Hey joylusa, thanks. I remember you getting some nice finishes last year! Glad you're still with the deck. Got any more tournaments coming up soon?Originally Posted by joylusa
Yeah I do, the last weekend of april I got a hole weekend tournament. it will be the new edition of the big tournament I won last year (170-250 ppl).
I need to find something to beat elves. This machup is just awfull, for winning it I just have to draw perfectly and my opo must draw shit. I tried to run perish but it is not enough.
Lets see if tsmiley post his list and we can see his new sideboard.
I will post all my new ideas for the mb and the sb.
Here is the tournament report on the Top8 finish by the Dark Bant player!
https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com/banter-in-paris/
I hope you all enjoy it!
Sib
Sorry for the late reply! Here is my list and some changes I'd like to make.
4 deathrite shaman
3 noble Hierarch
4 stoneforge mystic
4 true-name nemesis
2 leovold
4 brainstorm
4 daze
4 force of Will
2 stifle
2 abrupt decay
2 swords to plowshares
2 jace the mindsculptor
1 batterskull
1 sword of fire and ice
1 umezawa's jitte
4 wasteland
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
3 tropical island
2 tundra
2 underground sea
1 scrubland
I went down to 7 dorks again because miracles was target 1 and noble isn't the best in that matchup. Two decay is fine especially when the good miracles pilots are siding out counter balance against decay decks. Stifle was gas for me all day.
Sideboard:
2 zealous Persecution
2 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
1 containment priest
1 Gideon ally of zendikar
1 invasive surgery
2 meddling mage
1 pithing needle
1 vendilion clique
2 thoughtseize
Really close to the list I ran in Baltimore- I really wish I had a canonist somewhere in the side.
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4-0'd my LGS tonight with the following list:
UGwb Nobleblade
Lands (21)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
Creatures (20)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Spells (19)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Batterskull
Sideboard (15)
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
4 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Painful Truths
1 Containment Priest
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
My matchups were:
2-0 UG Infect
2-0 Br Reanimator
2-1 RUG Threshold
2-1 Burn
My sideboard might be overkilled on combo hate... not really sure. I could probably trim down 1-2 Thoughtseize, but I don't know what I would want to replace them with. I do like all of the other cards in my board, though.
I like the SoFI in the board better than main. In most of the matchups where I want 3 equipment, I want them in postboard games after they bring in artifact removal (vs Miracles, D&T, Elves, etc).
The Clique's in the main were great, as was the Karakas. Both were relevant in the Br Reanimator matchup. Clique was good against Infect. Didn't play any grindy matchups to really get value out of Karakas with Clique/Leo, but the deck overall felt great.
This archetype is super sweet; the 8 mana dork plan is great.
Last edited by Hanni; 04-21-2017 at 01:24 AM.
Nice result!
Clique is indeed great in the deck, I used to play two MD before Leovold was printed. I'm trying to find a way to get another into my sideboard at least, I couldn't cut the Jaces from the main with the dork plan I think. I do like that it's more combo interaction in the md, though.
I don't think you're overloaded on combo hate, there are a lot of bad cards in the main, we need to have a big board to take them all out.
I've been deliberating over Sword being in the main or side loads recently, but ultimately have been liking it in the main to give us another big bomb vs Miracles game one. It's so important in that matchup to make Nobles into real threats, and close it out quickly before we draw too many of our bad cards.
Jace is a super powerful card, but I decided not to run it because I don't feel like this deck needs anymore midrange grindy cards maindeck. Even with the mana dorks, this deck can still be a little slow and clunky, and it has tons of midrange power already; Stoneforge + Leo for CA and TNN + equips is powerful enough as-is.
I wouldn't mind having Jace postboard for grindy matchups, but most of the grindy matchups right now have Red Blasts postboard, so I felt that Painful Truths was better for that role.
I don't disagree that SoFI is strong against Miracles, but 3 equipment feels a liitle overkill in most game 1's, and Jitte strapped to a Hierarch makes Hierarch a serious threat against Miracles too. I prefer Jitte over SoFI against the Mentor plan, although the recent trend has been back to Entreat maindeck instead, so that's a moot point for game 1. Ultimately, I'm happy with SoFI in the sideboard, but I don't think it is wrong to run it main either.
I've been playing the deck online quite a bit- anyone have any uncommon sideboard cards vs elves? I know we have access to perish and cursed totem- but I'm trying to get that matchup to be close- I think in my last 4 leagues I've lost to elves a total of 5 times
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My best success against elves has always come from boarding against glimpse of nature specifically: 1x ZP, 2 MMage, 1x Canonist, and then leaning on my maindeck counters for NO, and equipment and TNN to overcome their generic beatdown plan. It isn't perfect, but I like this approach to the matchup; Based on my opener and first draw, I try to play the game so they can only beat me using one of their three paths, and see if they recognize the available path and then have the cards to do it. We are a dog in game 1, and I don't have a strategy that I like for getting the postboard games to 70%+ you need to make the overall matchup favorable, but I think this board plan gives you a reasonable chance.
I have played humility and moat from time to time, depending on my build at that time. Those are both cards that have metagame value and help the matchup significantly, but I can't really advocate them over other cards at the moment. Humility plus equipment is outstanding in a field of elves, aluren, food chain, and Sneak and show. It is also extremely good against most of the current miracles builds, making Jace their only real threat. If you are looking for a card to test, break that one out. Running an event where you cut your gideon and 1 ZP/Clique for 2 humility, will let you have plenty of access and see if it is something you want as a 0,1, or 2 of. That is the best suggestion I have.
Perish is strong against Elves, but too symmetrical. Killing our own mana dorks + Leovold is bad.
Right now, I board in 2 Meddling Mage, 1 Containment Priest, 2 Zealous Persecution, 1 Sword of Fire and Ice.
The best answer to Elves is Engineered Plague, period. It also has use against D&T and Grixis Delver naming humans. Although irrelevant, it's also good against Goblins. I think Zealous Persecution is a more versatile card for the sideboard, but if you want dedicated Elves hate, Plague is as good as it gets.
Yesterday, i played the deck the first time in a tournament. Used the bom-list of whitefaces and managed to achieve a 3-2. Not very impressive, but i would like to give some feedback.
Vs death&taxes: 2-0 win (game 1 mana dork into tnn, game 2: mana dork, daze a stp, t2 mana dork, t3 jace. Brainstorming each turn and a devastating zealous persecution ended the game comfortably).
Vs white eldrazi&taxes: 2-1 win (both wins after a stalled boardstate by vialing in equipment for tnn. Lost to stax elements game 2(both thalias on board with only fetches in hand, that entered tapped and fetch tapped duals)
Vs imperial painter: 1-2 loss ( awesome match, grindy, lost t5 of extra turns. Game 1 had to mulligan to a mediocre hand, opponent had all the tools he needed to finish me of quickly. Game 2 the mana dorks were awesome, managed to surgical extract painter servant while deathrite and hierarch produced abrupt decay mana to destroy blood moon. Opponent was hellbent having a bridge, but noble hierarch with a jitte managed to attack through it, dealing 5 per turn. Game 3 pretty much the same like game 2, although i didn't see surgical extraction. Opponent managed to get rid of hierarch and deployed a blood moon. Finally he found the painter and he milled me. Didn't draw a fow :(). The opponent won the tournament
Vs a black devotion deck(blue splash): 2:0 win (he had alot of sweeper, even in the main, trying to finish off with tombstalker/phyrexian obliterator. Post board i faced a no mercy. Jace bounced a tombstalker which won match 1. Match 2 was won by the equipment. Facing no mercy, jitte and sofai on board, equipped stm, deathrite and hierarch did their damaged before being destroyed by no mercy.
Vs deathblade/bant: 0:2 (pretty much the mirror -4 hierarchs - 4 daze, + discard, ponder, more early disruption. Game 1 mull to 5. Opponent had a quick tnn, i had mana dorks....later the opponent had 2 tnn+deathrite, i had batterskull and deathrite online which didn't help. Game 2: just outvalued me. Late mana dorks and lands were bad draws, while he played stm into batterskull, leovold and jace. I have to admit that i tilted a little. While i couldn't make any tempo plays, the opponent had the answers and the top end gas).
Overall the deck was awesome. I only lost big in the mirror. What is the sideboard plan here? +2 thoughtseizes, +1 clique, +2 zealous persecution? I boarded out jace because of the tnn, wrong?
I tried persish but it is not enough to beat them, crused totem make us a lot of damage to, so I dont think it is a good solution. elves is my worst muchup so far and i ve been trying to find something to balance this muchup. I lose like 4 of my last 6 games vs elfes. I ve been thinking about playing 3 zealous as d&t is beeng more common.
Next weekend I ll be in a big tournament so I will inform you about any updated list.
joy
Jace isn't there for this extra 'midrange power' necessarily, it's very important to have another angle of attack to fight Miracles on that doesn't die to Terminus. I think without PWers you'll struggle in the MU. I'm trying to find a configuration to fit a second Gideon in the SB, it might come by swapping a True-Name in the MD with a Clique so there's one less card to board out vs combo.
Yeah, I play it similarly. Use Meddling Mage to either turn off NO or Glimpse depending on the board state. It's not a great matchup, but the deck has the tools to beat it between discard, hate bears, countermagic and jitte. I feel like it's a case of midrange decks vs combo though, we have to draw the right part of our deck in the right order to beat their draw.
Humility is an interesting idea. Narrow, but very powerful. I think Aluren and Food Chain are good matchups for Bant, but Sneak and Show can be troublesome too.
Thanks for giving it a go. Painter can be tough, as can all Moon decks, sometimes you're not able to get the dorks out there fast enough.
In the mirror you definitely don't want to be cutting Jace and True-Names. They're two of the best cards. Thoughtseize is only good vs Stoneforge Mystic, and you want to have as many live draws as possible later in the game so I don't think I'd board them in. You can fight Equipment with your own equipment theoretically, and so you don't bank on TS lining up well with their draw.
I'd probably go
+2 Zealous Persecution
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
-2 Force of Will
-2 Daze
Totem also hits our DRS, Hierarch and SfM, not an option I think.
A third ZP might be a good idea! Not sure how to make the space in the SB though.
I've found making a SB for this deck to be quite hard since there are so many poor cards vs combo in the md (SfM, equipment, TTN, StP, Decay...) that there needs to be that many slots to bring in. I've only got Gideon and the two ZP dedicated to fair matchups at the moment.
Best of luck in your tournament! Looking forward to hearing about you taking it down ;)
I have a big tournament next week too, the winner gets flights and accommodation plus byes to GP Vegas.
Miracles matchup? What is that?
Brush up on your elves matchup folks.
Snap reaction: With the top banning, I expect more fast combo, delver and elves for the next month or so while things shake out. I think I am happy about this change, but I will be curious to see where the format goes. I expect UW to run walkers and stoneforge-equipment for a while as win cons, so I would pack a Kgrip and a council's judgment for a while. I would also think this lowers the value of decay in our deck vs StP, and probably means going back to 4 swords is right for a while, moving the decays back to the board and shallowing the black splash a bit in favor of better mana or a basic again.
Elves is definitely a matchup to address. I will be cutting the Painful Truth and 1 Thoughtseize for 2 Engineered Plague in my sideboard.
I still like a 3/2 (StP/Decay) split on the removal. Decay destroys Jitte and other problematic permanents, so there is still value in them.
Storm and elves get a huge boost- engineered plagues and ethersworn canonist look really good for sb slots.
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Thanks for the feedback, Whitefaces. Just to clarify, i didn't board out TNN. I boarded out Jace because i thought he couldn't be protected reasonably. I will stick with your sideboard plan next time.
As for the Painter matchup....who knows how many Painter decks will be left after the Top-ban? One blood moon deck less to worry about? Probably Stoneblade-variants will be on the rise again.
Touche :D
Agree with you guys, time to pack some Plagues! I think we can go back to a full set of Swords to Plowshares in the maindeck too and cut down the Underground Sea count to one.
EDIT: Sorry limbo, just realized you said the exact same thing! Glad we're on the same page.
I'm very worried about the splash damage of -1-1 effects though, might hit us quite hard.
Indeed, though I always found that equipment is highly protective in those situations making us slightly more resilient than the average creature deck.
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