The only real way to stop this madness (especially for Legacy cards) is to get rid of the RL. Everything else won't help.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: Man, I miss the times when I got my Undergrounds for 100€ a piece in great condition :(
I miss the times when I traded an Exalted Angel, the Standard hotness, for my two Underground Seas...and was getting the raw end of the deal.Originally Posted by Kathal
Jesus! I actually thought I`d might regret buying Underground Seas in December, I thought there was some possibility that they might be at their all time peak. I bit the bullet to finish my deck. Look at them now, Revised at $300. Same with Volcs. How high can they go?
Take vendor prices with a grain of salt. On the High End Group, where the largest volume of duals exchange hands, the prices are consistently ~10% (or more) below TCG prices for comparable conditioned cards.
I feel like this is market adjustment, but agree this will have a terrible effect on the format.
You are all aware of the outrageous prices on some pretty narrow Modern staples. When you can trade Goblin Guide, Auriok Champion, Spellskite, Glimmervoid and Eye of Ugin for duals (to name a few), you know something's fucked up.
Either the prices on these cards are too high, or the prices of duals are too low. There are trades you're not supposed to be able to make, yet can make these days.
This feels like 18 months ago, when you could trade a set of Tarns for a Library of Alexandria to a store. Although the Tarns appreciated even further (which is insane), the price of Library has adjusted since then.
Problem here is greed. All the stuff that has disappeared from the Internet overnight wasn't bought out by players looking to get into the format, and to turn their terribad Modern staples into Duals, Leds and Cradles. The same people that already have all the cards just bought some more.
What will happen within the next few months will be interesting indeed, like "Serenity" interesting.
What are you talking about? Underground Seas were ~$350 around the time of Khans. Up until recently, dual lands had been shedding value.
^ this. I had the feel bads aince I accidentally bought an extra Beta Taiga, but I guess Ill probably come out okay.
Unlimited Winter Orb just jumped from $15 to $90. Revised, 4th Edition, and 5th Edition hasn't moved at all. Thanks, 93/94!
Strange, the format originates from Europe where the Winter Orb still is $15 and yet you in America are the ones that have the staggering prices issue. Greed, greed & greed.
Meh, if you play 93/94 in Italy you're allowed to bring in italian legends and italian BB etc.
This because whe said F#%# you to those who wants only English legends. This allows more supply, keeping prices a bit lower.
It still baffles me how we can see crazy spikes from buyouts, speculation and player expectations in all the American outlets and price tracking tools, and meanwhile, on MCM, crickets are singing. I think MCM not selling across the Atlantic might be a huge deal for us here in Europe, because I`m pretty sure the buyouts would hit there too if they did.
Yes exactly ! Although SCG has accounts on MKM too- so they could do something here if they want..
They have and already bought some cards from me. However, they cannot ship them directly to the US (since this is forbidden) but send it to the MKM headquarters (Berlin) and they ship it to the US.
The account, which bought cards from me has 11856 buys, so they are rather active (and they might have more than 1 account too).
Edit says: here is the link to their account (or at least one of them): https://www.magickartenmarkt.de/Users/StarCityGames
Greetings,
Kathal
In terms of 93/94, in my experience, the Euro sellers (both on a large-scale retail and small, Facebook trader level) are just as bad as the North American ones.
While I sympathize that it feels bad to miss out and have to pay new prices on these cards, the reality is that there is there are very few (relative to modern Magic printings) available. I'm sure you've all see the numbers, but for posterity's sake:
(Full early MTG era print-run info: https://www.usc.edu/dept/Deckmasters...g/printrun.txt )
Doing some "guestimates", it's probably fair to say that 20-30% the original print runs of ABU are gone forever whether destroyed or damaged to the point of being worthless, are sitting in a forgotten shoebox, or, in the vast minority, they are encapsulated and in someone's permanent collection (effectively gone forever). So, realistically, between ABU, there are probably 15000 copies of any given rare that are still around and very few are available for sale. So, simple supply and demand; low supply and a recent surge in demand. Also, there is specific demand for NM cards from that era, which are even fewer and farther between. I would wager that the ratio between played/unplayed cards of that era is probably close to 10:1.
Most of the people who were not attached have already moved cards, with some going into the hands of resellers, but the majority are going into the hands of players/collectors. The only way to shake new stock out onto the market is to incentivize people to sell their personal playstock by driving up the price. For example, Unlimited Jayemdae Tomes: In early January, a few buyers decided they really wanted Unlimited Jayemdae Tomes. A few auctions on eBay ended at $75+ for single Jayemdae Tomes, up from $3-5 the month previous. But rather than being an outlier, a more people continued to win auctions at this price. I personally downgraded to Revised at this price point, as there was enough monetary incentive to sell cards from my personal, "unsellable" collection. Another example of this is Arabian Nights Serendib Efreet, up from $30 to a consistent selling price of $125+. Once again, the higher prices are driven by NM cards, but this upward traction effects all conditions.
In the specific case of Winter Orb, don't despair; the only place I see $100 Winter Orbs is on Dan Bocks eBay, and if you check sold listings (the only pricing metric that matters) they are selling in the $20-25 USD range a piece (based on multiple auctions between Feb 1 - 9). If you only refer to active listings, I can make any card $1,000,000.
My advice to those feeling suckered is to simply not worry about the Swedish rules set. Go ahead, play with Revised, who gives a shit? If you are worried about the monetary cost, play with what you can afford; few people are going to be sticklers, and if they are, fuck them, there not worth playing with. Sure, maybe the people in Gothenburg have reason to complain, but anyone outside of Sweden should really not care. That said, if you want to follow the Swedish rule set, by all means do, but recognize that this is YOUR choice, and the fact of the matter is that multiple people in your position are the exact people that are driving up prices. Retailers would happily sell $10 UNL Winter Orbs if they sold 1 a month, but now hundreds if not thousands of people around the world are looking to actively scoop these up. Complaining about prices on cards that are rare and considered pimp is silly whether it’s Magic 94, Summer, or Jap/Rus/Kor foils. They are expensive because there aren’t a lot of them out there and a lot of people want them, end of story.
Has anyone else seen that Channel Fireball has spiked the price on duals? N/NM Underground Sea is selling for 400.00. Starcity has on increased their price to 325.00. I wonder where these will settle.
mini1337, I really like your post!
One of the most enjoyable posts I have read here in a while. Thank you.In terms of 93/94, in my experience, the Euro sellers (both on a large-scale retail and small, Facebook trader level) are just as bad as the North American ones.
While I sympathize that it feels bad to miss out and have to pay new prices on these cards, the reality is that there is there are very few (relative to modern Magic printings) available. I'm sure you've all see the numbers, but for posterity's sake:
(Full early MTG era print-run info: https://www.usc.edu/dept/Deckmasters...g/printrun.txt )
Doing some "guestimates", it's probably fair to say that 20-30% the original print runs of ABU are gone forever whether destroyed or damaged to the point of being worthless, are sitting in a forgotten shoebox, or, in the vast minority, they are encapsulated and in someone's permanent collection (effectively gone forever). So, realistically, between ABU, there are probably 15000 copies of any given rare that are still around and very few are available for sale. So, simple supply and demand; low supply and a recent surge in demand. Also, there is specific demand for NM cards from that era, which are even fewer and farther between. I would wager that the ratio between played/unplayed cards of that era is probably close to 10:1.
Most of the people who were not attached have already moved cards, with some going into the hands of resellers, but the majority are going into the hands of players/collectors. The only way to shake new stock out onto the market is to incentivize people to sell their personal playstock by driving up the price. For example, Unlimited Jayemdae Tomes: In early January, a few buyers decided they really wanted Unlimited Jayemdae Tomes. A few auctions on eBay ended at $75+ for single Jayemdae Tomes, up from $3-5 the month previous. But rather than being an outlier, a more people continued to win auctions at this price. I personally downgraded to Revised at this price point, as there was enough monetary incentive to sell cards from my personal, "unsellable" collection. Another example of this is Arabian Nights Serendib Efreet, up from $30 to a consistent selling price of $125+. Once again, the higher prices are driven by NM cards, but this upward traction effects all conditions.
In the specific case of Winter Orb, don't despair; the only place I see $100 Winter Orbs is on Dan Bocks eBay, and if you check sold listings (the only pricing metric that matters) they are selling in the $20-25 USD range a piece (based on multiple auctions between Feb 1 - 9). If you only refer to active listings, I can make any card $1,000,000.
My advice to those feeling suckered is to simply not worry about the Swedish rules set. Go ahead, play with Revised, who gives a shit? If you are worried about the monetary cost, play with what you can afford; few people are going to be sticklers, and if they are, fuck them, there not worth playing with. Sure, maybe the people in Gothenburg have reason to complain, but anyone outside of Sweden should really not care. That said, if you want to follow the Swedish rule set, by all means do, but recognize that this is YOUR choice, and the fact of the matter is that multiple people in your position are the exact people that are driving up prices. Retailers would happily sell $10 UNL Winter Orbs if they sold 1 a month, but now hundreds if not thousands of people around the world are looking to actively scoop these up. Complaining about prices on cards that are rare and considered pimp is silly whether it’s Magic 94, Summer, or Jap/Rus/Kor foils. They are expensive because there aren’t a lot of them out there and a lot of people want them, end of story.
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
What an exciting time in legacy's history.....I say sit back and enjoy.
Yes good research.
mtgpimp
Big ups.
(keep this going)
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