I took 7th (though we chopped the top 8) at Mythic's Monthly event with the DeathBant list. Is it something I should share or is this the wrong place to talk about it? I really enjoyed the deck and I can say it is a different deck than Bant.
Eh, post it. Let 8 dorks, >4 Hexproof guys go with Bant. There are good reasons to stick with black-er deathblade.
Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac
I think any Noble+TNN deck is probably going to fall into this category instead of Deathblade.
Alright. Here's my list:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
4 Wasteland
3 Flusterstorm
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Krosan Grip
2 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Detention Sphere
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Match ups were Burn (2-0), Miracles (2-0), Jund (2-1), RUG (1-2), DnT (ID), UR Delver (2-0) and the top 8 was chopped. Every game the 3 games I lost where total blow outs. I was completely mana denied (Loam loop by Jund and endless removal by RUG). In addition, my RUG games consisted of me having all my 4 drops in hand.
Having played and worked on Bant in the past, this plays very differently from Zenith/Horizon Bant. This deck is actually much closer to Stoneblade/Deathblade. These are different decks so comparing them is very difficult.
I may fiddle around with the sideboard a little but the maindeck for me was essentially perfect. Garruk was a little meh for me. I think I would rather have something like EE.
I guess this is the place to post the mana dork + TNN + SFM + Daze deck.
Like everyone else, I'm inspecting the TNN bandwagon. It seems to me that one of the most powerful things you can be doing, if everyone is trying to go bigger in a TNN vs combo world is to Daze their TNN. While you're at it, getting your TNN first is a pretty big deal. Everyone here agrees with that (being the Bant thread), but what I'd like to convince you is that we have the ability to run more TNN than you might realize (or at least close cousins) and that we can find them better. I'm talking about Vendilion Clique. Clique has a few things going for her: disruption vs control and combo plus she beats for 3+ evasively (like TNN) to quicken our clock vs aggro and other midrange. Our deck is setup to do something saucy on turn 2 with consistency, and I don't think 8 things (SFM + TNN) is enough. VClique fills the need for extra disruption while still bringing the wood. What I feel like most people are missing is that the deck doesn't actually need basics or need to hit 4 mana with any consistency (jace isn't actually the plan, the plan is TNN). This means we can play Ponders and just find our SFMs, STPs, and TNNs more often.
I've been playing this list on Cockatrice and in personal testing to pretty good results:
4 Noble Hiearch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 True Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares
10 blue fetch
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
I don't believe you need basics with 8 mana dorks and 8 cantrips. I haven't had any problem with Thresh, Merfolk, or Deathblade playing no basics.
I also don't believe Jace is a good fit in this deck. Tapping out on turn 3 for a Jace isn't applying a lot of pressure. You don't have real countermagic in this deck. You're trying to press advantage by accelerating better threats. Jace might still be a card that ends up making the deck, but I have consistently found myself unable to make 4 mana when I test jace vs the other TNN decks. 3 is reasonable, but there is a huge jump to 4 mana. Jace just gets pitched to Force as something that I'm never going to reasonably cast.
My sideboard has recently settled here:
3 Zealous Persecution (this is the justification for the 3 Sea, they are extremely important in the pseudo-mirror and your opponent will be playing wasteland).
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Rest in Peace
1 Notion Thief
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Karakas
The sideboard is focused shoring up our combo match (4 copies of VClique + force + the best hatebears postboard) and the pseudo-mirror (other SFM/TNN decks). The only cards I'm really in love with out of the sideboard are Zealous Persecution, Qasali Pridemage, Rest in Peace, Vendilion Clique, Ethersworn Canonist, and Thalia. The others could swing in various ways. (Karakas + Sower might be better off as more general hate like a piece of countermagic or a thoughtseize for instance).
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
If tapping out for Jace on 3 isn't a good play...then don't make it? I think Jace is still really strong as a 2-3 of to keep the gas coming/slow the opponent down.
I agree with Emidln, the problem with Jace is that he doesn't address an actual need in this deck other than being an admittably powerful card, where Vendillion Clique addresses the combo match up and makes the deck more aggressive overall. In a lot of ways I've come to think of Bant as the new age version of the Natural Order RUG decks but instead of Tarmogoyf and Natural Order you're stopping your curve short with Stoneforge Mystic and True Name Nemsis while everything else stays in place for the most part.
I really dislike Swords to Plowshares in this deck, and even tho' it doesn't synergize with Jitte I've been thinking about whether or not we should play with Bird's of Paradise over Noble Hierarch in order to have easier access to black mana so we can use a better MD card like Abrupt Decay and have the black mana to burn out the opponent with Deathrite Shaman. You need that mana desperately for Zealous Persecution, and having to play a bunch of Underground Seas instead of Wasteland is just incredibly "bleh" because your disruptiveness just gets worse and worse vs combo.
The other option is Elves of Deep Shadow if you think the 1 power for Jitte is a thing, but personally I don't because you can just SB in the R/U Sword. Plus flying could be a pretty huge advantage vs any deck packing Goyf.
I think that i will also put the two vendilion cliques into the main board instead of the geist of saint thraft but i will put the geists into the sideboard to have a creature that does not dies at -1-1 effects. With the jaces i do not agree because jace is such a strong card and he is good to protect with the true name nemesis.
Also a nice idea is abrupt decay. Today i wrote a list with three decays in it, because i have often the situation of missing a removal.
I am not sure if it is the right option to change Geist of saint traft with Vendilion clique. This deck has so many thoughness=1 creatures and i think it isnt the right step to increase this number of creatures. Cards like ZP will become a mainboard card and this card will cleaan your whole board and you have lost maybe 3,4 or 5 creatures just because of 1 card. This would hurt badly. Look at the match Sam black vs. Todd andersson. Todd played 1x toxic deluge i think it ws for 1 life and cleaned the whole board....gg
In my opinion i would stay on cards like Geist of Saint Traft because he has hexproof amd thoughness 2 and this is such important during the time of ZP becomes more and more popular.
For sure Vendilion clique is a good card especially against combo. But think about and dont make this deck extremely vulnerable to -1/-1 effects.
Then you should play a different deck because nothing you wrote here makes any sense. No STP, Birds or Elves of Deep Shadow over Noble? How many more Wastelands are you supposed to run besides the 4 most decks pack? Switching to DRS and Geist is to avoid -1 effects, but you want Clique?
I am thinking about Spectral Flight and a third or fourth Geist, because this Card makes the Geist extremly strong! Also it gives the True name nemesis flying to block a Delver or Tombstalker, it makes also a Bolt proof Deathrite Shaman Delver Blocker. If it is at the Geist or at the Nemesis its hard to destroy it by destroying the cteature. And if we need no flying engine, we have a force pitch card.
Can someone make a statistic about favorable and unfavorable deck types with this new TNN/Geist/DRS bantblade?
i would be really interested in that and i have no idea what it is strong and what is it weak against
Oh I see, there's one and only one possible version of BANT that everyone must play because you say so - fuck off.
Seriously, I'd be surprised if Golgari Charm became a MD card in this format when there are more than enough decks that still use Tarmogoyfs and Tombstalkers to kill their opponents and post-board I think it's just a question of not over committing or keeping up mana for Spell Snare - and Vendillion Clique usually takes care of itself when it comes to removal anyway.
Yes, I want to play a 4, not 3, color deck in order to have SB answers to opposing True Name Nemesis and therefore Noble Hierarch possibly isn't the best mana dork for that overall. I think Swords to Plowshares right now is the least viable removal spell in the format compared to Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay, True Name Nemesis made its stock drop thru' the floor and I'd prefer not to play with such a linear card.
Look also: "Unstable Mutation" or "Riding the Dilu Horse". Both can make Geist/ TNN Huge clocks.
Both these cards have been used with some success in the past. Note that Riding the dilu Horse effect do not end in the end of the turn - the counters stay on the creature.
Peace.
Then Team America seems like the deck to play instead of some awful deck with Stoneforge, Decay, TNN, and Elves of Deep Shadow.
I've thought about revisiting that deck (Blouses, I think it was called) now that TNN is available as a replacement for Troll Ascetic. I think something such as:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 True Name Nemesis
x amount of counterspells/draw effects
y amount of pump spells (Spectral Flight, Unstable Mutation, etc. Maybe even Berserk?)
Lands
I'm wondering how good of a deck that could still be.
Blouses is definitely more explosive than SFM decks, but it doesn't really have the option of extending or grinding games.
I'm testing Sam Black's version too, and I think that is good configuration. The worst cards are golgari charm/zealous persecution because we can lose the game if we haven't response. For this reason I think that we don't put black in the list, only we need play around the charm to win.
I'm playing with 4 wasteland and 8 fetchlands, because knight of reliquary is the best with a lot of wastelands :D and 8 fetch I think that is good, 9 is too much. I have quit the second ponder for the second jace, the mind sculptor because I think that we have fast mana to play that and jace is so good in table (I have listened that people don't play jace in the main and plays rafiq. Who is better?)
I'm playing sideboard to have reponse to golgari charm and his friends..
1 sword of fire and ice
2 rest in peace
2 vendilion clique
2 meddling mage
1 humility
1 ethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg
1 envelop
3 spell pierce
1 flusterstorm
It's good or you do changes?
Geist of saint traft is good? I don't know because knight and nemesis I think that are better..
In Hong Kong is Llawan Cephalid Empress a very good Card in Sodeboards against True Name Nemesis Decks. Is it worth to think about this card playing in the own sideboard or playing against it?
It's interesting, but I think the cost might be a little too high. I'm sticking with the Zealous plan for the moment.
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