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Thread: [Deck] Bant

  1. #41

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Shugyosha View Post
    I am a bit surprised Stoneforge Mystic isn't discussed in this thread. This Worldwake card fits perfectly into the deck as it is another body, comes with cardadvantage and tutors the most broken equipment in every situation.

    Something like this works very well in a Bant Aggro deck without NO/Prog:

    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow

    The virtually 5 Equipment pieces transform every creature, even Noble Hierarch, into good beaters.
    So does, like, exalted. I don't think that what this deck needs is more good beaters, it has those coming out the woodwork.
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  2. #42

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Why would u waste spots for it, just play 2 jittes ...
    instead u can put counter or firespout shizzle in it :P

    Much better..

  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    So does, like, exalted. I don't think that what this deck needs is more good beaters, it has those coming out the woodwork.
    The thing is, that exalted is only really good with multiple instances and while attacking. Decks running a bunch of creatures can still get you in race mode. Umezawa's Jitte is so insanely good against Goblins/Merfolk and many other Decks. Stoneforge Mystic lets you run more virtual copies of a really broken card, is card advantage and supports the aggro strategy, can you say this about any other card in the deck? Even his second ability matters with Jitte as the opponent could have played a Balance after Mystic came down early or could have a Spell Pierce in hand.
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  4. #44

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    I don't know but don't u guys have alot of problems against zoo and espacially gobblins??
    I really don't know what to do against gobblins...

    We thouht that Duelling Grounds ain't bad ^^
    But idk...

    I also play Jitte ofcourse but that's sometimes even to slow, sideboard also 3 BEB

  5. #45
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    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    I`m testing and playing this PRO Bant list but I`m felling that it can be improved and want to share it.

    1 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Plains
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Tropical Island
    2 Tundra
    1 Savannah
    1 Dryad Arbor
    //18 Lands

    3 Natural Order
    1 Progenitus
    //4 NO Combo

    2 Sylvan Library
    4 Brainstorm
    //6 Draw

    4 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    3 SpellSnare
    //10 Counter

    4 Sword to Plowshares
    2 Jitte of Umezawa
    //6 Removal

    4 Noble Hierarch
    3 Quasali Pridemage
    3 Rhox War Monk
    4 Tarmogoyf
    1 Rafiq of Many
    //16 Creatures

    My metagame has a few combos and is infested by aggros like zoo , goblins and merfolks, some CB and CT lists and EveGreens are present in top8s.

    I test with SpellSnares and Pierces and found that SpellSnares seems better cause Daze , NO or Progenitus can be dead cards in your hand.Also it counters Counterbalance , Goyf , Bob , Edicts , RunedHalos.

    Rafiq is in the place of RWM , it saved me some times and i liked to play it hard cast and hit for 8-10 , also they usually need to take care of him and leave alive your Goyf and RWM.It also makes your Progenitus hit for 20+ and win locked games.

    Sylvan Library is just amazing , it avoid you from flooding lands and make you found threads, you can also draw a extra card to NO with backup.For me it seems better than Ponder(which can't avoid you from drawing Progenitus) but ponder is blue , a sorcery to grow Goyf and replaces it self.

    Jitte is in the main deck cause Noble or Dryad or any other small threat becomes a Goyf , it is also unfair with Rafiq and take cares of Goblins and Merfolks ,the problem is just when you have it but just one or two threaths to attach it and they take StP or other kind of removal.

    So you guys who are testing it too, do you think the number of creatures or real threats are too low?
    Should I move Jitte to SB and bring Vendillion Clique which flys and takeout opponents removal or bombs?
    SpellSnare should stay or be replaced by 4th Daze , RWM and another blue card(so blue cards count don't stay too low , maybe a Trygon)?

    PS:About the goblins MU , I'm testing Kitchen Finks and it seems very good.
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  6. #46

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    I'm playing this list:

    1 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Plains
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Windswept Heath
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Tundra
    1 Savannah
    //18

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Sword to Plowshares
    1 echoing truth (maybe this one out and another trygon predator/daze..)
    //21

    2 jace, the mind sculptor (this one owns quite alot)
    2 elspeth
    //4

    4 Noble Hierarch
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Rhox War Monk
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 cliques
    1 trygon predator
    //17

    SB//
    3 ethersworn canonist
    3 spell pierce
    2 kitchen finks
    2 ghostly prison
    3 relic of progenitus
    2 xx (krosan grip, BEB I would go for my meta,...)

    Now, my meta is full of aggro (gobblins, zoo, merfs) & combo so against combo u got a very, very good matchup.
    I tested alot and without progenitus it's better. U could play it sideboard but i don't think u need it.
    Against gobblins u got some problems, but against merfolk and zoo it ain't bad.
    The other meta decks are also quit good matchups, only ******** can be a problem because they attack your land and that can be very painfull.
    Maybe I should go - echoing truth and trygon predator and go + clique and qasali pridemage but i don't know that yet.
    Let me know what u think and what can be better...

    @Shimi, ur list is good adn u are playing aggro so 3 daze is enough..
    but I would bring clique in because it owns so hard really.
    I don't know if u tested it but it's a win against merfolk because it fly's.
    Really just test it and u'll see how good it is..
    And sylvan library is good but against gobblins and stuff it ain't that good so i don't know.
    I've played that list to and my list is better for my meta because the combo and aggro, and why no elspeth, it let u win against some decks to.

  7. #47

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    I'll back 1xStoneforge Mystic and 1xUmezawa's Jitte, Exalted is good in the aggro-control mirrors where it forces thru' your Tarmogoyf and Rhox War Monks, but Stoneforge Mystice and Umezawa's Jitte have the same effect while punishing Zoo, Goblins, Merfok and even Dredge to an extent. Really, Stoneforge Mystic and Umezawa's Jitte may be more of a "Supreme Blue" card, where the deck is designed to defeat Zoo buck lacks the tools it needs to push thru' vs aggro-control with out Exalted. Even still, it's pretty damn nice to have and I actually prefer it to Natural Order quite a bit.
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  8. #48

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Has anyone considered Basilisk Collar? Rapes agro even on dryad arbor in late game.


    Also has anyone tested Terastodon over Progen.
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  9. #49
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    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by That nice guy View Post
    Also has anyone tested Terastodon over Progen.
    Reasons?

  10. #50

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    why would u go for basilisk ? Just go Jitte then xD
    Jitte destroys things so, ok it ain't bad but why u would play it?
    Jitte stays better.

  11. #51

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by That nice guy View Post
    Also has anyone tested Terastodon over Progen.
    That's some really interesting tech you got there. If not mainboard atleast as a sideboard option...

  12. #52
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    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    @BantFTW
    I'm going to switch Jittes for Cliques in maindeck and test it more times.Sylvan is just amazing against any kind of aggro-control, its lack or slow againts fast aggros so it is sideout, it has the same function of your jace , but costs less which is good when you have no ponders to find lands in early, of course its brainstorm cost 4 life and it is not blue.
    If i would play Elspeth I would play jittes so a equiped 4/4 flying token is broken.

    About basilisk , jitte seems LOT Better , since it gives you 4 life , can kill problematic creatures ( magus of moon , bob , lord and much more) and also win Goyf wars.
    Terastodon could be a very nice tech , I would like to know if it really works.
    Super Bizarros Team.
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  13. #53

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Radiant View Post
    Reasons?
    Cause sometimes agro can actually race you, and things like pile-driver can actually slip by the Pbeast. Having a horde and the option to destroy pesky permanents is sweet sometimes. It's fuckin Tech! And in one game I actually hardcasted it. I do wish it was blue though.

    As for collar I just thought it'd be less mana-intensive(fits the curve nicer) ,non-legendary, and most importantly it CANT be countered by spellsnare and you wont care about Daze as much. It was just a thought and I was wondering if anyone tested it.
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  14. #54

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    A friend did go top 4 with the same deck as I play:

    19 land

    4 noble
    4 qasali
    3 RWM
    4 goyf
    3 clique

    spells:
    3 daze
    3 spell snare
    4 FOW
    4 brainstorm
    2 ponder
    4 STP
    2 elspeth
    2 jace, new one

    sb//
    2 dueling grounds
    2 EE
    2 krosan grip
    2 relic of pro
    1 tormod's crypt
    4 ethersworn canonist
    2 trygon predator

    I only play main something els:
    - 1 clique and - 2 ponder
    + 1 daze and + 2 predator

    SB// I play:

    2 dueling grounds
    2 EE
    2 finks
    3 canonist
    3 relic of pro
    3 spell pierce

    It was a 65 man torunament in Mol, Belgium and it's a pritty nice list.
    NOPRO ain't that good, it's just an extra win...
    He lost from fearies (with firespout and tombstalker main) in the finals.
    Bad matchups for me that I tested are sometimes Rock (they destroy alot :P)
    zoo is pritty hard
    and gobblins and merfolk sometime (only if they go really, really hard^^)
    Againt gobblins, merfolk and zoo,, dueling grounds is a really good card.
    Mainboard gobblins and merfolk doesn't get rid of it and zoo just counter their ugly qasali's and u win.

  15. #55

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Given just how ridiculously overpowered NO seems in the deck, I would consider playing 4 Natural Order, along with a single Rafiq of the Many to go along side it. I see that some decks already are playing Rafiq (since it's an excellent fit in the deck) but still aren't playing the 4th NO. Most of the time, the 4cc for the NO gets you Progenitus, which is just an absurdly good deal. But it can grab Rafiq as a back up when needed too.

    The main advantage of that is that even if you have a Progenitus in hand, and can cast NO, you still have something very strong to get with it. But also...

    There's a number of situations where you would actually prefer to grab Rafiq with NO rather than Progenitus (when you're dangerously low on life but have a RMW in play that would really benefit from Rafiq and doublestrike), or when you can win the game that very same turn against combo or something, but only if you NO for Rafiq instead of Progenitus.

  16. #56

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Progenitus ain't needed^^, I also play rafiq in my deck sometimes and it owns :P.
    But Progenitus is ane xtra win and ain't needed.
    I win from the normal Bant decks with No into Progenitus...

  17. #57

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    No particular threat is actually NEEDED.

    By point is that NO => Progenitus is the best deal in the whole deck. 4cc for a 10/10 unblockable shroud creature is a hell of a deal. It seems like the deck would want to get that deal as consistently and frequently as humanly possible. So why not up to 4 NO. You can always grab Rafiq with an NO too, so it's not like NO is ever a completely dead draw.

  18. #58

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    okej,

    my meta it ain't good, it's almost only aggro and combo (ant)
    so NOPRO is to slow for aggro and no needing for ant xD
    I would go in Madrid a list with firespout main I think and also NOPRO ofcourse^^

  19. #59

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    I'm actually onlly talking about Pro Bant lists, not your list in particular (since you don't play Pro anyways).

    If you have a Noble Hierarach, you can NO on turn 3. You will have yet a near impossible to kill creature to use for blocking, one that can sometimes win the game with a single swing, or at most two swings.

    Even without Hierach, you NO on turn 4.

    Considering that you also play StP and a lot of fantastic blockers (RMW, Tarmogoyf) that you can drop down on turn 2 with ease, I don't see how turn 3 or 4 for NO can possibly be too slow for aggro.

    I can see it being too slow for combo and burn, but I think against aggro, it's plenty fast enough.

    Some ProBant lists play 4cc Planeswalkers. The Planeswalkers are inferior to NO. They're way slower, not very aggressive and much easier to kill. I would honestly cut them for the 4th NO and a 1 of Rafiq.

  20. #60

    Re: [Deck] Bant Aggro and Pro Bant

    Indeed if u go into NORPO, don't play plainswalkers and maybe think of going firespout xD^^

    but, just test it, it's really to slow against gobblins, trust me..
    Against zoo and merfs it ain't but yeah..

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