[Deck] Bant

[maharis]

It may also be the way I view this deck. To me, this deck is a big tempo deck reminiscent of New Horizons, except obviously much better. To me, this deck is as much or more of an aggro deck than it is a control deck. Blue Maverick, if you will. A better Maverick, in my opinion. But at the same time, it's big tempo, so it's also like a midrange Delver deck in a way. Either way, Jace just doesn't really seem suited to those plans, for me.

I've always viewed the deck the same way, and even used the same term "big tempo" to a lot of blank stares.

I'm considering bringing back classic hierarch/zenith bant with some RIPs in the side. Not sure if that means I would play Knight/Goyf and board them out when RIPs come in, but I think this deck has some possibility at being a good RIP deck with hierarch/sfm/tnn/clique/trygon predator? and fighting the DRS decks on that axis.

[Hanni]

It comes down and +1 to get out of bolt range while taking the edge off of one of their creatures. So if resolved, it costs RUG at least a card and a creature attack to remove. If they don't kill it you have the option of slowing them, making an emblem, or pressuring. The importance of the emblem against the RUG is that we often stabilize between 5-1 life against them, and then have to fade a burn spell while we turn the corner and kill them. The emblem, especially if it is on 4 loyalty locks out that lane for them almost entirely. The argument can be made that Leo is a better card against RUG, but it only earns 1 card against a bolt, and can't profitably interact in combat against them at all. Gideon plays the angles well, and I already traded for 2 so I can run them this weekend.

Also of note, gideon emblem is a straight G1 lock against several combo decks including ANT.

It may turn out that there are too many swarm decks, abrupt decays, trample creatures, and walking ballistas out there to really make it worth a spot, but it looks really good right now. Since we have TNN and a tempo build, buying 1 turn with him could well be all that it takes to swing a lot of games.

I can understand Gideon against combo, sure, but RUG Delver seems like one the abosulte worst places for it.

The challenge against RUG Delver isn't about needing more powerful cards; we've already got those. The problem with RUG Delver is in casting those cards in a relevant timeframe. The manabase is built to produce UU, not WW.

Nimble Mongoose blanks the +1, then smacks in and ruins your day. The 4/4 gets stonewalled by Tarmogoyf. Delver smacks in the air to knock it down to 1 counter after you +1 and then make an Emblem, so if they Bolt, they are only trading 1 for 1.

I'd rather play Knight of the Reliquary if I wasn't satisfied with TNN for whatever reason, which isn't the case.

Pure and simple: new Gideon is awful against RUG Delver. But if you disagree, feel free to try it out; there's no harm in playtesting things.

[Hanni]

I've always viewed the deck the same way, and even used the same term "big tempo" to a lot of blank stares.

I'm considering bringing back classic hierarch/zenith bant with some RIPs in the side. Not sure if that means I would play Knight/Goyf and board them out when RIPs come in, but I think this deck has some possibility at being a good RIP deck with hierarch/sfm/tnn/clique/trygon predator? and fighting the DRS decks on that axis.

I run 1 Rest in Peace in my board already. There is very little clash with only 4 Deathrites, and in the matchups where I want RIP, I'm fine with shutting off my Deathrites. I like my current split of graveyard hate to not want more than 1, but my point is, you don't need to cut DRS to run RIP in the board.

Also, I think SFM + TNN > Goyf + KoTR.

[Whitefaces]

I run 1 Rest in Peace in my board already. There is very little clash with only 4 Deathrites, and in the matchups where I want RIP, I'm fine with shutting off my Deathrites. I like my current split of graveyard hate to not want more than 1, but my point is, you don't need to cut DRS to run RIP in the board.

Also, I think SFM + TNN > Goyf + KoTR.

I agree with you on both points, I have a RiP in the board too and am fine clashing with DRS.

I managed to run the list through a league on MTGO quickly. Feels good, but I played vs Chalice twice and having only a single Decay in the 75 was very noticeable. I think 2 maindeck is still warranted, at least until we're more sure what people are doing.

I'm not sure to cut a Swords to Plowshares or the Ponder for the second Decay.

Matchups if interested were

2-1 Eldrazi
2-0 Storm
1-2 Storm
2-1 'Miracles' - Caleb Durward
2-0 Aggro Loam

[TSmiley]

I got a 5-0 today with the list we were talking about on Facebook- I was fortunate against alluren to cut him off black to win game three- but I really enjoyed the storm matchup with the sb setup. Still think I want decay #2 as well for extra removal, not sure what goes- I could see going back to the 19 land I played for a long time.


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[Hanni]

Scrubbed tonight at my LGS, going 2-2

Matchups were:

Colorless Eldrazi 2-0
Death & Taxes 2-0
Food Chain 0-2
Manaless Dredge 0-2

In the Food Chain matchup, he had the absolute nuts that even my Daze and FoW + blue card couldn't stop in game 1. Game 2, my draws lined up poorly with his, and a topdecked Toxic Deluge for 2 blew me out (I ended up mana screwed). I don't think this is a bad matchup for us, but those two games felt awful. We played a third game for fun that I won, but I'd really like to playtest this matchup more.

Against Manaless, he crushed me game 1 and I punted game 2 really badly. Oh well.

Overall, I was happy with my configuration. Clique was great everytime I played it, and I never once wished it was a Jace instead. Karakas didn't do much for me this time around, but I still think it's worth running in my build.

There is a FNM Legacy tomorrow night locally, so maybe I'll have better luck tomorrow. I still think this is one of the strongest decks in the format right now.

[Whitefaces]

I got a 5-0 today with the list we were talking about on Facebook- I was fortunate against alluren to cut him off black to win game three- but I really enjoyed the storm matchup with the sb setup. Still think I want decay #2 as well for extra removal, not sure what goes- I could see going back to the 19 land I played for a long time.


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Nice job! Yeah, I think the storm matchup is OK after board. I've seen a large uptick in Empty too, main and side, so I think Meddling Mage is slightly less reliable than usual. I think I'll go 3 Canonist, 2 Mage.

19 lands is interesting, a friend suggested yesterday to cut a land for the Ponder we've been wanting to play.

Scrubbed tonight at my LGS, going 2-2

Matchups were:

Colorless Eldrazi 2-0
Death & Taxes 2-0
Food Chain 0-2
Manaless Dredge 0-2

In the Food Chain matchup, he had the absolute nuts that even my Daze and FoW + blue card couldn't stop in game 1. Game 2, my draws lined up poorly with his, and a topdecked Toxic Deluge for 2 blew me out (I ended up mana screwed). I don't think this is a bad matchup for us, but those two games felt awful. We played a third game for fun that I won, but I'd really like to playtest this matchup more.

Against Manaless, he crushed me game 1 and I punted game 2 really badly. Oh well.

Overall, I was happy with my configuration. Clique was great everytime I played it, and I never once wished it was a Jace instead. Karakas didn't do much for me this time around, but I still think it's worth running in my build.

There is a FNM Legacy tomorrow night locally, so maybe I'll have better luck tomorrow. I still think this is one of the strongest decks in the format right now.

Food Chain can do that if you don't have good draws. I played it (FC) at our monthly last week and lost to Bant in the semis, but I was one card or mana off comboing a couple of times. Deluge is insane I imagine. I agree that it's usually a very good matchup.

Manaless can do that too, I don't think 2-2 is indicative of you or the deck doing anything wrong!

I'm happy with a 1/1 split of Jace and Clique at the moment I think. With 2 Cliques, and a potential uptick in Reanimator strategies I like Karakas too. Let us know how FNM goes!

[TSmiley]

I always just name infernal tutor with mage- I like shutting off the tutors more than the win con


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[tescrin]

I've honestly been considering to run a main beater of Mirran Crusader, stacked with 4 Nobles and 2-3 QPM now that Decay can eat me.

While Mirran crusader is normally a 4/2 TNN (certainly much worse against some decks, like D&T), Dat DoubleStrike Doe. The idea of Noble->Crusader T3 swing for 6 (or 8 if you drop a QPM) is brutal. I realize that's a little christmasland, but doing that with other guys who massively benefit from exalted (Tarmogoyf being another) seems like an OK way to shave some 3-drops for some different ones.

If one wanted to go batshit, an Elspeth next to him can crank out a T3, 6/6 double striking flyer :s


I don't know about you, but I'm looking at the opportunity to deal massive damage and really exploit the lack of flying/white. People running Decay, Push, K-Command, or similar, banking on TNN blocking, and then hit by flying Tarmos and Crusaders just sounds like a dream. Rather than try to remove everything like normal, just having a mid-range offensive push that people aren't ready for sounds like one of the best times you'll have in magic hah.

Since I'm still coming up with a list, I'll put a rough thought below:

-20/4-
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Deathite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendillion Clique

-2-
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant

-18/14-
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 ?
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will


Could use a little work, but I think that kind of clock, between Flying, Protection and Exalted, could be gross. Seems like it needs something for D&T just cause mom + flyer is quite a roadblock.

[Whitefaces]

Honestly I don't see any appeal in Crusader when we have access to TNN, which is even easier to cast. Grixis Delver is picking up too, so there are plenty of Lightning Bolts flying around, as well as lots of the lists are running Forked Bolts and Sudden Demise to deal with Elves.

Quasali also doesn't match up very well vs the rest of the metagame atm, the top decks are Storm, Grixis Delver and Elves, giving it very few targets.

[Hanni]

Another benefit to TNN is that it is blue. The blue spell count for Force of Will is a big concern for lists heavier in non-blue creatures.

Quasali Pridemage is definitely a strong creature, but I think you have to move the deck in a radically different direction to incorporate him. Something with GSZ most likely, at which point, you may be better off just playing Maverick.

Honestly, I haven't had any major concerns with how quickly I can kill my opponent's outside of combo matchups, and even then, I'd rather have hatebears than a faster clock.

Also, 2 Abrupt Decay has been sufficient for dealing with artifacts and enchantments for me so far.

[TSmiley]

Lightning bolt is making more of a comeback as well- I don't think crusader is where we want to be. When it was all bug- sure- but now it's not the best.


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[KobeBryan]

With lightning bolt comes blood moon.

[Whitefaces]

With lightning bolt comes blood moon.

Er, no it doesn't? Bolt is from Delver, Moon is from Chalice decks.

I've seen some Grixis control lists run a couple of moons in the board, but I don't see how this is relevant to anything.

[TSmiley]

With lightning bolt comes blood moon.

The uwr stoneblade deck I played against had Blood Moon, I had to take it with a thoughtseize- it may have just been a 1 of in the board.

[Ewlandon]

I have been playing the new gideon and really like it. It is very good vs delver decks (maybe not rug but who plays that?).

I played in the MKM series in Frankfurt yesterday and went 8-2 getting 15th place (only one 8-2 made top 8). I run 8 dorks and 21 lands including 2x scrubland. I lost to storm (after winning game 1 and nearly locking him out of the game game 2), and a pretty close game 3 loss to punishing jund.

[TSmiley]

We played online yesterday- was the 3cc Gideon sideboard? I like the 4cc Gideon much better with the meta moving to a lot more midrange- but I can see 3cc Gideon doing work against Delver.


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[limbo]

It is possible that with Top gone we might be entering a combo winter.
Early results:
Frankfurt champs
Lotus Tournament
In which case, Yippee! I love Bant verses combo, and also of note there are Bant decks in each of these top 8s.

Edit: I personally don't think combo will rise too high, as I expect Delver and stoneblade decks to adapt and balance the format, but apparently the combo decks are the week one winners.

[joylusa]

hey guys, i was wrecked last sunday playing bant. there were 7 rounds and 180 ppl. I had really bad luck, doing a lot of mulligans and losing won games due to top decks of my opponets in the last turn , but still love this deck.

I played :

4 nobles
3 deathrite
4 nemesis
4 stone
2 leovold
1 vendilion
2 decays
4 swords
4 daze
4 fow
4 BS
1 jace
1 batter
1 jitte
1 sofi
4 pollute
4 flooded
3 tropi
2 tundra
1 scrubland
2 Usea
4 wasteland

SIDE
2 cannonist
1 contaiment
2 fluster
2 surgi
1 gideon 4cc
2 meddling
2 zealous
1 plage
2 seize

[Ewlandon]

We played online yesterday- was the 3cc Gideon sideboard? I like the 4cc Gideon much better with the meta moving to a lot more midrange- but I can see 3cc Gideon doing work against Delver.


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Hi, yeah I remember playing the mirror yesterday, ended up 4-1 in that league. I actually changed the mana base and started out playing 3x gideon of trails main for testing purposes and it turned out to be very good. Basically never lost a game where I cast it and it resolved, however, 3 was way too many. I am playing 1 main now and I like it a lot. I dont have trouble casting it like i did the 4 mana gideon when I used to play that.