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Thread: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

  1. #6221

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonwisdom View Post
    prices of mtg sets of good non-reserve list cards are dropping to historic lows and new sets are being printed to oblivion.

    Has anyone noticed a semi-crash or softening in mtg prices.

    Old sets that are 20 years old and not protected by the reserve list are worth next to nothing considering how old they are.

    example: Apocalypse, judgement and visions (whose good cards are not on the reserve list) are worth like 100 bucks. Wizards has devalued those sets so much that they
    are not worth anything. Mecandian Masques has Rishidan port which I believe can be reprinted. Once it is, this will be a 100 dollar set as well.

    All the new sets that just rotated out of standard are basically worthless as they have been printed to oblivion, starting from return to ravnica and up.

    Some silver age sets like Innnistrad, Rise, zendikar and Lorwn/shadowmoor block are worth money, but once the greedy reprints come from Wotc,those sets will be worthless too. I am not sure why we collect cards if they will all be worthless in 20 years. It's like they see a 300 dollar set and do everything they can to make sure it turns into a 100 dollar set.

    Collectors beware that magic cards are starting to mimic the collapse of baseball cards.
    In theory because you value more what you get from having them (as a collector, player or both) than the money you pay for having it (money lost+opportunity cost). That value is entirely subjective, so for some people it's worth it and for others it isn't.

    From a pure financial point of view, investing in anything but some very specific cards (that are either on the Reserved List or somehow robust to reprints, like Alpha/7th foil Birds of Paradise) is a bad idea. However, if you are here, you probably love playing and/or collecting enough that you are willing to suffer some losses/opportunity costs.

  2. #6222

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
    In theory because you value more what you get from having them (as a collector, player or both) than the money you pay for having it (money lost+opportunity cost). That value is entirely subjective, so for some people it's worth it and for others it isn't.

    From a pure financial point of view, investing in anything but some very specific cards (that are either on the Reserved List or somehow robust to reprints, like Alpha/7th foil Birds of Paradise) is a bad idea. However, if you are here, you probably love playing and/or collecting enough that you are willing to suffer some losses/opportunity costs.

    The game need reprints to survive, but I don't see the point in collecting complete sets if all of them trend towards 100 bucks over time. If fact in most cases it costs much more than 100 dollars to create a complete set. Why even bother paying 90-105 dollars for a booster box, when you can buy the complete set for 100 dollars. Something is going to give. A complete set should always be worth more than a booster box or there is no real point to buying a booster box if it has the same value as the set.

    The Lorwyn block sells for about 250-300 a set. I am holding off buying since I think it will be 100 bucks soon after the mass reprints are coming. Ditto for every set in the Silver age of magic which is not reserve list protected. It is all headed down. The Silver age is still collectible but not for long. They will be devalued soon.

    Return to Ravnica was a powerful set yet it can still be had for 85 dollars a booster box. Wotc overprinted RtR and all the new sets after it. It could be a good thing in that it allows people to collect on the cheap after two years. In any case there is a disconnect between sealed product and complete sets. Cracking packs for the fun of it/draft is really the only reason to buy. I don't think collecting mtg cards is really worth it outside as you point out of ABU and reserve list cards.

    It could be what gives is that sealed product trends downwards which could be a good thing overall.

  3. #6223
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonwisdom View Post
    The game need reprints to survive, but I don't see the point in collecting complete sets if all of them trend towards 100 bucks over time.
    Are you collecting because you are a fan and would collect regardless of any future value?
    Or are you collecting because eventually you want to sell it for more than you originally paid?

    If the goal is to make a fortune selling complete MtG sets 20 years from now, you're doing it wrong!


    The 'collectability' of complete MtG sets has dropped, but I do not see why that would concern WotC. They already made their money selling boxes to retailers. And their business model ensures the current set has value for 2ish years. Why is it important for the complete set of Apocalypse to be worth anything?

  4. #6224

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Are you collecting because you are a fan and would collect regardless of any future value?
    Or are you collecting because eventually you want to sell it for more than you originally paid?

    If the goal is to make a fortune selling complete MtG sets 20 years from now, you're doing it wrong!


    The 'collectability' of complete MtG sets has dropped, but I do not see why that would concern WotC. They already made their money selling boxes to retailers. And their business model ensures the current set has value for 2ish years. Why is it important for the complete set of Apocalypse to be worth anything?

    I am a player like most of you and I don't own any sealed product. But I meet people at FNM all the time who buy 2-4 booster boxes just to complete their set. Just trying to point out to people that is much more cost effective to buy complete sets and to not over pay. I also marvel at how people spend so much money on MTG like 50 dollars a card only to see Wotc reprint it to death. I am unsure how long Wotc can get people to pay 50 dollars a card, knowing that it will drop in value. I don't like how Wotc is running their business lately and I am calling them out on it. Innistrad and down were properly printed and well managed sets. These new print runs are uncharted territory overall. I think that they miscalculated the growth of the player base.

    You would be surprised at how many people think that their cards will be worth a lot of money over the long term. I have seen this before in the baseball card market and recall having heated debates with friends. It feels the same way as before. Only time will tell if I am correct. Something is wrong in MTG today. Just wondering if anyone feels the same way or has taken notice. That is what blogs are for.

  5. #6225
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonwisdom View Post
    I am a player like most of you and I don't own any sealed product. But I meet people at FNM all the time who buy 2-4 booster boxes just to complete their set. Just trying to point out to people that is much more cost effective to buy complete sets and to not over pay. I also marvel at how people spend so much money on MTG like 50 dollars a card only to see Wotc reprint it to death. I am unsure how long Wotc can get people to pay 50 dollars a card, knowing that it will drop in value. I don't like how Wotc is running their business lately and I am calling them out on it. Innistrad and down were properly printed and well managed sets. These new print runs are uncharted territory overall. I think that they miscalculated the growth of the player base.

    You would be surprised at how many people think that their cards will be worth a lot of money over the long term. I have seen this before in the baseball card market and recall having heated debates with friends. It feels the same way as before. Only time will tell if I am correct. Something is wrong in MTG today. Just wondering if anyone feels the same way or has taken notice. That is what blogs are for.
    I completely agree with you. I really hope that I am wrong, but it feels like MTG finally jumped the shark. The reprints being used to sell new sets, overprinting, and reprint Master sets all leave a sour taste in my mouth. They are, in my opinion, a poorly designed money grabs. The formula worked, I would say it isn't working as well anymore. If I had to encapsulate the sentiment succinctly, it would be this.

    Magic used to be based on design exploration, the next set was always a big deal.
    Magic is now about the prior sets. What reprints will maximize booster sales while depleting the smallest amount of reprint value.

    Reserved list and mid nineties cards are cool, anything made in the last few years is valuable only for its tournament winning capability. New magic cards have no collectible value.

  6. #6226

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    I kinda like that they printed RTR (and other recent sets) into the ground as I feel there's no danger of a buyout. I can leisurely pick up shocklands whenever. The buyouts have gotten old.

    Unless they just haven't gotten around to targeting RTR stuff, as flip jace from origins got bought out if my memory is correct. It was a mythic but still.

    New sets are definitely boring design wise, everything revolves around mythic planeswalkers and creatures.

  7. #6227
    bruizar
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    The problem with any collectible trading card game is that it is a paradox. Collectibles thrive on scarcity, but a competitive card game requires card availability. If you want a thriving tournament scene, the collectible aspect gets hurt. If you want a thriving collector's scene, the tournament grinders get priced out.

    It can be managed, but overprinting reprints is not the answer. There are too many non-standard sets (From the Vault, Modern Masters, Conspiracy) which purposely cater to eternal players. THe reason why there are so many is simply because the price per booster is much higher and the demand is justified due to the number of staples in them.

    Don't think it's just Magic: the Gathering though. A Pokemon card was just sold at an auction for $54k.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/21/world...han-54000.html

  8. #6228
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    I just slowly sell whatever spikes. I loved Lily of the Veil but when she tripled in price, I happily collected my monies and moved on. I know that some of my cards have taken dips (Goyf, Confidant, SDT for some reason), but Tombs doubled, Cities doubled, Lilys tripled, Baubles went up 1000% or something ridiculous, LEDs went up a bit, Chalice went up 500%, Engineered Explosives went up 1000%+; so on these I cashed out.

    So I go through and make what I can where I can. I do worry a little about duals someday popping, but who knows. It's difficult to find the time between other hobbies to really do Legacy a lot of the time, so I'm beginning to wane on keeping the staples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  9. #6229
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    i am thinking about playing MTGO, I have paper legacy decks but i don't get to play that often. I really don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on data in a program with nothing tangible to show for it. How do you justify this? Should I just do it? If nothing cost more than $5 I wouldn't complain, but the prices of these 1s and 0s is too high. If you could build any deck for $50 I could tolerate it better. But none of it should cost money in my opinion.
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  10. #6230
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    I'd play MODO if it just had a subscription that gave you full access to every card
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  11. #6231
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    I'd play MODO if it just had a subscription that gave you full access to every card
    I'd be more interested in learning to deal with the interface if that was the case. As it is I don't want to get over that hurdle and have to re-invest in the game a second time.
    Tusk up.
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  12. #6232
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    I think a subscription is a great idea. Or some system where proving you own cards lets you use them in game.
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  13. #6233

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Here is something interesting. I just paid 25 bucks on ebay for these commander sets.

    You get a whopping 32 rares, 6 mythics and chase uncommons/commons in one pack.

    In contrast when you pay (avg 3 dollars a booster pack) 9 boosters you get
    8 rares and hopefully 1 mythic, and perhaps 3 good uncommons on avg. oh wait lets us not forget the 9 foil commons



    Something is going to give in the secondary market and MTG long term overall. They are reprinting everything to death. I also just bought an Origins set for 70 bucks shipping included. Remember when Jace went for 50.
    I think he can be had for 17 dollars now, which if fine. But 70 bucks for a whole set, which was really 60 plus 10 ship. That is cheaper than a whole booster box by 20 bucks and you get all the mythics and rares. I might have to end my booster box buying at Kaladesh or maybe even my collection. I am going to see how this all plays out.

    Also, Burgeoning got reprinted twice. Once in Conspiracy and now in Commander. I feel really sorry for anyone who bought that card before the TWO reprints. Ouch. Did they have to do it twice.
    Godo also got hit twice once in Commander and once in the from the vault series.


    I am glad that some people have noticed. On other blogs I get hammered from people who love everything about reprints and they don't care is their collections becoming worthless. Ever since Wtoc stopped giving print runs out, I got suspicious. I sent an email to their Customer service citing my concerns with their new business model.

    I don't mind standard being cheap for constructed play. I even think they should sanction paper pauper. But cards have to retain some value or else why bother paying so much money. Not every rare or mythic or even uncommon needs to be reprinted to death. Booster boxes should be like 30-40 dollars at most, based on the amount of reprints in "reprint sets"

    There needs to be a balance with reprints. There is no balance anymore. It is all cash grabs. I really hope that some Wotc exec sees this, but I think it will
    be too late. It is only a matter of time before masses of players realize that spending so much money on MTG boosters is crazy. When I draft at FNM it's like 16 bucks.
    If my cards retain 2 dollars worth of value over the long term, then I am much better off spending it elsewhere. This is the argument that I had with my friends back in the day. They paid 3 dollars a pack for upper deck or 2.00 for Topps packs. I argued why pay so much money 20 bucks for 10 packs for 2 dollars worth of cards. They argued their cards were worth more. I argued for 2 dollars. We were both wrong and they ended up being worth less than 2 dollars.

  14. #6234

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    I think many of the collectors are buying the first printed out foils now. Just look older sets like Mercadian Masques, Invasion, Nemesis etc etc. The first edition foil print runs were quite limited and they are nice to collect too.

  15. #6235

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    I have to disagree (to an extent) with the last 2 posts. I think wizards is trying to separate the casual crowd from the competitive crowd. Something like burgeoning isn't played in modern or legacy, and people want it for edh decks. They're gonna reprint it into the ground. Whereas stuff like liliana of the veil and horizon canopy are still in need of reprints. Prices of modern and legacy decks are still very high. Maybe they wanna compete with heartstone and the like and want to give casual formats a shot in the arm.

    But everything considered, that's not to say I'm not concerned at all at the speed of reprints though.

  16. #6236

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    On a side note but kind of related:

    Is this whole "Standard Showdown" thing they're trying to promote as an upgraded FNM a tacit acknowledgement on their part that even new players would rather play non-rotating formats than Standard? Their inability to attract people to new Standard formats has led FNMs to be mostly Modern-heavy almost to the exclusion of Standard. And now with the "Standard Showdown" they are almost insisting "hey, please, please play Standard. We'll even give you special lottery ticket packs as prizes!"

  17. #6237

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonwisdom View Post
    Here is something interesting. I just paid 25 bucks on ebay for these commander sets.

    You get a whopping 32 rares, 6 mythics and chase uncommons/commons in one pack.

    In contrast when you pay (avg 3 dollars a booster pack) 9 boosters you get
    8 rares and hopefully 1 mythic, and perhaps 3 good uncommons on avg. oh wait lets us not forget the 9 foil commons



    Something is going to give in the secondary market and MTG long term overall. They are reprinting everything to death. I also just bought an Origins set for 70 bucks shipping included. Remember when Jace went for 50.
    I think he can be had for 17 dollars now, which if fine. But 70 bucks for a whole set, which was really 60 plus 10 ship. That is cheaper than a whole booster box by 20 bucks and you get all the mythics and rares. I might have to end my booster box buying at Kaladesh or maybe even my collection. I am going to see how this all plays out.

    Also, Burgeoning got reprinted twice. Once in Conspiracy and now in Commander. I feel really sorry for anyone who bought that card before the TWO reprints. Ouch. Did they have to do it twice.
    Godo also got hit twice once in Commander and once in the from the vault series.


    I am glad that some people have noticed. On other blogs I get hammered from people who love everything about reprints and they don't care is their collections becoming worthless. Ever since Wtoc stopped giving print runs out, I got suspicious. I sent an email to their Customer service citing my concerns with their new business model.

    I don't mind standard being cheap for constructed play. I even think they should sanction paper pauper. But cards have to retain some value or else why bother paying so much money. Not every rare or mythic or even uncommon needs to be reprinted to death. Booster boxes should be like 30-40 dollars at most, based on the amount of reprints in "reprint sets"

    There needs to be a balance with reprints. There is no balance anymore. It is all cash grabs. I really hope that some Wotc exec sees this, but I think it will
    be too late. It is only a matter of time before masses of players realize that spending so much money on MTG boosters is crazy. When I draft at FNM it's like 16 bucks.
    If my cards retain 2 dollars worth of value over the long term, then I am much better off spending it elsewhere. This is the argument that I had with my friends back in the day. They paid 3 dollars a pack for upper deck or 2.00 for Topps packs. I argued why pay so much money 20 bucks for 10 packs for 2 dollars worth of cards. They argued their cards were worth more. I argued for 2 dollars. We were both wrong and they ended up being worth less than 2 dollars.
    As someone who owns many cards that are getting devalued by reprints, I say, bring it on. This kind of aggressive policy helps make sure people can actually play. People still buy packs, which still have an msrp, so there is a minimum price point. Above that, it's far better for the game if cards max out at $20 on the high end.

    Of course, there is always the reserve list of you simply must own cards that won't get reprinted.

  18. #6238
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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    On a side note but kind of related:

    Is this whole "Standard Showdown" thing they're trying to promote as an upgraded FNM a tacit acknowledgement on their part that even new players would rather play non-rotating formats than Standard? Their inability to attract people to new Standard formats has led FNMs to be mostly Modern-heavy almost to the exclusion of Standard. And now with the "Standard Showdown" they are almost insisting "hey, please, please play Standard. We'll even give you special lottery ticket packs as prizes!"
    "Standard: The Tappening" isn't very interesting. Mainly creatures, lands and planeswalkers. And alot of overcosted garbage. Can't blame them.

  19. #6239

    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    On a side note but kind of related:

    Is this whole "Standard Showdown" thing they're trying to promote as an upgraded FNM a tacit acknowledgement on their part that even new players would rather play non-rotating formats than Standard? Their inability to attract people to new Standard formats has...
    Wouldn't be surprised if this was the case, I got into magic a few years ago and went straight into modern. I liked all the (at the time) cheap tier 2 and 3 stuff that could be built and the flexibility in deck choices. Wouldn't mind playing standard right now but it looks like the time to buy in on delerium or u/w flash has passed.

  20. #6240
    Ooh... Shiny!

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    Re: [Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

    I'd be happy to lose my "investment" if it meant that more people played.

    Who cares, anyway.

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