[Deck] Bant

[Whitefaces]

Indeed, though I always found that equipment is highly protective in those situations making us slightly more resilient than the average creature deck.

True true, maybe I'm overreacting. We can always Gideon ultimate too

[Hanni]

Zealous Persecution in response to a Zealous Persecution? lol...

[Manipulato]

Hey guys,
I'm tinkering about playing this deck in the new meta because I think it's good positioned.

How would you guys build your 75 now? Could you post your new lists? Would be cool!

I'm especially interested for the manabase configuration and SB because I think that the MD will not change that much exept for the full 4 Swords instead of a AD /Swords split, right?

Edit: I'm not 100% sure you guys really want Engineered Plague vs Elves as your #1 hate card tbh. The deck plays quite alot of non-elve dudes (4 Symbiotes/2 Dryad Arbor/1 Scavenging Ooze/2 Behemoth) or x/2's in form of 4 Shaman & 4 Sentinel which dont die to the plague. Other thing is it's more slow at cc3 than Zealous Persecution or similar effects & can be killed by AD or Reclamation Sage out of Green Suns Zenith. A small creature count is already enough to Behemoth us into death...I think cards like Containment Priest/Zealous Persecution/Ethersworn Canonist will be more efficient vs them.
How do you guys see that?

[Hanni]

Hey guys,
I'm tinkering about playing this deck in the new meta because I think it's good positioned.

How would you guys build your 75 now? Could you post your new lists? Would be cool!

I'm especially interested for the manabase configuration and SB because I think that the MD will not change that much exept for the full 4 Swords instead of a AD /Swords split, right?

My list was slightly unconventional to begin with, but I'll keep running the same maindeck, with only minimal changes to my sideboard based on how the meta shifts.

My list was posted on the previous page.

[TSmiley]

Hey guys,
I'm tinkering about playing this deck in the new meta because I think it's good positioned.

How would you guys build your 75 now? Could you post your new lists? Would be cool!

I'm especially interested for the manabase configuration and SB because I think that the MD will not change that much exept for the full 4 Swords instead of a AD /Swords split, right?

Edit: I'm not 100% sure you guys really want Engineered Plague vs Elves as your #1 hate card tbh. The deck plays quite alot of non-elve dudes (4 Symbiotes/2 Dryad Arbor/1 Scavenging Ooze/2 Behemoth) or x/2's in form of 4 Shaman & 4 Sentinel which dont die to the plague. Other thing is it's more slow at cc3 than Zealous Persecution or similar effects & can be killed by AD or Reclamation Sage out of Green Suns Zenith. A small creature count is already enough to Behemoth us into death...I think cards like Containment Priest/Zealous Persecution/Ethersworn Canonist will be more efficient vs them.
How do you guys see that?

I am planning on playing plague in addition to the mentioned cards- a lot of the trouble elves can get us into are value loops with symb/visionary which plague stops- or dryad arbor quirion ranger blocking loops to stop jitte counters. It also overloads their abrupt decays with jitte/leovold/meddling mage/plague.


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[Hanni]

Hey guys,
I'm tinkering about playing this deck in the new meta because I think it's good positioned.

How would you guys build your 75 now? Could you post your new lists? Would be cool!

I'm especially interested for the manabase configuration and SB because I think that the MD will not change that much exept for the full 4 Swords instead of a AD /Swords split, right?

Edit: I'm not 100% sure you guys really want Engineered Plague vs Elves as your #1 hate card tbh. The deck plays quite alot of non-elve dudes (4 Symbiotes/2 Dryad Arbor/1 Scavenging Ooze/2 Behemoth) or x/2's in form of 4 Shaman & 4 Sentinel which dont die to the plague. Other thing is it's more slow at cc3 than Zealous Persecution or similar effects & can be killed by AD or Reclamation Sage out of Green Suns Zenith. A small creature count is already enough to Behemoth us into death...I think cards like Containment Priest/Zealous Persecution/Ethersworn Canonist will be more efficient vs them.
How do you guys see that?

Engineered Plague is most certainly the best Elves hate available. The only thing it doesn't kill is Deathrite Shaman, Nettle Sentinel, and Wirewood Symbiote. Plague isn't unbeatable, but it is devestating regardless.

Firstly, Plague wipes most of their board. Then, it sticks around to shut them down until they find an Abrupt Decay. Even if they do, the damage is already done. If they don't have an immediate Abrupt Decay, we are likely so far ahead on board that it won't matter if/when they finally do.

If you're skeptical, I recommend trying it before criticizing it. Or just ask some Elves players what they think.

[Manipulato]

Engineered Plague is most certainly the best Elves hate available. The only thing it doesn't kill is Deathrite Shaman, Nettle Sentinel, and Wirewood Sentinel. Plague isn't unbeatable, but it is devestating regardless.

Firstly, Plague wipes most of their board. Then, it sticks around to shut them down until they find an Abrupt Decay. Even if they do, the damage is already done. If they don't have an immediate Abrupt Decay, we are likely so far ahead on board that it won't matter if/when they finally do.

If you're skeptical, I recommend trying it before criticizing it. Or just ask some Elves players what they think.

I played the card on my own in Food Chain and I'm well aware of what it does and what not, your 2nd sentence was superfluous, but thx for the input

[Whitefaces]

Hey guys,
I'm tinkering about playing this deck in the new meta because I think it's good positioned.

How would you guys build your 75 now? Could you post your new lists? Would be cool!

I'm especially interested for the manabase configuration and SB because I think that the MD will not change that much exept for the full 4 Swords instead of a AD /Swords split, right?

Edit: I'm not 100% sure you guys really want Engineered Plague vs Elves as your #1 hate card tbh. The deck plays quite alot of non-elve dudes (4 Symbiotes/2 Dryad Arbor/1 Scavenging Ooze/2 Behemoth) or x/2's in form of 4 Shaman & 4 Sentinel which dont die to the plague. Other thing is it's more slow at cc3 than Zealous Persecution or similar effects & can be killed by AD or Reclamation Sage out of Green Suns Zenith. A small creature count is already enough to Behemoth us into death...I think cards like Containment Priest/Zealous Persecution/Ethersworn Canonist will be more efficient vs them.
How do you guys see that?

Hey! Glad you're thinking of coming over to this, I agree that it looks quite well positioned, my only worry is an uptick in -1-1 effects like we talked about on the last page. But we'll see.

I need to work on a SB still, so this is subject to change, but I think my maindeck to start now will be the below.

The noticeable differences are.

1) Removed the Abrupt Decays and went back to the full set of Swords to Plowshares, I think this change is obvious.
2) Removed the Sword of Fire and Ice, from the maindeck at least. With Miracles gone it loses a lot of value, I think we need to see how the meta shapes up. If there's a lot of 4c control and TNN then it'll come back.
3) Basic Forest. There's a good chance both Delver and Lands see a lot more play which will punish our manabase more than before. I'm considering a Loam in the SB for this reason too.

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Batterskull

2 spare slots, possibly Ponder or Stifle

3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
9 fetch
1 Forest

[mike1987]

Hey! Glad you're thinking of coming over to this, I agree that it looks quite well positioned, my only worry is an uptick in -1-1 effects like we talked about on the last page. But we'll see.

I need to work on a SB still, so this is subject to change, but I think my maindeck to start now will be the below.

The noticeable differences are.

1) Removed the Abrupt Decays and went back to the full set of Swords to Plowshares, I think this change is obvious.
2) Removed the Sword of Fire and Ice, from the maindeck at least. With Miracles gone it loses a lot of value, I think we need to see how the meta shapes up. If there's a lot of 4c control and TNN then it'll come back.
3) Basic Forest. There's a good chance both Delver and Lands see a lot more play which will punish our manabase more than before. I'm considering a Loam in the SB for this reason too.

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Batterskull

2 spare slots, possibly Ponder or Stifle

3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
9 fetch
1 Forest

Nice list, maybe this is where i will start too! i think our weaker match-ups are lands and combo like Storm, Sneak Show, elves so maybe our sideboard can be tailored more towards it.

2 Flusterstorm (elves, Show and tell, storm, reanimator)
2 Engineered Plague (elves, Dnt, tribal)
1 Containment Priest (dredge, br reanimator, elves)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice (opposing TNN, creature decks)
1 Pithing Needle (catch all)
2 Thoughtseize (combo)
2 Surgical extraction (combo, graveyard)
2 Abrupt Decay (catch all, delver, creatures)
1 Garruk, Relentless (grindy matches, shardless, bug)
1 Zealous Persecution (TNN decks, elves, DnT)

What do you guys think?

[Whitefaces]

Nice list, maybe this is where i will start too! i think our weaker match-ups are lands and combo like Storm, Sneak Show, elves so maybe our sideboard can be tailored more towards it.

2 Flusterstorm (elves, Show and tell, storm, reanimator)
2 Engineered Plague (elves, Dnt, tribal)
1 Containment Priest (dredge, br reanimator, elves)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice (opposing TNN, creature decks)
1 Pithing Needle (catch all)
2 Thoughtseize (combo)
2 Surgical extraction (combo, graveyard)
2 Abrupt Decay (catch all, delver, creatures)
1 Garruk, Relentless (grindy matches, shardless, bug)
1 Zealous Persecution (TNN decks, elves, DnT)

What do you guys think?

Yeah, I agree on those matchups being the ones we should concentrate on!

I want some Meddling Mages in my sideboard I'm sure, that card is always an all star. After that I really like Canonist too as Storm and Elves look like they will be big.

I'd like to try and not dedicate too many slots to fair matchups, if anything a Gideon or two, but our MD is quite well set up for that and we also have those two spare MD slots at the moment.

I'll go over numbers and options when I get a chance

[TSmiley]

I like keeping sofi main with what I think will be an uptick in tnn decks. I went 4-1 in a league yesterday only losing to slivers... crystalline sliver is pretty good.

I played 4 swords 2 decay main because decay is still great against Delver.


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[Hanni]

I still like running a couple of Decay main, too. It still deals with a great deal of things, from Jitte to Chalice. I've been pretty happy with 3 StP and 2 Decay myself, but 4/2 would be even better if the meta goes aggro heavy and combo light.

[joylusa]

I like keeping sofi main with what I think will be an uptick in tnn decks. I went 4-1 in a league yesterday only losing to slivers... crystalline sliver is pretty good.

I played 4 swords 2 decay main because decay is still great against Delver.


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I think im going to play 3 stp 2 decays and keep playing without forest. My main doubt is to play or not stifles. And side board should get some changes.
I will let you know my ideas

Joy

[limbo]

A card that I think should be on peoples' radars to include in the deck over the next few weeks is judge's familiar. Haven't settled on a configuration yet, but I always liked this one when combo and burn are popular. In a world where Delver rises, lingering souls is also worth keeping in mind. Just putting those ones out there because they have not seen play in a while but might be primed for a come back.

Example of a pure bant list that I think might be reasonable:

Land (19)
4x Flooded Strand
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Savannah
3x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
4x Wasteland
2x Windswept Heath

Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Planeswalker (2)
2x Gideon of the Trials

Creature (16)
3x Judge's Familiar
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x True-Name Nemesis
1x Vendilion Clique

Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4x Ponder

Sideboard (15)
1x Chill
1x Disenchant
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Flusterstorm
1x Garruk Relentless Flip
1x Invasive Surgery
1x Krosan Grip
2x Meddling Mage
1x Path to Exile
1x Rest in Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Sword of Feast and Famine

[drocker23]

I think these lists don't have enough removal for early deathrite shaman which i think is something you will want to focus on beating no matter what deck you're playing. Expect an uptick in deathrite shaman and combo decks.

[Whitefaces]

I think these lists don't have enough removal for early deathrite shaman which i think is something you will want to focus on beating no matter what deck you're playing. Expect an uptick in deathrite shaman and combo decks.

I've not really found DRS to be as threatening vs Bant than from other shells. Because of the equipment and our own Shamans its late game power is severely mitigated. You can afford to leave them around a lot more than you can from a Delver deck as we're not trying to disrupt the opponent, but to establish our own game plan which is usually far superior. Just a bit harder to set up. And anyway, a full set of StP, Jitte and some people are playing Decays still, it's not nothing.

Combo on the other hand is a worry, I'm considering either a pair of Spell Pierce or Stifles ala TSmiley in the maindeck.

[TSmiley]

I agree- our own drs counter drs from Delver quite well. Also- I don't think judges familiar is where we want to be unless you want to play a trest shell with the 1gu 2/2 that makes your guys damaging ophidians.


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[Hanni]

Combo on the other hand is a worry, I'm considering either a pair of Spell Pierce or Stifles ala TSmiley in the maindeck.

Vendilion Clique is a pretty strong card against combo that does good work in alot of other matchups...

[Whitefaces]

Vendilion Clique is a pretty strong card against combo that does good work in alot of other matchups...

It is, but there are already a lot of three drops. If we add a Clique to the main it's in the slot of a TNN, Leovold or Jace I think. I don't like the sound of that as all of those look set to be great in this new meta.

[Mirrislegend]

Without Miracles demanding lots of Abrupt Decay between the maindeck and the sideboard, what will our removal package evolve into? Is it worthwhile to still play any Abrupt Decays? What about Fatal Push? I'm also fond of Disfigure, as it hits Deathrite (!), Delver, Pyromancer, Monastery Mentor, Stoneforge, Baleful Strix, Aluren combo pieces, all of Burn's creatures, all of DnT's creatures (besides Crusader), and all of Elves' creatures (besides Craterhoof), and probably more.

I'm thinking 4 StP and 2 Decay MD, with 2 Disfigure and maybe a Krosan Grip or two in the SB.

Lastly, isn't Engineered Plague fairly narrow? Unless you expect truly overwhelming numbers of Elves or Death and Taxes, I cannot see justifying more than 1 in the SB. Zealous Persecution is just so much more flexible.