[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

**GGoober** · 06-30-2011 02:10 PM

Abyss is never meant to be a sweeper. You can't compare Abyss to WoG just as you can't compare Humility to WoG. They serve different purposes with abyss/Humility requiring secondary cards to be fully effective (unlike Moat). It functions differently from WoG/Disk. It functions more closely to cards like Moat/Humility i.e. not a sweeper, but a staller. Moat is usually much stronger than Humility because against the right deck, it's an end to opponent's combat phase entirely. Humility/Abyss don't sweep, but tend to be paired up strongly with a secondary card (Humility with Factories/Elspeth/Decree of Justice, Abyss with Jace/pin-point removal).

Abyss is just not being played much at the moment. When it does pick up, I won't be surprised to see it overshoot $150 and reach Moat levels. The thing that's stopping Abyss from being popularly played is there hasn't been an upsurge of UBx based control decks outside of BUG control, which primarily win with Deed. If UWx and BUG control start shifting to UBx control lists, the Abyss is the most powerful tool you can use against aggro (when paired with pinpoint removal). Aggro decks cannot beat a sitting Abyss unless they are ages ahead (in this case Humility can't beat those decks either).

**Moosedog** · 06-30-2011 02:47 PM

Abyss isn't going anywhere as long as Qasali is in the format. When Qasali is involved WOD and humility are much better than abyss...and WOD doesn't even see a lot of play

**GGoober** · 06-30-2011 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Moosedog

Abyss isn't going anywhere as long as Qasali is in the format. When Qasali is involved WOD and humility are much better than abyss...and WOD doesn't even see a lot of play

What about Moat? Shackles? All these aren't ideal with Pridemage in the format. The nice thing is, people are actually dropping Pridemages to run other spells. The meta has shifted away from 4 Pridemage in every single deck when Pridemage was owning the format of Counterbalance/Dreadnoughts.

Abyss/Moat/Humility/Disk/Deed all fall under this category where it is vulnerable to Pridemage/Grips, but that doesn't mean you don't play them, because Pridemages/Grips are not as widely as they used to be. Like I said, no one is playing Abyss because other better decks exist (UWx, BUGdeed) at the moment. It'll take awhile for a UBx deck to perform well (I don't doubt this), and all it takes is one tournament with a series of performances, and this card will easily shoot up like Moat/Candles/etc.

**hyperchord24** · 06-30-2011 03:23 PM

Especially nowadays when it seems SCG bumps prices up at will (perhaps I should have posted this is the SCG hate thread).

I just bought my Abyss. At the very worst it'll retain it's value (and I'll use it).

**CorpT** · 06-30-2011 04:14 PM

Man do I look like a genius now for picking up English Abyss. Pretty decent shape too. I've seen how devastating a T2 Abyss can be, but it definitely takes a specific deck to run.

**tsabo_tavoc** · 06-30-2011 04:21 PM

It is fortunate for me to have picked up The Abyss a month ago before people posted in the thread. Look at the price now, I love this thread.

**Octopusman** · 06-30-2011 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by keys

The Abyss is still far behind behind Moat, Wrath of God/Damnation, Firespout, and Drop of Honey for sweepers... It might have some niche Commander value but other than that I don't see it getting more play than it currently does (i.e. none).

I mostly agree. Porphyry Nodes should get a nod as well.
The drop of honey/porphyry nodes are definitely different than The Abyss, however I feel that The Abyss is extremely overrated.

Nether Void is where it's at. Some extremely oppressive prison deck is just waiting to abuse this. Wish I could afford them!

**death** · 06-30-2011 10:18 PM

Taxing them (and yourself btw) to pay extra

for spells like Tarmogoyf or Terravore is not exactly as strong as "creatures you cast can't attack as they die on your upkeep while I fateseal you." Not overrated but underplayed.

**phonics** · 06-30-2011 10:51 PM

I think void has to be played like a "hard standstill" in order to be effective in anyway, it would def need to be built around I think.

**troopatroop** · 06-30-2011 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by phonics

I think void has to be played like a "hard standstill" in order to be effective in anyway, it would def need to be built around I think.

Nether Void decks won't ever be very good, imo. Too much entry cost, not enough reward. They were never very good.

**GGoober** · 06-30-2011 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc

It is fortunate for me to have picked up The Abyss a month ago before people posted in the thread. Look at the price now, I love this thread.

I picked them up a month too when I realized how stupid it is in Steel sTompy after realizing how stupid it was in Planeswalker Stax :P

**dontbiteitholmes** · 06-30-2011 11:53 PM

I think somewhere theres a UBStax deck that fits the Abyss nicely. I was working on a mono-U Stax deck for a while but the fact that they can still attack Jace under Propaganda completely ruins it, then WotC had to completely miss the chance the redo Propaganda to protect PWs with those EDH decks, damnit.

bruizar · 07-01-2011 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by troopatroop

Nether Void decks won't ever be very good, imo. Too much entry cost, not enough reward. They were never very good.

LOL, you probably didn´t play in a time where the opening plays were mox, ritual Juzam, then turn 2 or 3 drop Nethervoid, GG.

Get your facts straight please.

Also, The Abyss doesn´t work unless you play with ancient tombs/city of traitors. Playing these lands means you cannot play double-colored spells easily. (You can, but there is a big chance you will not hit your UB or UU.) So this will therefore not be good in planeswalker stax because planeswalker stax is an inconsistent and therefore bad deck. The Abyss is a good card but not in the proposed decks.

bruizar · 07-01-2011 05:20 AM

.

**thoren_** · 07-01-2011 07:23 AM

Why have certain Ravnica shock lands shot up in price lately? I've noticed Hallowed Fountain and Breeding Pool, specifically, are 17-20$ at many places. Overall, a lot of shocklands have sold out at many card retailers online.

Speculation because of Modern? or another EDH price spike? I have noticed certain staples like Reliquary Tower has jumped up in price (nonfoil 2-5$, foil 10$+) just over the course of the last 2-3 months.

bruizar · 07-01-2011 07:44 AM

I missed reliquary tower, not sure if that's due to EDH ( I can't imagine? ). Shockduals I think speculation on modern is the reason. Foil shock duals is due to EDH.

**Tha Gunslinga** · 07-01-2011 09:10 AM

Reliquary Tower is due to EDH. Shocklands is EDH and Modern.

**cdr** · 07-01-2011 09:55 AM

Quiet Speculation got quoted on Forbes.com: http://blogs.forbes.com/moneybuilder...ng-strategies/

**Koby** · 07-01-2011 10:50 AM

This has taken a turn for the strange.

**Mr.Dieth** · 07-01-2011 12:23 PM

And that right there is what ruins the game.

( couldn't care less though, got my playset fow, seas, fetches etc etc, for cheap years ago. So I should be happy. )

Hobby's aren't meant to make profit, that's why they are Hobby's.

But still ..

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