time they would have used it instead of some number of Crucible.

I think a KotR is always more desirable than a Ramunap in general.

[Qweerios]

Any thoughts on the new Mistcaller as a SB tech against Sneak n Show, Reanimator, Dredge, and Elves? A bit like a quicker, blue, one sided/one time Containment Priest.