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Thread: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

  1. #61
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by caenel View Post
    Hey guys,

    I'm going to take Dream Halls to a tourney this saturday, but I'm still looking for a decent sideboard. I'm expecting a meta of a decent number of Goblins, some ANT, some Merfolk, a couple of Bant (NO & no NO) and then some random others (Zoo, Landstill, Rock).
    So far, my sideboard will look like this (fairly straightforward):

    3 Propaganda
    4 Spell Pierce
    2 Duress
    2 Meditate
    2 Hydroblast
    2 Pithing Needle

    I'm thinking to replace the Meditates with Massacre. I'm just a bit concerned running into a decent number of hatebears (Teeg, Cannonist) and I think Massacre might be a good answer here (all hatebears are white, so plains should be a given and I'm playing USea, so swamps should work out too).

    What do you guys think about it? What would be a good sideboard in a meta as given above?

    PS: I don't have any bounce in the side, since I'll be playing a Nucklavee list with a maindeck copy of Wipe Away and Echoing Truth.
    In an aggro metagame, the Ur version is the best.

    Code:
    // Lands
        2 [B] Volcanic Island
        3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
        4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
        2 [EX] City of Traitors
        4 [UNH] Island
        1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
        1 [ON] Flooded Strand
        2 [ON] Polluted Delta
        1 [OV] Mountain
    
    // Creatures
        2 [CFX] Progenitus
        1 [CFX] Magister Sphinx
        2 [M10] Bogardan Hellkite
    
    // Spells
        4 [SH] Dream Halls
        4 [FNM] Brainstorm
        3 [AP] Fire/Ice
        4 [AL] Force of Will
        2 [CFX] Conflux
        4 [JU] Burning Wish
        3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
        4 [TE] Lotus Petal
        4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
        3 [US] Show and Tell
    
    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [CFX] Conflux
    SB: 1 [US] Show and Tell
    SB: 2 [IA] Pyroclasm
    SB: 2 [B] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 1 [SHM] Firespout
    SB: 1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
    SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 1 [IA] Anarchy
    SB: 1 [US] Meltdown
    SB: 2 [OV] Pyroblast
    I love how Spell Pierce and Fire/Ice are complementary to fight against hate.

    Actually, as it's strong against aggro, I'm considering playing -4 Lotus petal and +3 Ponder +1 Fire/ice.

  2. #62

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    @Hopo: My bad, I should have noticed. Sometimes my mind thinks it had a genial thought, but in the end, these thoughts almost always end up coming back to bite me :-)
    Scrap the Massacre idea :-)

  3. #63

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    What do you guys think about it? What would be a good sideboard in a meta as given above?
    i will try 3-4 deathmark or slaughter pact.

  4. #64

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatestitcher View Post
    i will try 3-4 deathmark or slaughter pact.
    In a heavy aggro meta, I'd consider 3-4 Deathmark (for Bears of Hat), and possibly 2-3 Flashfreeze for reactive answers to Teeg and Blood Moon (as examples).

  5. #65

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    What do you think of cutting brainstorm / ponder from the MD, using lim-duls vault, impulse, mulldrifter, ... as replacement. This opens us up for chalice of the void as MD protection since we can make an easy 2 mana in the first turn.

    However I don't know if we should focus on this sort of protecting, but chalice is also a target for pridemage and other removal that could hurt dream halls.

  6. #66
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Xentra View Post
    What do you think of cutting brainstorm / ponder from the MD, using lim-duls vault, impulse, mulldrifter, ... as replacement. This opens us up for chalice of the void as MD protection since we can make an easy 2 mana in the first turn.

    However I don't know if we should focus on this sort of protecting, but chalice is also a target for pridemage and other removal that could hurt dream halls.
    Cutting Brainstorm is a horrible idea in the deck, especially given the manabase that most builds are using. With anywhere from 7-10 fetchlands, Brainstorm is maximized as a draw spell. Additionally, the classic Brainstorm in response to discard will protect critical combo pieces. Removing the one mana instant would be a travesty for the deck.

    Ponder, however, could possibly be ditched for Impulse. Their digging power is comparable, and a brief comparison will show the strengths vs. weaknesses of the two.

    Ponder:
    1. Look at top 3 cards.
    Impulse
    1. Look at top 4 cards.
    (Impulse has more immediate digging)

    Ponder
    2. Put them back on top OR on bottom
    Impulse
    2. Put them on bottom
    (If you see at least 1 card that you want in the top few cards, for instance, a Halls and a Show and Tell, then you can keep them there for later use. With Impulse, you can only take one)

    Ponder
    3. Draw a card
    Impulse
    3. Choose one and put it into your hand
    (Both spells give you one card)

    Ponder
    4. Sorcery
    Impulse
    4. Instant

    Both of these spells net you one card. The big difference is that Ponder lets you keep cards on top of your library if you want; a common occurrence for anyone that has played this deck a few times. Impulse digs an extra card, but that is almost to your disadvantage. If you stumble across two combo pieces in that digging, you will be forced to put one on the bottom of your library.

    The difference between Instant and Sorcery are negligent in this deck, with only 4 FoW as countermagic (in some builds, at least), and only one non-combo related spell to cast during the main phase (Thoughtseize). If you are running a build with more countermagic, especially countermagic that must be hardcasted, like Nix and Spell Pierce, then Impulse becomes much better. Otherwise, Ponder is the superior choice.

    -ktkenshinx-

  7. #67
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Some notes:
    - Dont cut Brainstorm or Ponder, both do exactly what the deck wants to do.
    - Burning Wish looks very strong, its comparable to Lim Duls Vault, with the advantage that it doesnt cost you life and doesnt create card disadvantage.
    Also it reduces the number of "dead" / redundant cards in the maindeck and makes Cruel Ulti unnecessary - what do you want more?
    - I think its a mistake to go below 4 Progentitus, especially with Wish in the picture giving you a total of 7 Show and Tell.
    - Fire / Ice in a combo deck? I dont like that at all. It doesnt kill any real beaters and well Pridemage.. i dont think he is the biggest problem for the deck.

    My list for reference, its close to Maveric's with a few sublte differences stated above:

    "Burning Dreams"

    // Lands
    4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    6 [ZEN] Island (1)
    2 [B] Volcanic Island
    1 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [ZEN] Mountain (3)
    4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn

    // Creatures
    1 [M10] Bogardan Hellkite
    4 [CFX] Progenitus

    // Spells
    3 [TE] Lotus Petal
    4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    4 [SH] Dream Halls
    4 [CST] Brainstorm
    4 [JU] Burning Wish
    3 [US] Show and Tell
    3 [CFX] Conflux
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [M10] Ponder

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [US] Show and Tell
    SB: 1 [CFX] Conflux
    SB: 1 [SHM] Firespout
    SB: 1 [OD] Concentrate
    SB: 1 [US] Meltdown
    SB: 1 [10E] Time Stretch
    SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 3 [B] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 1 [IA] Anarchy
    SB: 1 [CHK] Eye of Nowhere
    SB: 1 [TO] Overmaster

    Dont nail me on all the board choices, some are just fillers till something better is found.
    Besides going for Show and Tell into Progenitus / Hellkite, the mainkill of Dream Halls and Conflux is, to put a Progenitus into play and get the Time Stretch out of the board.
    I had a Cruel and All Suns Dawn in the board, but for now there unnecessary imo.
    I am considering a third splash colour, either black for Seize and Deathmark or green mainly for Reverent Silence. Having the basic Mountain and overall tons of basics makes a real difference against decks packing Waste (obvious kinda).
    Besides Progenitus who is out of question, i am not sure if Hellkite is the best choice, i am also considering other creatures like Iona or Sphinx - any opinions on that matter?
    BBB

  8. #68
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    If you want to use Burning wish, I will add a Tendrils in your Sideboard. You can play 9 spells chaining the conflux's and play it for 20 damage as alternate win condition.

    And Pulverize is better that Meltdown.

  9. #69
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    I am happy to see that other people are experiencing Ur builds. I have a lot to say but no time for the moment.

  10. #70
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    I think its a mistake to go below 4 Progentitus, especially with Wish in the picture giving you a total of 7 Show and Tell.
    Actually, I play 2 Prog (2 turns) + 2 Hellkite (3 turns or sweep the opposing weenies + 4 turns) + 1 Sphinx (2 turns). They are 5 cards (outside from DH) that make my SnT superior to everything in the format.

    I love this setup. It kills infinite life combo, it's all SnTable. I felt that I didn't need more Conflux MD. It's the minimum to search for both Hellkites. I love tops that are awesome against anything that is not aggro. I love Firespout and Fire/Ice that are awesome against aggro. It feels really well balanced between the aggro and control MU. After SB blue decks are definitely not a problem (-4 F/I +4 REB).

    Actually, now I can't think of any advantage of playing B over R for the splash. R provides BW which is the best tutor. It offers good solutions against aggro that enables you to gain some time and therefore remove petals that are card disadvantage. And finally, against control it plays 4 REB in SB, so that blue decks are not anymore a problem (well, merfolk is still not easy).

    My updated list. Not very different from the previous one. The main MD difference is that I removed the petals. In SB, I adapted a bit, but I'm still unsure about a lot of things.

    Code:
    // Lands
        3 [B] Volcanic Island
        3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
        4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
        2 [EX] City of Traitors
        4 [UNH] Island
        1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
        1 [ON] Flooded Strand
        2 [ON] Polluted Delta
        1 [OV] Mountain
    
    // Creatures
        2 [CFX] Progenitus
        1 [CFX] Magister Sphinx
        2 [M10] Bogardan Hellkite
    
    // Spells
        4 [SH] Dream Halls
        4 [FNM] Brainstorm
        4 [AP] Fire/Ice
        4 [AL] Force of Will
        2 [CFX] Conflux
        4 [JU] Burning Wish
        3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
        4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
        3 [US] Show and Tell
        2 [M10] Ponder
    
    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [CFX] Conflux
    SB: 1 [US] Show and Tell
    SB: 2 [B] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 [SHM] Firespout
    SB: 1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
    SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 1 [IA] Anarchy
    SB: 1 [US] Meltdown
    SB: 2 [OV] Pyroblast
    Some thoughts in random orders:
    - don't forget that Hellkite has flash, so that we don't really need a solution to Glacial Chasm : just destroy Zuran Orb. Land Sphinx and wait your opponent for not paying anymore their Chasm upkeep. And Flash your hellkites in. You also have Fire/Ice to finish them.
    - I don't think Pulverize is better than meltdown. I don't play a lot of mountains and Meltdown can be played for 3R. Okay it can't be played under DH, but I can't see any artifact being a real problem for the combo.
    - I prefer Anarchy than bounces against annoying enchantments, because of Sterling Grove. Maybe I'm wrong because of Karmic Justice (and Glacial Chasm).
    - Tendrils in SB is a bad kill, useless most of the time (if not always).
    - Relic is SBed in almost only against Ichorid and it's not really convincing. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it.

  11. #71

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Hey fellow sourcers,

    I just finished 4th in the swiss in a small tourney in Aalst (Belgium) (only 14 ppl there, still GPT for Madrid with 3 byes on the line) with Dream Halls. Granted, the thread is moving slightly the other way at the moment, but I played a slight modification of the original UB list. Here's the list I used:

    Maindeck:
    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 Flooded Strand
    5 Island
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Underground Sea

    4 Lotus Petal

    1 Duress
    3 Thoughtseize

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dream Halls
    1 Echoing Truth
    4 Force of Will
    3 Ponder
    4 Show and Tell
    1 Wipe Away

    4 Conflux
    1 Cruel Ultimatum
    4 Lim-Dûl's Vault
    1 Nucklavee
    4 Progenitus

    Sideboard:
    3 Deathmark
    2 Duress
    3 Hydroblast
    3 Propaganda
    4 Spell Pierce

    Here's how the tournament went:

    R1: Jan (playing Lands.dec)
    game 1: Jan wins the die roll and I keep a hand with most combo pieces but without Show and Tell. I do have a Brainstorm and a Ponder though, so I think I might find a needed card soon enough. Jan opens with Barbarian Ring into Gamble... I sigh of relief. I don't think this match can ever be won by Lands.dec, as the mostly play Chalice of the Void as combo protection (which has to be set at 3 and 5 against Halls to have any chance of winning, not counting my maindeck bounce). I use my card drawers to find me the needed cards and go for the combo kill with Nucklavee bounce on turn 4 (protected by Force).

    Sideboarding: nothing
    game 2: Jan elected to start, but I combo out with Nucklavee recursion on turn 2.
    1-0-0

    R2: Jelle (playing Countertop Bant)
    game 1: I win the roll, but mulligan down to 5 this game and keep a hand with 1 land and some draw. By the time I find my combo pieces and protection, Jelle already has a clock down in Tarmogoyf and has a hand full of Dazes and Forces with Counterbalance on the table. I try, but just cannot get through.

    Sideboarding: +2 Duress, +3 Deathmark, -2 Opt, -1 Lim-Dul's Vault, -2 Lotus Petal
    game 2: Jelle expected a lot of combo, and it shows. He sideboards about 11 cards against me. I don't think this matchup is even winnable anymore now. I have to face: Qasali Pridemage, Gaddok Teeg, Ethersworn Cannonist, Trigon Predator, Force of Will, Daze, Counterbalance, Krosan Grip. There are about 22 cards in his deck now that screw me... I try anyway and when I go for the combo kill with double protection, I miscalculate and end up with Dream Halls in play and only Conflux in hand (I should have played differently to have an extra card in hand with the same outcome). Jelle elected to drop a Trigon Predator with Show and Tell. Bummer. Afterwards, he showed me a Cannonist in hand, so if I hadn't made the misplay, he would've dropped Cannonist with Show and Tell and I still had no way of going off that turn.
    1-1-0

    R3: Jo, I think, sorry if I got the name wrong (Aggro Loam)
    game 1: I win the die roll and he gets a rather slow start with only a turn 3 Countryside Crusher and I can combo out the turn on my turn 4.

    Sideboarding: +3 Hydroblast, -1 Opt, -1 Lotus Petal, -1 Duress
    game 2: I mull down to 6 and I keep a hand with a lot of draw. He wins the mulligan war by going down to 5. Sadly, he plays a turn 2 Confidant to undo his mulligan. I meanwhile manage to use my draw spells to draw land and new draw spells. Gaddok Teeg comes down for my opponent and I cannot find anything usefull before going down.

    Sideboarding: +3 Deathmark, -3 Hydroblast
    game 3: I go first and keep. My opponent mulls to 6 again. I manage to get a Show and Tell for Dream Halls with Conflux and another card in hand on turn 4, and my opponent manages to make a misplay here. He drops a Terravore with Show and Tell, only to realize he cannot cast the Krosan Grip in his hands now (as Terravore was his only other green card and he was almost tapped out). Lucky for me. I think I might have gotten out of it though, as I had 5 mana on the board and if the Dream Halls would have gotten Gripped, I could've gotten another one with my Conflux and combo out next turn.
    2-1-0

    R4: Shawn (Tempo CounterTop)
    Shawn is a teammate, playing a very odd build of Bant CounterTop. It uses Wastelands and Stifle like Tempo *****. Luckily we tested the evening before and I got my but kicked about 4 games to 1... Shawn is a gentleman though and scoops me into the top 4 (Top 4 play-off since we were less than 16 participants). Plan is that I get to play another person and win, and then play against a teammate in the finals.
    We play a couple of games for fun though (no sideboarding) and I manage to win all of them (or maybe lose one or so, but we played like 4 games).
    3-1-0

    That's enough for a 4th place finish on tiebrakers. My round 1 opponent Jan just misses the cut by placing in 5th.
    Bad news is that I have to play Wim (another teammate who already booked for Madrid) in the semi's. When the pairings are anounced, I immediately scoop and send him to the finals to hopefully get his byes. The match would've been tricky, but far from unwinnable. He's playing his own brew of cards, something like a control countertop build with tutorable artifacts and recursion loops. It has only few countermagic in there, so I definately had a shot (but I'm probably not going to be able to attend Madrid anyhow).

    Sadly, Wim loses a close match with 2-1 in the finals against NO Bant.

    Conclusion:
    I'm rather pleased with the deck, but the problems it has fighting through hate are massive. I'm really thinking about splashing white for Chants or something.

    Please give any suggestions/tricks you guys have experienced, I might be playing this deck again next week and would love to make the Bant match more winnable.
    Last edited by caenel; 01-19-2010 at 04:02 AM.

  12. #72
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by caenel View Post
    Please give any suggestions/tricks you guys have experienced, I might be playing this deck again next week and would love to make the Bant match more winnable.
    Bant has no solution, neither MD nor SB, for Progenitus. Don't side out Petals or Vaults, don't bring in Death Marks and go straight for the big man asap. Side out the Bounce for 2 Duress. Turn 2 will always win, turn 3 usually, turn 4 sometimes and even turn 5 can win if all Bant plays are Hate bears. And whatever chance you have winning with a turn 5 Progenitus, it is still way higher than trying to Combo through the Bant wall of hate.

  13. #73

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by caenel View Post
    I go for the combo kill with double protection, I miscalculate and end up with Dream Halls in play and only Conflux in hand
    In this scenario, Pact would have been golden. Would you consider running 2-3 Pacts of negation in your next list?

    I see your maindeck bounce spells did not do well against those hatebears. Replacing 3 Ponders with M.tutors may work for you since you already have answers main deck. I run SDTs in my build but it's not the same for your case since you need blue cards to finish your combo. In Hellkite+CU kill I don't need pitch cards for lethal since most likely I'll draw it after 3 CUs..

    Your list also have 1-of Duress vs Thoughtseize. In your matchups, which card proved more useful and would you consider sb'ing 3xThoughtseize instead to counter life loss?

  14. #74

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    I go for the combo kill with double protection, I miscalculate and end up with Dream Halls in play and only Conflux in hand
    In this scenario, Pact would have been golden. Would you consider running 2-3 Pacts of negation in your next list?
    Well, Pact would have been OK, but in this situation, I just misplayed: He had double Daze, with me having 1 open mana. He Dazed 1 time and I Forced the Daze (since I was holding a Spell Pierce and wanted the mana for that one). I just had to pay for this Daze, then Force the second Daze. This would have left me with 1 more card in hand (the Spell Pierce).

    I see your maindeck bounce spells did not do well against those hatebears. Replacing 3 Ponders with M.tutors may work for you since you already have answers main deck. I run SDTs in my build but it's not the same for your case since you need blue cards to finish your combo. In Hellkite+CU kill I don't need pitch cards for lethal since most likely I'll draw it after 3 CUs..
    I did not really have much need that day for maindeck bounce spells, since I only ran into a hatebear in 2 games (one of which was Teeg, around who you can play). But I get your point. I'm pro and contra for Ponder (it switches). Sometimes I hate having to play Ponder (the sorcery speed sucks), but other times, I'm really thankful for Ponder as it shuffles unneeded cards away. I'm going to try out Mystical instead of Ponder, as I really see the benefit of getting that Conflux/Show and Tell/protection spell when needed.

    Your list also have 1-of Duress vs Thoughtseize. In your matchups, which card proved more useful and would you consider sb'ing 3xThoughtseize instead to counter life loss?
    To be honest, I would have played 4 Thoughtseize main, but only found 3 before the tournament. In retrospect, the 2 damage would matter in a Progenitus race. I think I would keep playing this configuration, as I often found myself taking Duress as extra protection piece with my second Conflux.

  15. #75
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Set-up:
    2 [CFX] Progenitus
    1 [CFX] Magister Sphinx
    2 [M10] Bogardan Hellkite
    4 [AP] Fire/Ice
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    2 [CFX] Conflux
    4 [JU] Burning Wish

    How to combo efficiently with this set-up?

    You can combo reliably with Conflux + any coloured card in hand, or Burning Wish + Red Card + any other coloured card.

    Burning Wish Set-up

    Let's start with the Burning Wish set-up which is somehow easier.

    1/ BW, discard red card, search for Conflux in SB.
    2/ Conflux#1, discard the other coloured card, search for FoW + Prog + Conflux#2 + Hellkite + Sphinx
    3/ Conflux#2, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), search for FoW + Prog + Prog + Conflux#3 + Hellkite.
    4/ Sphinx, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), opponent is at 10.
    5/ Conflux#3, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), search for F/I + Prog + Prog + F/I.
    6/ Hellkite, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), opponent is at 5.
    7/ Hellkite, discard F/I, opponent is at 0.

    How it can be interrupted and what are our solutions:
    1/ Archive Trap in resp to Conflux#2. Just laugh, play Sphinx, Hellkite, Prog and pass.
    2/ Mindbreak Trap in resp to Conflux#1. Well you're fucked up. But this does not happen if you play directly Conflux (you'll have FoW in hand). If you suspect Mindbreak Trap, you can spend 1 more turn to play Burning Wish and play DH the turn after.
    3/ Extirpate on Conflux in resp to Conflux#2. Just search for F/I + Prog + Prog + Hellkite. You can still play the combo and keep a playable Prog if anything goes wrong. If the opponent swarmed you with creatures, then don't hesitate to direct Hellkite triggers at them.
    4/ Krosan Grip in resp to BW, then search either for SnT or Conflux or a drawer (Compulsive Research). And try to recover.
    5/ Chant in resp to DH. Just wait one more turn and hope you can survive this delay.
    6/ Chant in resp to BW. Just wait one more turn and hope you can survive this delay.
    7/ Ad Nauseum in resp to BW. You're a jerk. Never play DH against ANT/TES if you don't have any protection. Show and tell is the way you want to win in this MU.
    8/ Any permanent preventing you from winning (Humility, Solitary Confinement, etc...). Just tutor F/I instead of FoWs, and BW instead of F/I. Play it off Prog to tutor Anarchy. Play anarchy off F/I. And combo. Anarchy is also your only chance against a resolved Iona.
    9/ SS on BW. You're fucked up.


    Conflux Set-up

    1/ Conflux#1, discard the other coloured card, search for FoW + Prog + Conflux#2 + Hellkite + Sphinx
    2/ Conflux#2, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), search for FoW + Prog + Prog + BW.
    3/ BW, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), search for Conflux in SB.
    4/ Conflux#3, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), search for F/I + Prog + Prog + Hellkite.
    5/ Sphinx, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), opponent is at 10.
    6/ Hellkite, discard Prog (and shuffle it in your library), opponent is at 5.
    7/ Hellkite, discard F/I, opponent is at 0.

    How it can be interrupted and what are our solutions:
    1/ Archive Trap in resp to Conflux#2. Just laugh, play Sphinx, Hellkite, Prog and pass.
    2/ Mindbreak Trap in resp to Conflux#2. FoW pitching Sphinx if you don't have any other solution. You'll win only 1 turn later. Don't bother to tutor 2 Hellkites, just land 1 Hellkite and 1 Prog and make your hand full of FoWs/Spell Pierces/REBs.
    3/ Extirpate on Conflux in resp to Conflux#2. Just search for F/I + Prog + Prog + Hellkite. You can still play the combo and keep a playable Prog if anything goes wrong. If the opponent swarmed you with creatures, then don't hesitate to direct Hellkite triggers at them.
    4/ Krosan Grip in resp to Conflux#1, then search for DH or SnT + Prog + Conflux#2 + BW + Sphinx.
    5/ Chant in resp to DH. Just wait one more turn and hope you can survive this delay.
    6/ Chant in resp to Conflux#1. Tutor FoW, REB (if you're playing against ANT/TES post SB) and stuff to pitch. Just wait one more turn and hope you can survive this delay. If your opponent has no W open and if you're quite sure he does not have AN in hand, you can safely play DH.
    7/ Ad Nauseum in resp to Conflux#1. You're a jerk. Never play DH against ANT/TES if you don't have any protection. Show and tell is the way you want to win in this MU.
    8/ Any permanent preventing you from winning (Humility, Solitary Confinement, etc...). Just tutor F/I instead of FoWs, and BW instead of F/I. Play it off Prog to tutor Anarchy. Play anarchy off F/I. And combo. Anarchy is also your only chance against a resolved Iona.
    9/ Spell Snare on BW. Either play Prog and pass or Force pitching Force and continue the combo. It's often better not to counter spell SS in order to protect a resolved Prog.

    Conclusion

    The BW route is definitely the risky one. Avoid it if you can. Generally against blue decks, try first to exhaust your opponent from his counterspells before playing DH.

    Against ANT/TES, SB out at least 2 DH, because they are too risky. Against Reanimator, SB out the SnT.

  16. #76

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Blue have no chant effect but try 4x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir in SB. XD

  17. #77
    I'm so meta, even this acronym
    Infinitium's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    12 red cards to pitch to Burning Wish looks like it's too few to reliably combo off 5 mana + Dream Halls alone, especially considering 4 of them are wish itself and the rest looks somewhat dubious to begin with (Conflux doesn't count for obv. reasons). Fire/Ice? Hellkite? I can sort of understand Hellkite instead of Ultimatum#4 for a number of reasons, but it seems lackluster in comparison with Progenitus since you don't run that kill to begin with. If you're that concerned with infinite life loops or Moat why not simply put a Sphinx in the sideboard instead of clogging the maindeck answerable threats?

  18. #78
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Furthermore isn't the Nucklavee kill infinite?

    Edit: I was thinking that the UB Talisman could replace Lotus Petal. It's permanent and gives you the colors you want anyway. It fits the tempo of UB Dream Halls, you can cast it, tap it for Ponder/Duress, and go off next turn.
    Last edited by Shawon; 01-19-2010 at 12:23 AM.

  19. #79
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    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitium View Post
    12 red cards to pitch to Burning Wish looks like it's too few to reliably combo off 5 mana + Dream Halls alone, especially considering 4 of them are wish itself and the rest looks somewhat dubious to begin with (Conflux doesn't count for obv. reasons). Fire/Ice? Hellkite? I can sort of understand Hellkite instead of Ultimatum#4 for a number of reasons, but it seems lackluster in comparison with Progenitus since you don't run that kill to begin with. If you're that concerned with infinite life loops or Moat why not simply put a Sphinx in the sideboard instead of clogging the maindeck answerable threats?
    I play 14 red cards. If don't get any of those I can still herdcast BW. I don't get where is the problem. About Hellkite over Ultimatum, the reason is simple: Hellkite is a very good card to SnT and in a Ur build I play virtually 7 SnT. The Ur build is not so good at finding DH, but in any case it can SnT something interesting (the less interesting is Sphinx).

    And with BW, the SB is crowded. I wished I had some more room and I definitely won't play extra kills.

    I've been defending the Cruel Ultimatum/Nucklavee/Bounce kill for a long time but these 3 cards are really not that good in the Ur build that does not need to bounce anything (F/I and BW do this job) and that needs to SnT things.

    Playing only 2 Progenitus is a choice I made for the moment but I can see why one would prefer to play more. The 3rd and 4th copies could replace the Ponder/F/I slots. Actually, I feel often safer SnTing Hellkite than SnTing Progenitus.

    I have chosen to include a kill in the turn because I don't empty my opponent's hand, but I often SB out Sphinx.

    Furthermore isn't the Nucklavee kill infinite?
    No. You'll deck yourself before make your opponent lose 40 life.

  20. #80

    Re: [Deck] Dream Halls Combo

    Furthermore isn't the Nucklavee kill infinite?
    No. You'll deck yourself before make your opponent lose 40 life.
    The Nucklavee kill is infinite, as long as you play at least 3 Progenitus. Once you run low on cards in the deck, you start discarding Progenitus for every spell you cast (bounce, Nucklavee and Cruel Ultimatum), which nets you 3 cards (Progenitus) back in your deck upon resolution of Cruel Ultimatum. Just draw all 3 Progenitus and repeat over and over.

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