[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[ryO!]

new funny thing
2 PLAYED wasteland going for 42$ (27min to go)
wait what?
a buy it now for one at 29$ what_the_f*ck?

loyal retainers i guess i was lucky to pick the 2 last from shuffleandcut (@ the old "normal" price) just after reading this topic on sunday night, i needed them for my survival anyway ... although i thought i could wait but seeing what's happened to those ...

ebay seems to be mad, prices aren't like this at all in france ...

[Nizmox]

I don't think you get it. For Wizards, there is no "collector".

I totally disagree, as someone else mentioned it's a CCG not a TCG. If Wizards doesn't care about collectors please explain the purpose of the Reserved List? Whether or not Wizards sells direct to collectors matters not, it's still ultimately demand for their products. The mere fact that magic spans such a long time span and that all the cards are still playable today is what makes it such a popular card game and the only one to have lasted the test of time.

Believe me when I say this, not all are fortunate to be in large metropolis with lots of game shops. In my small town of 40,000, we have 2 game shops that can barely keep enough product to support a single FNM. How is such a phenomenon good for the health of Magic?

Are we talking about standard or legacy here? I don't get the point of this statement. I don't see how lowering the price of legacy staples is going to get a legacy game going in your area if it can't even support standard?
I would have thought the internet and sites like SCG etc... has made access to single card purchases available to everyone? I live in Sydney, Australia with a pop of 4 mill and while I can buy singles here, I still find online stores have a much better range and are often cheaper. But it sounds like the barrier to entry is your low population not the card costs?

[mogote]

I think this would be severely detrimental to Wizards. Causing sudden drops in the prices of cards would scare collectors away from Magic all together. Collectors would invest their money elsewhere since MTG cards suddenly became a very volatile market. A decrease in demand for their cards is not what Wizards want.

Wizards reprinting cards played in the Eternal formats that are not on the reserved list is totally fair game in my opinion (reserved cards are still possible to be reprinted as judge promos anyway).
In this case the health of the game is far more important than the wallet of some random collector. It's not like it's rarity alone that pushes the prices of singles but also the demand by actual Eternal players without whom cards like Imperial Recruiter wouldn't be that expensive in the first place. Otherwise all those price increases we've witnessed in the last few years wouldn't have occured.
Also, a card not being reprinted is not a guarantee for a stable or even rising card price (see Cursed Scroll, Morphling or Masticore)

[MMogg]

right, and they've already ignored that how many times already.

as for reprints, did anyone own a set of psionic blasts before they reprinted them ? what are they worth now compared to before, yeah exactly. BOPs and pithing needles used to be hot. but how much are they worth now ?

also, if they reprinted duals, they'd be blackbordered. so chances are unlimited/revised duals would drop. also, if they were in a core set, they would also have to print them as foils. how much do you think a set of foil u.seas would run ? $400 ? that would drive the price of standard through the roof.

a lot of players commenting more based on biased personal opinion here than actual facts. I dont see as many actual hardcore collectors offering their thoughts. Im a player AND a collector. I buy the cards to play with, but I dont want them to go down in value either. some of you see to be forgetting its a collectible card game, not a trading card game. there is a lot more at stake here than what a handful of people think should happen with the game.

You probably don't see hardcore collectors chiming in because this is a player site more than a collector's site. What you're forgetting is that collectibility is based on the game, not on rarity alone. I remember Psionic Blast (lost money) and Underworld Dreams (lost money), but I also remember fetches and shocklands that made obsolete my painlands. I watched my Jackal Pups and Cursed Scrolls tank with creature power creep. This has never been a stagnant game and there are no sure bets. True, Revised duals would plummet to probably $5 per if they were reprinted in a set, including bb and foiled, but I don't think I'd care. I even have several FBB duals now, and I wouldn't care if they fell to a low value (although I doubt they would). I truly and deeply oppose manabases being barriers to a format. Could you imagine if Island cost $10 each? How about $20 each? That's how I feel when I see duals at crazy prices. That they are rare and special I can accept, but because they are so vital to Legacy and deckbuilding, they are vital to the format and ultimately "fun", and I don't like that barrier getting larger and larger.

[caiomarcos]

You probably don't see hardcore collectors chiming in because this is a player site more than a collector's site. What you're forgetting is that collectibility is based on the game, not on rarity alone. I remember Psionic Blast (lost money) and Underworld Dreams (lost money), but I also remember fetches and shocklands that made obsolete my painlands. I watched my Jackal Pups and Cursed Scrolls tank with creature power creep. This has never been a stagnant game and there are no sure bets. True, Revised duals would plummet to probably $5 per if they were reprinted in a set, including bb and foiled, but I don't think I'd care. I even have several FBB duals now, and I wouldn't care if they fell to a low value (although I doubt they would). I truly and deeply oppose manabases being barriers to a format. Could you imagine if Island cost $10 each? How about $20 each? That's how I feel when I see duals at crazy prices. That they are rare and special I can accept, but because they are so vital to Legacy and deckbuilding, they are vital to the format and ultimately "fun", and I don't like that barrier getting larger and larger.

A side question - are there any M:tG website or community for collectors? Just a sincere doubt...

[MMogg]

A side question - are there any M:tG website or community for collectors? Just a sincere doubt...

Others probably know better than I do, but I know there is a site specializing in rarities.

[oRen]

A side question - are there any M:tG website or community for collectors? Just a sincere doubt...

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/
most insane page.

@topic ... i sadly sold my it tabernacle for ~70 euros before 1 month ...
reminds me of the stock-market

regards

[edgewalker]

I totally disagree, as someone else mentioned it's a CCG not a TCG.

I really want to stay out of this discussion, but this caught my eye. Are you truly going to argue that M:TG is designed for collectors rather than players? It might be called a CCG, but the intention is for playing (Collectable Card GAME) The less people playing the less money Wizards makes. Wizards doesn't make money from people collecting and keeping cards. Wizards makes the bulk of it's funds from Packs and Boxes.

My point is that from an economical standpoint, it would be a good idea for wizards to reprint duals as mythics or some other rarity. They would see the largest jump in sales ever, and because of the higher card availability the more people will play the game. When more people are playing the game, more people are buying product.

[caiomarcos]

I really want to stay out of this discussion, but this caught my eye. Are you truly going to argue that M:TG is designed for collectors rather than players? It might be called a CCG, but the intention is for playing (Collectable Card GAME) The less people playing the less money Wizards makes. Wizards doesn't make money from people collecting and keeping cards. Wizards makes the bulk of it's funds from Packs and Boxes.

My point is that from an economical standpoint, it would be a good idea for wizards to reprint duals as mythics or some other rarity. They would see the largest jump in sales ever, and because of the higher card availability the more people will play the game. When more people are playing the game, more people are buying product.

It just came to me now that Wizars HAS already "reprinted" duals and Seal and such. Just look at the foil U. Seas going around MOL.

Maybe that will be their way of doing Legacy and other formats, while leaving the paper eternal formats/cards for rich people and collectors.

Wanna play Legacy? Go to MOL, there they can do all this "reprinting" by the click of a mouse button. Is FoW or duals getting expensive by the hour? Oh, here it is some more Master Ed. events for you.

By the way, I hate MOL, it is just completely made out of FAIL!

[ryO!]

Many of you don't have the slightest inche of common sense.

reprint Dual in M11 !
Dual land black bordered in T2/Extented again, price drop? serioulsy? please ...
foil dual land, price drop? seriously ? again please ...

reprint in FTV !
u think u ll get them (the box) 35$ in shop? seriously? please ...
foil dual land, price drop? seriously ? again please ...

reprint as mythic because they are so hard to find !
so mythic cards are harder to find? seriously? please ...

reprint them a common just like random basic land
yeah price drop !


damn legacy is so expensive especially the mana base
for god sake since when legacy was one time something else than an expensive format. And about dual lands, they ALWAYS were expensive but of course the price have increased since 1994 due to the inflation and the rarefaction which are both normal effect as the time goes by ...

As it has been said, you can use duals from ravinca or just similary cards for each you can't afford. And why on earth for someone that is starting right now, everything should be cheap? i mean you don't buy a full legacy deck one shot, you do it piece by piece ... Listening to some of you it sound like this : "hey i am new to legacy, i ve never collected cards before so please allow me to have 4fow 4Usea 4Irecruiter 4w/e 4w/e for 5$ ok? please?". Well no, you do like everyone did, you get your cards one at a time and in the meantime you use smth else which is more or less similar and cheaper than the actual card you want. Or what, does't it mean without all the big staples you can't have fun? does it mean that if you don't win a tour right now, there's no fun?

[edgewalker]

Many of you don't have the slightest inche of common sense.

reprint Dual in M11 !
Dual land black bordered in T2/Extented again, price drop? serioulsy? please ...
foil dual land, price drop? seriously ? again please ...

reprint in FTV !
u think u ll get them (the box) 35$ in shop? seriously? please ...
foil dual land, price drop? seriously ? again please ...

reprint as mythic because they are so hard to find !
so mythic cards are harder to find? seriously? please ...

reprint them a common just like random basic land
yeah price drop !


damn legacy is so expensive especially the mana base
for god sake since when legacy was one time something else than an expensive format. And about dual lands, they ALWAYS were expensive but of course the price have increased since 1994 due to the inflation and the rarefaction which are both normal effect as the time goes by ...

As it has been said, you can use duals from ravinca or just similary cards for each you can't afford. And why on earth for someone that is starting right now, everything should be cheap? i mean you don't buy a full legacy deck one shot, you do it piece by piece ... Listening to some of you it sound like this : "hey i am new to legacy, i ve never collected cards before so please allow me to have 4fow 4Usea 4Irecruiter 4w/e 4w/e for 5$ ok? please?". Well no, you do like everyone did, you get your cards one at a time and in the meantime you use smth else which is more or less similar and cheaper than the actual card you want. Or what, does't it mean without all the big staples you can't have fun? does it mean that if you don't win a tour right now, there's no fun?

I remember when I could get most duals (not tundra or Useas) for around $10 give or take a buck or two. That doesn't sound too expensive. It was also a time when a lot less people played. These cards only got expensive because the demand increased. The way I see it, why not meet the demand. This is a card game, not the stock market. Like many people keep saying, Wizards doesn't make money off collectors, they make it off the players. God forbid we stop acting like an all boys club and open up to a wider player base.

[Dan Turner]

Many of you don't have the slightest inche of common sense.

reprint Dual in M11 !
Dual land black bordered in T2/Extented again, price drop? serioulsy? please ...
foil dual land, price drop? seriously ? again please ...

reprint in FTV !
u think u ll get them (the box) 35$ in shop? seriously? please ...
foil dual land, price drop? seriously ? again please ...

reprint as mythic because they are so hard to find !
so mythic cards are harder to find? seriously? please ...

reprint them a common just like random basic land
yeah price drop !


damn legacy is so expensive especially the mana base
for god sake since when legacy was one time something else than an expensive format. And about dual lands, they ALWAYS were expensive but of course the price have increased since 1994 due to the inflation and the rarefaction which are both normal effect as the time goes by ...

As it has been said, you can use duals from ravinca or just similary cards for each you can't afford. And why on earth for someone that is starting right now, everything should be cheap? i mean you don't buy a full legacy deck one shot, you do it piece by piece ... Listening to some of you it sound like this : "hey i am new to legacy, i ve never collected cards before so please allow me to have 4fow 4Usea 4Irecruiter 4w/e 4w/e for 5$ ok? please?". Well no, you do like everyone did, you get your cards one at a time and in the meantime you use smth else which is more or less similar and cheaper than the actual card you want. Or what, does't it mean without all the big staples you can't have fun? does it mean that if you don't win a tour right now, there's no fun?

Problem is not people wanting them for $5 each or whatever, the problem is legacy will die when Seas and such are $100 per card. When your mana base starts costing $1k before you buy any other cards thats wehn wizards needs to start on reprinting cards.

I personally own 2 full sets of duals plus binders full of almost every other staple in the format and I want my friends to be able to play. So I support a reprint policy in moderation. I say make a MPR card specific to Legacy events Once per month it can be a different card if you participate in 2 events that month you get one. And use that as a way of reprinting legacy staples and getting them out into the market.


But when it cost more then most players can budget for a deck to get started then we will not get any new blood and just like any other format without new blood it eventually dies out. Look at Vintage other then once or twice a year there are no real sanctioned events.

[Nidd]

I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but nevermind.

I don't care about the prices like 2-3 months again. Or even today. Looking at Wasteland and thinking "wow, 12€, ok." is alright, buying 2 U Sea for 40€ each was ok for me. But the problem I see arising is not that people have to buy the cards for these prices - it's rather that there won't be enough available when the format has grown bigger.


And seriously, if you think you can replace Duals by using Shocklands, then you must be trolling. Shocklands are not acceptable for the majority of decks.

[ryO!]

And seriously, if you think you can replace Duals by using Shocklands, then you must be trolling. Shocklands are not acceptable for the majority of decks.

and? it's something similar and yet not as good but affordable, i am not talking about being competitive but playable. You still can have fun with it with friends so please don't say it's an efficiency matter when you still can go to a tour have fun with it. it's not like you ll finish first even with Usea ... You all say it's a game, but it seems by game you mean competition to get 1st rather than a fun game.

[Nidd]

and? it's something similar and yet not as good but affordable, i am not talking about being competitive but playable. You still can have fun with it with friends so please don't say it's an efficiency matter when you still can go to a tour have fun with it. it's not like you ll finish first even with Usea ... You all say it's a game, but it seems by game you mean competition to get 1st rather than a fun game.

Some people are Spikes, some people are Johnnys, some people are Timmys.

Winning is more fun than losing, isn't it?

By the way, if you want to play only with friends, then sure, Shocklands are considerable. I want to go to tournaments and place somewhere T16 or even T8. I can't afford to pay 2 life to have an untapped land. For some decks that might even be doable, but certainly not for DDANT.

[ryO!]

Some people are Spikes, some people are Johnnys, some people are Timmys.

Winning is more fun than losing, isn't it?

By the way, if you want to play only with friends, then sure, Shocklands are considerable. I want to go to tournaments and place somewhere T16 or even T8. I can't afford to pay 2 life to have an untapped land. For some decks that might even be doable, but certainly not for DDANT.

playing is fun no matter if you lose or win damn it, it really seems like a spoil child talk : "if i don't win i quit!" "if i don't have this exact deck i quit" (no offence i mean i rly think that the efficiency matter shouldn't be taken into consideration).

as for the second statement, well don't play DDANT.

Don't forget that as long as it ll remain a non free game, there will ALWAYS have inequalities ... and the solution isn't to systematically reprint every card that goes above 20/30$ ...

[Nidd]

playing is fun no matter if you lose or win damn it, it really seems like a spoil child talk : "if i don't win i quit!" "if i don't have this exact deck i quit" (no offence i mean i rly think that the efficiency matter shouldn't be taken into consideration).

as for the second statement, well don't play DDANT.

Don't forget that as long as it ll remain a non free game, there will ALWAYS have inequalities ... and the solution isn't to systematically reprint every card that goes above 20/30$ ...

We can now go into a discussion in order to define fun. But I don't think we both don't want to write novels, do we?

Okay, so let's talk about card availability and the consequences.
What do you think will happen when one day a Dual costs 100€+?
Manabases are the core of every deck and you can't build a competitive manabase (yes, I'm now talking about competitive, because apparently that's where we are heading now, thanks to WotC) without Duals. What is the consequence, then?
There aren't enough Duals for the GPs this year, it seems. Prices will rise until they are over.

[ryO!]

We can now go into a discussion in order to define fun. But I don't think we both don't want to write novels, do we?

Okay, so let's talk about card availability and the consequences.
What do you think will happen when one day a Dual costs 100€+?
Manabases are the core of every deck and you can't build a competitive manabase (yes, I'm now talking about competitive, because apparently that's where we are heading now, thanks to WotC) without Duals. What is the consequence, then?
There aren't enough Duals for the GPs this year, it seems. Prices will rise until they are over.

yes but then show me how a reprint would drastically reduce the price of duals?

reprint Dual in M11 !
Dual land black bordered in T2/Extented again, price drop? serioulsy? please ...
foil dual land, price drop? seriously ? again please ...

reprint in FTV !
u think u ll get them for (the box) 35$ in shop? seriously? please ...
foil dual land, price drop? seriously ? again please ...

reprint as mythic because they are so hard to find !
so mythic cards are harder to find? seriously? please ...

reprint them a common just like random basic land
yeah price drop !

Proper spelling and capitalisation is required on this forum. Please proceed to use it. ~Nihil Credo

[Phoenix Ignition]

This is a card game, not the stock market. Like many people keep saying, Wizards doesn't make money off collectors, they make it off the players.

Many people are ignorant, and don't understand what a secondary market does to keep the primary market going. Here, for you and everyone else who agrees with that statement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_market . Wizards makes money off of a strong secondary market backing up the cards prices so that people can justify spending 70$+ on 36 packs of cards. People assume they will be able to get some value out of this due to a highly liquid secondary market. This thread is becoming stupider than N&D.

[Misplayer]

playing is fun no matter if you lose or win damn it, it really seems like a spoil child talk : "if i don't win i quit!" "if i don't have this exact deck i quit" (no offence i mean i rly think that the efficiency matter shouldn't be taken into consideration).

This is a ridiculous statement. You're telling me you have as good of a time going 0-5 then when you go 5-0 and top 4/8? Hell, I get pissed when I finish 3-2 at a local event. I'm a competitive person so that contributes, but since when is going winless fun? If that's true, then you wouldn't conceivably ever need ANY of the expensive legacy staples. Is Tarmogoyf more fun than Werebear? Is Force of Will more fun than Counterspell? The reason these cards are desireable is because they make it easier to win. Competing and winning is arguably one of the biggest factors behind the prices of cards on the secondary market. People don't want to play 43Lands and Retainers-Iona because it's fun, they want to win.

/RANT

I'm curious about how much the discussion in this thread alone has contributed to the online blowout of cards like Loyal Retainers. If I didn't regularly read the Survival threads, this card wouldn't even be on my radar screen were it not for threads like this. I'd guess that at least 5 or 6 people scoured the internet and bought up all the copies they could find just because of what they read in this thread, likely for speculative purposes.