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DTBF Philosophy & Deck Selection , June 2011 Update
1, Merfolk
2, Team America
3, Maverick
4, Zoo
5, Painter
6, Sneak Attack
7, Pro Bant
GP Providence Day Two Archetype Breakdown
Merfolk 33
Zoo 16
UW Landstill 13
Bant 8
Team America 8
Dredge 7
Junk 6
Affinity 5
Natural Order Bant 5
Caw-Blade 4
Painted Stone 4
Reanimator 4
Ad Nauseum 3
BW Weenie 3
BUG Landstill 3
Goblins 3
DTBF Philosophy & Deck Selection September 2010 Update
1, Vengevine = 10.7%
2, Merfolk = 8.85%
3, Dredge = 7.16%
4, Goblins = 6.77%
5, Zoo = 6.47%
6, CounterTop = 5.16%
7, TES = 4.54%
8, New Horizons = 4.46%
9, Bant = 4.16%
DTBF Philosophy & Deck Selection August 2010 Update
1, Zoo = 10.08%
2, Merfolk = 8.47%
3, Goblins = 6.45%
4, Bant = 4.84%
5, Landstill = 4.44%
2010-08-01 GP Columbus
Day 2 Metagame Breakdown
Zoo 20
Bant* 16
CounterTop 12
Merfolk 10
Goblins 10
Aluren 7
Land 6
Belcher 6
ANT 5
Landstill 7
*(Including New Horizons and Natural Order variants)
2009-09 ~ 2009-12 DTB Status
1, CounterTop = 164 (Bant CounterTop + Bant NOProg CounterTop = 84)
2, ANT = 155
3, Tempo Threshold = 150
4, Dredge = 140
5, Merfolk = 115
6, Goblin = 107
7, Zoo = 78
8, Faerie = 61
9, Bant Aggro = 59
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2010-03-16, update Mystic Control/Bant deck
2010-03-01, update Pro Bant of GP Madrid Top 8
2010-01-26, update "Sylvan Library"
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Color
(U+G+W)
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Type
Bant Aggro (Aggro-Control)
Pro Bant (Aggro-Control-Combo)
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History
Exalted ability (Noble Hierarch, Qasali Pridemage), creature with artifact/enchantment hate (Qasali Pridemage), and 3cc 3/4 lifelink creature (Rhox War Monk) created this deck.
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Main Deck
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Draw (4~8)
4 x Brainstorm
0~4 x Ponder
0~2 x Sensei's Divining Top
0~2 x Sylvan Library
Counters (7~11)
4 x Force of Will
3~4 x Daze
0~3 x Spell Snare : 1cc against 2cc
0~3 x Spell Pierce : 1cc against noncreature spell
Removal (4~8)
4 x Swords to Plowshares
0~4 x Path to Exile : 1cc remove target creature
Counter/Removal
0~2 x Bant Charm : put on the bottom of library/counter instant spell
Creatures
4 x Noble Hierarch
4 x Tarmogoyf
3~4 x Qasali Pridemage : against artifact/enchantment and exalted
3~4 x Rhox War Monk
0~2 x Trygon Predator : against artifact/enchantment, flying
0~2 x Vendilion Clique : the best 3cc flying blue creature
0~2 x Loaming Shaman
0~4 x Stoneforge Mystic
Combo (Pro Bant only)
3 x Natural Order
1 x Progenitus : 10/10 Protection from everything
0~1 x Dryad Arbor : land creature for Natural Order
Land (18 or 19)
8~9 x Fetch land (Misty Rainforest , Windswept Heath , Flooded Strand)
6~7 x Dual land (Tropical Island , Tundra , Savannah)
1~2 x Island
1~2 x Forest
1~2 x Plains
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Sideboard (15)
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[1] against red-based deck
Blue Elemental Blast , Hydroblast
- Zoo/Burn
- Goblin
[2] destroy artifact/enchantment
Krosan Grip , Trygon Predator
[3] graveyard hate
Tormod's Crypt , Relic of Progenitus , Faerie Macabre
- Dredge
- Aggro Loam
[4] Combo
Gaddock Teeg --> against ANT, Landstill, Stax, etc.
[5] removal
Submerge : best removal against green-based creature
Path to Exile
Engineered Explosives
[6] Other
Umezawa's Jitte
Meddling Mage
Threads of Disloyalty
Divert
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Banned !!
Counterbalance
=> Superme Blue CounterTop, Bant CounterTop, Pro Bant CounterTop => CounterTop Thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reference
- Horizon Canopy + Wasteland + Stifle = New Horizons Thread
- UGW + Survival of the Fittest = Bant Survival Thread
- White tempo threshold = UGw Tempo Thread
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Question :
1. How about these cards in the main deck ?
Creature :
1-1. 0~3 x Knight of the Reliquary
1-2. 0~2 x Sower of Temptation --> 4cc 2/2 flying
1-3. 0~2 x Rafiq of the Many --> 4cc 3/3 exalted
1-4. 0~4 x Nimble Mongoose --> same as UGW threshold
1-5. 0~4 x Spellstutter Sprite --> counter-spell creature
Planeswalker :
1-6. 0~2 x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1-7. 0~2 x Garruk Wildspeaker
1-8, How about this ? one, two, or three ?
Last edited by Tarmogoyf; 12-18-2013 at 08:10 AM.
Decklist check (2010-10-07 updated)
============================================================================
Bant Aggro
============================================================================
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37985
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37883
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37660
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37541
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37318
M11 (2010-07-17)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36979
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36860
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36820
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36725
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36110
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35655
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35635
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35260
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35086
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35073
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34921
Rise of the Eldrazi (2010-04-23)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35651
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34939
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34599
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34587
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34429
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34425
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34421
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34280
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34236
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33883
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33881
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33776 = 23
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33421 = 39
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33414 = 106
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33398 = 46
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33078 = 85
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33070 = 32
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32785 = 32
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32989 = 24
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32724
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32358 = 133
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32356 = 47
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32339 = 20
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32334 = 20
Worldwake (2010-01-30)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32130 = 24
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31806
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31795
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31378 = SCG 5K Los Angeles T16
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31374 = SCG 5K Los Angeles T16
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31323
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31210 = 60
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31085
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30361 = 59
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30250
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30257
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30219
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31125
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30336
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30074
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29486
Zendikar (2009-10-02)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29418 = 283 people
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29361
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29262 = 42
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29261 = 41
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29217
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29160
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28419
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28108
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28101 = 53
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28047 = 76
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27950 = 52
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27946 = 52
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27940 = 116 people
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27805
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27735 = 78
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27732 = 78
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27721 = 132 people
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27628
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27516
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27111 = 60
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27009
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=26615
Alara Reborn (2009-04-30)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=25639 = 83
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=25058
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=23953
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=23426
============================================================================
Pro Bant
============================================================================
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37895
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37820
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37751
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37693
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37665
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37538
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37417
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37412
M11 (2010-07-17)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36875
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36859
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36724
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36702
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36497
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36108
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35902
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35670
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35262
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35112
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34926
Rise of the Eldrazi (2010-04-23)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35648
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34943
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34827
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34634
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34629
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34475
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34433
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33975 = 37
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33755 = 35
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33422 = 39
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32841 ( 2225 GP Madrid )
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32471 = 35
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32351 = 47
Worldwake (2010-01-30)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32146 = 24
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31937 = 65
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31932 = 69
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31819 = 88
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31257 = 45
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31190
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30455 = 72
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30283
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29643
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29603
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29511 = 112 people
Zendikar (2009-10-02)
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29166
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28752 = 46
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28686
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27999 = 95
Last edited by Tarmogoyf; 10-07-2010 at 10:28 AM.
Finally, a Bant thread. There are some things you can do to improve it.
I think you should post up some match up analysis and SB plans.
You should also explain the advantage and disadvantage of NO/Pro in Bant aggro.
Another big thing I know everyone would ask is why ditching CounterTop, so you should post your reasons as well.
Just my 2 cents trying to make this thread better.
I think that NO/Pro is probably the best thing for the deck. I like that they worry about Goyf and War Monk that they dont see Prog coming. Also if you are going to run NO/Pro, you definitely need Dryad Arbor in the deck. The fact you can fetch out something to sac. Yeah losing a Heirarch isn't a huge deal, but sometimes they just arent there. Also most decks can't deal with Prog.
I run CounterTop as well. The fact the deck runs 1-5 mana costs makes it very nice. Yeah 3-5 are on the slim, but they are still in the deck if needed.
For sideboarding...I like to actually side out CounterTop because a lot of decks will bring in hate for it. Then they sit there holding K. Grip or whatever with nothing to hit.
Check out my Articles
Hello,
I think Divert is a good choice for the SB against Discard and else. Sorry if i´am wrong.
I think Daze needs justification in this deck, especially because it seems to play differently than other variants.
Also, what makes a deck "Bant Aggro" / "Pro Bant"? Is this list Pro Bant? http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=30742
Level 2 Judge
Owner, Tales of Adventure Comics and Games, Coopersburg, PA
Why is counterbalance 'banned' for this deck? I realize that it is suboptimal against some decks but it is back breaking in others. What do you do aagainst Ant or T.E.S without balance? I mean I find that its really one of the only ways to do it.
If you run Counterbalance, then your deck is a Counterbalance variant.
"Bant Aggro" refers to the more aggressive variants that skip CB in favor of a stronger beatdown plan.
Incidentally, Rhox War Monk provides a similar clock to Counterbalance. Turn 1 Hierarch, turn 2 RWM, turn 3 swing forces your opponent to come up with like 11-12 storm for the kill. With more swings, it becomes impossible to win off of Ad Nauseum (due to low life), and impossible to kill you with IGG or other methods (due to your high life), so you win.
Clearly bant aggro does worse against TES than the CB lists, but it's not unwinnable by any means. Also, no matter what happens, you're opening with Force and Daze in the main, so you can always salvage the combo matchups with board material.
Is 3 ponder to much? I like 2.
wouldn't you wanna play with 4 natural order cause it's so good? If they counter one cast the next, and if they're not playin counters ... win ... it's faster!
Why trygon and pridemage why not just pick the better one and be consistent?
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
TP is better against Stax and multiple Enchantment/Artifact decks. It also dodges Firespout vs Japanese Supreme Blue.Originally Posted by That nice guy
QP is better for "Kill it now" and has Exalted.
The singleton of TP is so if you absolutely must, you can NO for it. For Bant Aggro, I wouldn't run Rafiq because of his vulnerability to bolt and no way to recur him like you can in Survival builds.
EDIT: Also, running 3 copies is fine. You can cantrip into it. It's 4 mana, which can be a chore sometimes, so if you don't have 4 mana, it's kinda dead. The deck is supposed to be solid without it is what I gathered.
The opponent can always payfor Firespout to kill Predator in game one. I doubt it would stay in game two.
I know. But it could kill theirs too if they played it, ya know? And Stax could always O-Ring it. Or in some builds, Maze of Ith it forever. I guess the JSB point was too weak of an argument, so I stand corrected.The opponent can always pay
I think it was you who originally shot down Rafiq in some other post saying something about how your "bomb" being Bolt-able is really lackluster. And I agree for this deck.
Was I? I don't remember that, but I'm flattered someone does.
Allow me to change my opinion somewhat based on metagame considerations. Rafiq is probably an interesting sideboard card, but it's debatable as to whether or not he's better than other options. For one thing, he's not very good against Zoo, for obvious reasons. However, in the mirror he seems like he could be rather backbreaking, especially if you've got Vendillion Clique, Predator, or RWM. In the former two cases, he represents a huge amount of damage in the air, making it difficult to race with Progenitus if the opponent has taken any prior damage; in the latter case, he makes it virtually impossible to race because of the dramatic life swings in your favor (and RMW with a 4/5 body and double strike will almost certainly punch through any opposing Tarmogoyfs). He can be quite good as a surprise finisher against control, and at four mana he's not easy to EE. Finally, he seems better in a way against combo since he can win faster than Progenitus by allowing a preexisting Tarmogoyf to swing when he comes down for 8+, but it's somewhat of a moot point because you're less interested in firing off Natural Order than in just beating the stuffing out of the other guy as quickly as possible.
Basically, he seems really good in the matchups where it won't take much work to protect him, if only because he wins Goyf wars, and wins them HARD. However, it's questionable whether you'd want him in the sideboard over Empyrial Archangel, which is better against Zoo and burn decks than Progenitus because it keeps you from getting burned out and has flying to mimic the unblockability of protection. In most cases, I don't think he's actively bad; he's just not good enough.
Firespout is the best way against Merfolk/Zoo/Goblin, so I decide to add red color into Bant aggo, like SupermeBlue without coutertop.
Firespout Bant (UGWR)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Rhox War Monk
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Trygon Predator
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Firespout
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
Given just how ridiculously overpowered NO seems in the deck, I would consider playing 4 Natural Order, along with a single Rafiq of the Many to go along side it. I see that some decks already are playing Rafiq (since it's an excellent fit in the deck) but still aren't playing the 4th NO. Most of the time, the 4cc for the NO gets you Progenitus, which is just an absurdly good deal. But it can grab Rafiq as a back up when needed too.
The main advantage of that is that even if you have a Progenitus in hand, and can cast NO, you still have something very strong to get with it. But also...
There's a number of situations where you would actually prefer to grab Rafiq with NO rather than Progenitus (when you're dangerously low on life but have a RMW in play that would really benefit from Rafiq and doublestrike), or when you can win the game that very same turn against combo or something, but only if you NO for Rafiq instead of Progenitus.
Last edited by Tarmogoyf; 04-08-2010 at 11:41 PM.
If you look at the apathy house prices on natural order, you'll see there was a really large spike in prices last month which has since subsided: http://apathyhouse.com/pricelist/pri...Order&x=0&y=0#
DeckCheck 2010-06-07
Bant Aggro
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35655
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35651
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35635
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35260
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35086
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35073
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34939
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34921
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34599
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34587
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34429
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34425
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34421
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34280
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34236
Pro Bant
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35902
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35670
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35648
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35262
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35112
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34943
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34926
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34827
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34634
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34629
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34475
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34433
Recommendation Top 8 Deck (2010-10)
Bant Aggro
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Savannah
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ponder
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Umezawa's Jitte
count:60
3 Meddling Mage
3 Spell Pierce
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
count:15
Remove Rhox War Monk
Remove Daze
Add Knight of the Reliquary
Add Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Add Wasteland
Is there anyway we could get a forum for bant and one for pro bant due to the huge differences in play style and deck design?
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