[Deck] Bant

[Seraphix]

...

I'm in G specifically because KotR shores up Reanimator/Sneakshow/Infect/Lands (mostly Karakas, but wasting Inkmoths is good.) I get that I could do the TNN+KotR route, and I might.. I'm just feeling around the build space in an evolving meta. Fact is, in my meta right now, usually about 15-20 twice a week, there's 2+ infect, 1+ reanimator, 0-2 sneakshow, 1+ lands; and a SneakFit who's dropping T3 Emmy's on people. There's also a couple of very experienced storm and elves pilots. My money is not on grinding.

I know I *probably* dropped a game or two in the fair MUs in the couple of locals so far that are due to [x] being in TNN's slot. But that banks on the opponent not having answers, one of which had -1 effects, the other (who may have had that as well) had Judgement/Snaps. TNN is a reasonable card, but we're in a meta filling itself with -x/-x hate, combo, and delver. I sold my Leo's because I think he's got a limited time on his head and he hit his ceiling. I could be totally off, but I find it hard to believe he's not saturated.

...

I've been on 3 TNN/2 Knight as 3-drops for a while. TNN is great, but Knight fulfills an important role as a threat that attacks from a totally different angle as you allude to. Its big, ramps you, gets Karakas, Wastelands the opponent to death, and doesn't get blown out by -1/1 effects. I certainly won't be dropping it anytime soon.

[anwei]

On the point of KoR vs Reanimator- I think that KoR is far too slow for the BR Reanimator matchup- and even if you can naturally draw the karakas for grisel- they will more than likely draw into an entomb for Tidespout or Sire. I would also argue that playing more mana dorks in a daze shell gives you a better matchup against combo than the traditional esper deathblade.

Definitely too slow for your main line of disruption, but it's excellent as a (functional) T3-4 hate bear that, with instant-speed access to Bog or Karakas, puts the game away.

I would say that Knight's general ability to do that against the major graveyard strategies, but also (more weakly) against storm and show and tell, while providing an impressive clock, could really potentially shore up the slow clock vs. combo. Few things make me happier with my creature lineup than fast combo matchups where I'm ready to cut all my SFMs and TNNs for a bunch of disruptive 2/2s and hope they can't find a way through in like 10 turns.

[TSmiley]

I set up twitch and did a test stream last night- going to finish the league tonight on stream.

https://m.twitch.tv/tsmiley7?desktop-redirect=true


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[Theonlyone]

Hello. I haven't played the deck since the release of decay and deathrite shaman. I just got my cards to build the version of the mkm frankfurt series. Is there somewhere an article or an updated primer of the 4c stoneblade leovold? Same question about videos, matches, mtgo leagues and so on...
What are the good/bad matchups of the deck? Sorry about rhe bunch of questions, I don't have the opportunity to test online and my legacy community counts very few people...

[TSmiley]

I wrote one a while back (after gp Columbus) but I think the hosting site is down- I got asked to do another one but I've been dragging my feet.

I did get to stream it over the last two night and ended up 5-1 on mtgo, going 1-1 vs grixis Delver and beating death and Taxes, ant, elves, and burn- the video is saved at the link I posted above.


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[Despiteful]

Hey Guys,

I wanted to talk about all the Swords of x and y.

Which Swords would you bring for which Meta?

Most people seem to only play fire and ice right now, or none at all.
Do you feel they are too slow right now?
And in which matchups are they bomb and the first to be tutored?

Unfortunatly the Swords are kind of my pet timmy cards so i try to somehow fit 2 in :)

[tescrin]

Right now? I'd probably do SoFaI and SoBaM if I ran two. Both get through TNN, BaM gets through all the other nasties except Stalker/Gurmag.

BaM dropping dudes on your lawn is pretty neat and means your opp falls way behind. It also is a guaranteed kill in 4 swings or so against most decks, though mildly risky against things like Loam (side it out.)

SoFaI is just grand. The immense clock it puts on people and CA is often back breaking. It gets through anything cute too, like Strix, TNN, Thopters, and even gives you a jace-block so he can't bounce you and stunt your tempo.

If you want to protect your dude SoLaS is also nice and usually that or SoFaF are the second sword if someone runs two. SoLaS protects you from every single legacy removal that targets I believe, unless it's on a 1/1 (which bolt can hit.) It has reasonable effect against Burn and D&T as well; and it flies through Grisel and Lage too, if the game is close enough for that to matter (sometimes it has been!) Note: I am not 100% as I don't have time to check, but I believe if DRS blocks the SoLaS trigger for the target, it will also block the life-gain. Same can happen if Mom blocks your SoFaI trigger IIRC.

SoFaF is there mostly for the BUG decks and provides a tempo boost; but I've not seen the appeal much. SoBaM gives a guaranteed thing and gets around TNN. Those wolves will add up IMO, but I haven't tried it, so maybe I'm dumb. Getting around TNN is currently the big thing you need to be doing


Imo; current meta I'd rank like this:
SoFaI (TNN, awesome triggers, reliable CA, potential, +2 CA per hit, Colorless Removal makes it still relevant to D&T)
SoBaM (GREAT evasion, ok trigger, reliable CA) and SoLaS (great evasion, great protection, relevant but unreliable triggers, unreliable CA)
SoFaF (ok protection and evasion, weak triggers potentially, unreliable CA)
SoWaP (ok protection, weak triggers potentially, never gives CA)

SoWaP not only has unpredictable effect, but misses protection against Decay, Push, TNN, Goyf, etc.. and it's triggers can be underwhelming in a drawn out game, which is where swords mostly come up. I own a copy and I've never convinced myself to main or even side it.


EDIT: On whether to use it; I think leaving without SoFaI is a mistake. the tempo it provides is huge. I plowed a Lage the other day and still killed the guy in three swings. Brutal. Getting through TNN is imperitive and making Noble Hierarch a relevant equiper can be the difference between a loss and a win. Pro-blue/red also prevents ~100% of flash dudes that matter from getting you or even blocking you.

[Richard Arschmann]

Honestly, I would consider running 0 swords maindeck: the extra slot could be a Ponder or a Thoughtseize. Fire and Ice is the best one but I feel like I would still rather have Jitte or Batterskull in the vast majority of situations. The other four are not playable in Legacy.

[TSmiley]

Hey Guys,

I wanted to talk about all the Swords of x and y.

Which Swords would you bring for which Meta?

Most people seem to only play fire and ice right now, or none at all.
Do you feel they are too slow right now?
And in which matchups are they bomb and the first to be tutored?

Unfortunatly the Swords are kind of my pet timmy cards so i try to somehow fit 2 in :)

I think the rankings right now go:
Fire and Ice
Feast and Famine
Light and Shadow
War and Peace
Body and Mind

[TSmiley]

Played mtgo last night and played against burn, bug Delver, sneak and show, allures, and mono red sneak attack going 5-0. The deck seems to be in a sweet spot in at least the online meta game- can't wait to play more in paper.


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[Corazu]

Played mtgo last night and played against burn, bug Delver, sneak and show, allures, and mono red sneak attack going 5-0. The deck seems to be in a sweet spot in at least the online meta game- can't wait to play more in paper.


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Congrats man you made the daily list :)

I need to get on top of moving some cards so I can at least build this online since it might be a bit before I can put it together in paper.

[TSmiley]

Congrats man you made the daily list :)

I need to get on top of moving some cards so I can at least build this online since it might be a bit before I can put it together in paper.

Thanks! I'm going to be streaming the legacy challenge today starting in 45 minutes- hopefully it continues to go well.

[TSmiley]

Thanks! I'm going to be streaming the legacy challenge today starting in 45 minutes- hopefully it continues to go well.

I finished 13th in the Legacy Challenge at 5-2 and then finished a league after- here is the link to the video.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/142932225

[limbo]

I finished 13th in the Legacy Challenge at 5-2 and then finished a league after- here is the link to the video.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/142932225

Thanks for posting these. It is nice to see the lines and thought processes of others.

Edit: also - Drinking Stout or Coke?

[TSmiley]

Diet Coke until the end where I have Night Shift Morph and then a 40 of Coors Light... :D

[TSmiley]

Finally got around to compiling the wins/losses for my experiences on mtgo- here is the run down- do what you want with the data! The later part of the list was the start of playing serious mtgo for me- and the win/loss ratio may be skewed because of unfamiliarity with the client.
Overall: 51-28 65%
Grixis Delver 9-4
Ant 5-4
Most Recent
Grixis Delver L 0-2
LED Dredge W 2-0
Bug Control L 1-2
Grixis Delver W 2-1
Grixis Delver W 2-1
Jeskai Punishing Thing L 1-2
Grixis Delver W 2-1
Maverick W 2-0
Grixis Delver W 2-0
Eldrazi W 2-1
Czech W 2-0
Grixis Delver L 1-2
Mono Red Sneak W 2-1
Alluren W 2-0
Sneak and Show W 2-1
Duke Bug W 2-1
Burn W 2-0
Grixis Delver L 0-2
Ant W 2-0
Elves W 2-1
Death and Taxes W 2-1
Grixis Delver W 2-1
Belcher W 2-0
Esper Stoneblade W 2-0
Ant L 0-2
Bug Delver W 2-0
Lands L 0-2
Jeskai Stoneblade W 2-1
Grixis Delver W 2-0
Grixis Delver W 2-1
Ant L 1-2
Shardless Bug W 2-1
Czech W 2-1
Grixis Delver W 2-1
BR Reanimator L 1-2
UB Thing W 2-0
Bug Delver W 2-1
Ant L 1-2
Fish W 2-1
Burn L 0-2
Ant W 2-1
Grixis Delver W 2-0
Twin Moon W 2-1
Elves L 1-2
Dark Bant L 1-2
Zombardment W 2-1
Burn L 1-2
Bug Delver W 2-0
Sneak and Show L 0-2
UW Stoneblade W 2-1
Dark Bant L 1-2
Twin Moon W 2-0
Twin Moon W 2-0
Bug Delver L 1-2
Maverick L 0-2
Mono Red Sneak W 2-0
TES L 0-2
TES L 0-2
Bug Delver L 0-2
Burn W 2-0
Czech L 0-2
GW Chalice Loam L 1-2
UR Delver W 2-1
Ant L 0-2
BR Reanimator W 2-1
4c Loam L 0-2
Aluren W 2-1
Jeskai Stoneblade W 2-1
Goblins W 2-0
Ant W 2-1
4c Delver W 2-1
Infect L 0-2
Sneak and Show W 2-0
Grixis Delver L 1-2
Ant W 2-1
Slivers L 0-2
Ant W 2-1
Esper Mentor W 2-0
Death and Taxes W 2-1
Start of Replays That Work

[anwei]

Tonight I played Natural Order and went 4-0. I don't think I particularly recommend it. Dropping white is probably easier on the manabase, and Knight gets killed a lot. But, the list was probably okay. I'd drop one Knight for a 3rd TNN and look to get 1-2 more fair cards in the board (Submerge? Path?).

21 Lands
4 Misty
4 Heath
3 Trop
2 Tundra
1 U Sea (note that half the fetches can't get this)
1 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Karakas

Threats/etc. (21)
3 DRS
2 Hierarch
1 Pridemage
1 Ooze
3 KotR
2 TNN
1 Leovold
1 Progenitus
1 JTMS
3 GSZ
3 NO

Spells (18)
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 StP
4 FoW
3 Daze
1 Spell Pierce

Board
2 Fluster
2 Thoughtseize
2 Meddling Mage
2 Cannonist
1 Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crop Rotation
1 Surgical
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Qasali Pridemage

[tescrin]

Tonight I played Natural Order and went 4-0

Pretty neat list! I agree that bringing kotr to 2 makes sense if you want him. I was going that route but I'm trying Esper a bit again. KotR, IMO, improves unfair MUs but makes fair MUs pretty mediocre.

I always wanted to try the NO plan, looks like it's nifty! Maybe a Worldspine would make it better?

[Richard Arschmann]

When you're in topdeck mode on an empty board, both NO and Progenitus seem like awful topdecks, and Bant is already Awful Topdecks: The Deck with all the dorks. DRS is the exception, I guess, so it seems like you should run four of him.

[anwei]

If you are in topdeck mode, it's rare that you don't have a fetch for Arbor up.

But, I guess Progenitus and the 2 Hierarchs aren't great? I'm not sure that's too damning.