From Aggro to Control for cheap

[(nameless one)]

Hello guys,

I've been always a tribal aggro player ever since I got into the Legacy scene, which was around when Lorwyn just entered Standard.

First, I had an X-land Elf Stompy deck, which was really linear strategy. Then I started building a Goblin deck to try to spice things up.

I then started to play Merfolk to practice my timing skills. Through this process, I started to learn how to play permission properly. This started gravitating me to play control.

I now want to try to play a control deck that will own aggro deck (as my meta is pure aggro, but I don't want to play Storm based decks as a single miscalculation will result to a loss). I currently own Quinn and Enchantress staples (sans Moat).

Should I build an Enchantress or a Quinn deck?

Maybe Pox? My friend has a casual mono-black control deck and She wants to play legacy without actually building a deck. I more than half of the cards needed for Pox. Should I build Pox instead?

Also, I wanna make a cheap deck. So no Moats, Tarmogoyfs, Dual Lands or Fetchlands for me :(

[FoulQ]

Here is a budgety version of enchantress that might get some ideas rolling:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22354

[hjalte]

If you are looking to play control, I would go with Quinn. Enchantress is (to my knowledge) much more a combo deck, than a control deck. It's called solitaire for a reason: You actually don't want too much interaction with your opponent. You set up a "lock" (Solitary confinement + sterling grove), draw ridiculous amounts of cards to win with Hoofprints of the Stag, or whatever you choose.

Quinn, on the other hand, plays more like a true control deck. You try to establish control over the board, by removing your opponents threads and relevant permanents. When that is achieved, you win the game. With Quinn you also have the possibility to win with a combo, thus winning fast, which is actually relevant a lot of times.
It is not a prerequisite to own a Moat to play Quinn, but a combo win is, to my experience, quite necessary, be it Goblin Charbelcher + Endless Horizons (for the cheap combo) or Painter's Servant + Grindstone. The last one is obviously most expensive, but the fact that Painter's Servant works under Humility makes it a compelling choice.

I know you probably don't have the cards, but MUC is quite a nice deck, but probably not so in a heavy aggro meta, it's better in an aggro-control meta.

[badjuju]

Enchantress is a control deck. The lock is the inevitability. Between grass, halo, moat/humility, confinement, and freaking 4/4 angel tokens, your aggro matchup is stellar. The deck isn't too expensive to build either. It'll take a little bit to get a hang of playing the deck, especially mulligan decisions. Since the deck relies very much on having an enchantress effect in play, you'll have to evaluate whether or not you can keep a hand without one (ie a MWC hand with multiple halos/rings).

[Mark Sun]

Uh, (nameless one), don't you already have a Quinn Deck built?

[(nameless one)]

Uh, (nameless one), don't you already have a Quinn Deck built?

I wish I had the whole list.

I have the staples necessary to play it but I dont have the full list (no Moat and Grindstones). I could run Stuffy Doll + Guilty Conscience combo in place of Grindstones but apparently its suboptimal.

And for Enchantress, I am only missing Fetchlands, Duals and Enchantress herself. (Although apparently you can play the deck with Duals no problem)

I dont know if I have all the cards necessary for MUC. I do have Force of Wills, Counterspells, Standstills, Brainstorms.

Maybe play MUC with Proteus Staff and Progenitus for the win?

[Mark Sun]

I wish I had the whole list.

I have the staples necessary to play it but I dont have the full list (no Moat and Grindstones)

And for Enchantress, I am only missing Fetchlands, Duals and Enchantress herself. (Although apparently you can play the deck with Duals no problem)

Moat is a bomb in Quinn but as IBA had stated, probably better to have Humility than it in this current metagame (Trygon, Qasali, and friends). Going from whatever the market value for Moat is at the moment (it'll probably shoot up because of Enchantress taking 1st at the latest SCG Tourney) to $5 is pretty good. Besides that, I think Grindstones can be had for $16, and you only need 2 to meet Quinn's needs. Seems fine to me


Edit: I didn't see that you had MUC components, but I'm not sure if it's that competitive? I can't see it doing that great against faster tempo decks.

[(nameless one)]

Moat is a bomb in Quinn but as IBA had stated, probably better to have Humility than it in this current metagame (Trygon, Qasali, and friends). Going from whatever the market value for Moat is at the moment (it'll probably shoot up because of Enchantress taking 1st at the latest SCG Tourney) to $5 is pretty good. Besides that, I think Grindstones can be had for $16, and you only need 2 to meet Quinn's needs. Seems fine to me


Edit: I didn't see that you had MUC components, but I'm not sure if it's that competitive? I can't see it doing that great against faster tempo decks.

I have 2 Humility, I am running that extra Humility in place of Moat and so far its alright, I did back it up with Day of Judgment. Unfortunate, Grindstones run between $25-30 around my area (and for some reason, E-bay)

I've also been recently reading Enchantress' thread and apparently, Moat is just a pointless delay to the Confinement lock.

I actually would love to build both decks but I wanna play one until I start hating it. Having both decks at the same time would be like trying to balance timeslots between two girlfriends... and its not fun for the most part.

I do agree that MUC is really slow, unless I run a Counter-Top engine with it, which is apparently suboptimal on a MUC build in the 1st place.

Which one has the best matchup against an aggro meta with the splash of Staxx?

[Mark Sun]

$25 Grindstones? Holy shit. Where do you live?!

Enchantress obviously has a stronger history than Quinn does, so if you were to play and continue to refine a deck, that'd be your choice. I agree with having one main deck, but it's okay to have backups.

Anyhow, I'm in a similar boat as you, so that's why I'm making some mono-color decks too

[stuckpixel]

Have you looked at NoGoyf at all? Tundras are pretty much a requirement, but the rest of the deck is pretty dirt cheap - and it might be a good idea to pounce on the all-stars in the deck now (weatherer wayfarer, Mother of Runes, etc) in the off chance that the deck really takes off.

[badjuju]

You can play Enchantress w/o any duals. That's how I ran it and it was fine. Only rarely did I ever need a Savannah (trying to cast turn 2 halos). I also ran and SPOD version that Wolff came up with that had 3x Chrome Mox and no splash for Words of War.

While playing the deck I never felt Moat to be a terrible necessity. Others swear by it, but my experiences have shown that while it is convenient, it isn't absolutely necessary. Humility is a fine replacement.

And yes, NoGoyf is pretty solid I hear. Tundras is all.

I suggest picking whichever deck you'll enjoy playing more, so proxy up and try them out.

[(nameless one)]

$25 Grindstones? Holy shit. Where do you live?!

Enchantress obviously has a stronger history than Quinn does, so if you were to play and continue to refine a deck, that'd be your choice. I agree with having one main deck, but it's okay to have backups.

Anyhow, I'm in a similar boat as you, so that's why I'm making some mono-color decks too

I live in right outside of Toronto. Supply for older cards is pretty lame.

One of my main points is take my meta by surprise. I've done it with my 'casual' Elf deck. I have been moving out of that philosophy and I want to bring it back.

The only fetches I have are 2x Scalding Tarn and 2x Arid Mesa. Maybe I could trade those up for Windswept Heath.

NoGoyf is the U/W fish deck right? Not really the control I'm looking for but it might help me with my timing skills.

EDIT:

You can play Enchantress w/o any duals. That's how I ran it and it was fine. Only rarely did I ever need a Savannah (trying to cast turn 2 halos). I also ran and SPOD version that Wolff came up with that had 3x Chrome Mox and no splash for Words of War.

While playing the deck I never felt Moat to be a terrible necessity. Others swear by it, but my experiences have shown that while it is convenient, it isn't absolutely necessary. Humility is a fine replacement.

And yes, NoGoyf is pretty solid I hear. Tundras is all.

I suggest picking whichever deck you'll enjoy playing more, so proxy up and try them out.

Whats your manabase on your Enchantress list? I am actually planning to run Lotus Petals instead of Chrome Moxes as Chrome Mox's drawback can really hurt Enchantress.

And I dont think Humility will work with Enchantress.

[stuckpixel]

It's not really a fish deck. People call it one, but it doesn't play like one. It took 3rd place in the last StarCityGames Legacy Open.

There's a thread in the competitive forum on it - from the two creators of the deck. I've just finished building it myself, and thus far I really enjoy it. It's a very different approach to control.

[beastman]

Unless you want to have your friend labeled as "that douchebag playing pox" for the rest of all time, I would never ever let someone I remotely liked play pox.

As for control decks, if your only two choices are quinn and enchantress, I would go with quinn, as you can perfectly tailor that to completely rape aggro.