[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[Richard Cheese]

I have an excellent credit score and make a fair amount of money annually, but have little in cash reserves (a factor when trying to get a loan) and only a few thousand saved for a down payment (even if the bank allows a 4% downpayment, that still is nowhere near enough).

I can either spend the next 10-12 months saving away money while interest rates and home prices continue to rise, or I could cash out relatively soon and have the down payment necessary for me to get my foot in the door (pun intended). I really want to wait a bit though as Magic means a lot to me and cashing out means I won't be buying back in (for those cards anyway).

I've also heard of people taking out a second loan at a higher interest rate just to act as a downpayment. I don't know much of the details, but I could see it being a reasonable option if it lets you get in at a lower interest rate on your mortgage and overall home price. Might be worth looking into though.

[Barook]

Well, a lot of Miracle lists also play Volc, along with Patriot, UR Delver, RUG, and Sneak Show. So it makes sense it would be a little more, but not the huge gap that currently resides. FWIW, I'm expecting all blue duals over 200 by June.

Exactly what I was referring to last page. They're planning something, and it's most likely an attempt to move as many players as possible to Modern. This will only benefit them and Wizards in the long run, it's happening sooner than I initially thought. That makes me a saaadd panda :'(.

If SCG is now going to butcher the format it has fattened for years, it sure looks like the time is now. Lands are the bottleneck of the format and every deck runs some kind of staple land, be it fetches, duals, Wasteland, Ports, etc. and there's no way to avoid that if you want to be competitive.

Nurturing their Modern GP was just another sign of that. While I don't see a clear "Fuck you, dear Legacy live stock, play Modern now!" for 2015, I can definitely see a gradual shift towards Modern happening next year with part Legacy Opens and part Modern Opens. Even with an increasing player base, somewhat stable prices don't suddenly explode like that.

No matter how you spit it - since SCG is the driving force behind those price rises, they might have an agenda that isn't just "lol more profit".

Quick question: How did the death of Vintage affect the Vintage-only format staples?

[Megadeus]

UR is very highly played. All delver decks outside of BUG play at least 3, Sneak and show, miracles, storm variants. I said a few months ago somewhere that Volcanic would surpass USea. It finally caught up.

[Bertrand Hustle]

If SCG is now going to butcher the format it has fattened for years, it sure looks like the time is now. Lands are the bottleneck of the format and every deck runs some kind of staple land, be it fetches, duals, Wasteland, Ports, etc. and there's no way to avoid that if you want to be competitive.

Nurturing their Modern GP was just another sign of that. While I don't see a clear "Fuck you, dear Legacy live stock, play Modern now!" for 2015, I can definitely see a gradual shift towards Modern happening next year with part Legacy Opens and part Modern Opens. Even with an increasing player base, somewhat stable prices don't suddenly explode like that.

True Name Nemesis being released is another sign that Wizards frankly doesn't give a fuck either and is at the very least indifferent, if not committed to destabilizing the format.

One thing that didn't go exactly as planned with these latest Commander decks is the imbalance in availability caused by the presence of a highly sought-after Legacy card—True-Name Nemesis—in one of them. While I don't regret printing cards in products like these that are powerful enough to show up in Constructed decks in Eternal formats

They can't be this blind, it's probably the first in many steps to gouge Legacy. The stores racking up land prices and clearing out their inventory another. We already know that Wizards is actively partnering with secondary marketers like SCG, so this really isn't far fetched (no pun intended) at all.

[Koby]

I have an excellent credit score and make a fair amount of money annually, but have little in cash reserves (a factor when trying to get a loan) and only a few thousand saved for a down payment (even if the bank allows a 4% downpayment, that still is nowhere near enough).

I can either spend the next 10-12 months saving away money while interest rates and home prices continue to rise, or I could cash out relatively soon and have the down payment necessary for me to get my foot in the door (pun intended). I really want to wait a bit though as Magic means a lot to me and cashing out means I won't be buying back in (for those cards anyway).

I've also heard of people taking out a second loan at a higher interest rate just to act as a downpayment. I don't know much of the details, but I could see it being a reasonable option if it lets you get in at a lower interest rate on your mortgage and overall home price. Might be worth looking into though.

I don't recommend this plan. You can put as little as 3.5% down but that also requires PMI, which has its own premiums on top of higher interest rates until you reach 20% equity. Using mtg to finance a down payment is fine. I suggest you do it now and set the money aside. Don't do it 3 months near your closing date, as it will raise too many questions.

[Lemnear]

Quick question: How did the death of Vintage affect the Vintage-only format staples?

Pretty stable. Ok, the power price rose recently, but that can have nostalgic reasons and/or is part of the price spiral we witness atm. Aside from that, nobody tries to get rid of his cards for less than he got them for so prices didn't really change for quite a while including previous demand thresholds like Bazaar of Moxen

[JPoJohnson]

Pretty stable. Ok, the power price rose recently, but that can have nostalgic reasons and/or is part of the price spiral we witness atm. Aside from that, nobody tries to get rid of his cards for less than he got them for so prices didn't really change for quite a while including previous demand thresholds like Bazaar of Moxen

While beyond that there are still a lot of people that collect the cards to... well... collect them. They are still a collectible rare item that people like to have/invest. I know several people that obtain the cards to simply frame them like someone would frame stamps or old currency.

[HammafistRoob]

The recent Vintage spike most likely has something to do with Vintage Masters being introduced on MTGO. People are expecting this to spark new interest in the paper format.

[kiblast]

Just started selling most of my staples. I'll be keeping Miracles and its main and sb tools. Maybe a side deck. But when you can get 380 Euros for 4 Exc- Seas and 680 Eur for 4 Exc DCI Wastelands not cashing out seems stupid.

[Lemnear]

The recent Vintage spike most likely has something to do with Vintage Masters being introduced on MTGO. People are expecting this to spark new interest in the paper format.

And we're back to price speculation, aren't we? You are likely right here. Truth might be between being collectors items and the speculation as a result of Vintage Masters.

[ryO!]

one thing though in europe prices are still - far - away from what you have in the us.
People also have to cope with the fact that mtg, no matter the format, has never been so popular so the market is still adjusting/growing. But no matter how you cry about it, that wont change anything. The new diversity (modern, edh, peasant, cube etc) made it a very popular game if not one of the most, which should be a good news. And no you do not need every single playset of staples to enjoy the game, and then again no one forces you to buy a volc at 285$, or any "insert card name" that spikes like hell for somekind of obscure reason. Play with you own means ... and if you think it's time to cash out, cash out, prices will get back down and newcommers will join. In the end it's only a hobby and like every hobby it has a cost. I am not saying that some prices aren't dubious but just take a step back from those card when the price reach a threshold.

[Barook]

one thing though in europe prices are still - far - away from what you have in the us.
People also have to cope with the fact that mtg, no matter the format, has never been so popular so the market is still adjusting/growing. But no matter how you cry about it, that wont change anything. The new diversity (modern, edh, peasant, cube etc) made it a very popular game if not one of the most, which should be a good news. And no you do not need every single playset of staples to enjoy the game, and then again no one forces you to buy a volc at 285$, or any "insert card name" that spikes like hell for somekind of obscure reason. Play with you own means ... and if you think it's time to cash out, cash out, prices will get back down and newcommers will join. In the end it's only a hobby and like every hobby it has a cost. I am not saying that some prices aren't dubious but just take a step back from those card when the price reach a threshold.

It probably has do something SCG not being able to manipulate the European market as easily as they can do it with the US one.

And I doubt prices would go down on the staples due to price memory, which also happened in Vintage, like Lemnear said.

I wouldn't suprised if SCG manipulates the prices of Modern staples in the future the same way they do it with Legacy now. If Wizard has shown anything, then it's their inability to keep Modern's prices in check due to their "protect the collectors" bullshit dogma. And even if they're willing to print cards, then it takes a whooping two years until said card sees a reprint.

Since SCG also most likely gets insider info from Wizards regarding future releases (Godbooks, etc.), their risk of losing money from speculating with Modern staples is rather low.

[Tylert]

It probably has do something SCG not being able to manipulate the European market as easily as they can do it with the US one.

And I doubt prices would go down on the staples due to price memory, which also happened in Vintage, like Lemnear said.

I wouldn't suprised if SCG manipulates the prices of Modern staples in the future the same way they do it with Legacy now. If Wizard has shown anything, then it's their inability to keep Modern's prices in check due to their "protect the collectors" bullshit dogma. And even if they're willing to print cards, then it takes a whooping two years until said card sees a reprint.

Since SCG also most likely gets insider info from Wizards regarding future releases (Godbooks, etc.), their risk of losing money from speculating with Modern staples is rather low.

There is no reserved list for modern cards. I don't think Wizards has any interest in collectors concerning the modern format. After all, wizards does not get any money from them. They only get money from new stuff and i don't think collectors open a lot of boosters...

[Phelix]

There is no reserved list for modern cards. I don't think Wizards has any interest in collectors concerning the modern format. After all, wizards does not get any money from them. They only get money from new stuff and i don't think collecectors open a lot of boosters...

I believe modern masters, as well as GP vegas gave a decent profit.

[Tylert]

I believe modern masters, as well as GP vegas gave a decent profit.

Of course... but it's not at all for collectors, it's for players, and it's good to keep price down... therefore SCG should not be able to drive the price up if wizards keep doing those things...

[Megadeus]

I think we should at least wait until. later this year when SCG will be hosting a Legacy GP in NJ. That will be interesting to see the turnout.

[burtonbaron62]

After all, wizards does not get any money from them. They only get money from new stuff and i don't think collectors open a lot of boosters...

Wizards may not get money from collectors directly, but Wizards is very keen on managing 'Magic's Equity' (Maro's term). Wizards knows that they basically can print money, but they also know that the can't get too greedy without the bottom falling out. IMHO, Wizard's doesn't give a hoot about collectors sitting on piles of duals and power. The care about maintaining the secondary market of the game, because, directly or not, the secondary market is what makes them the most money.

[Barook]

There is no reserved list for modern cards. I don't think Wizards has any interest in collectors concerning the modern format. After all, wizards does not get any money from them. They only get money from new stuff and i don't think collectors open a lot of boosters...

As long as they do stuff like Tarmogoyf at Mythic rarity in a very limited set, prices won't go down.

That said, high prices also make the secondary market more and more attractive for card forgeries. Looks like the Chinese fakes are back:

http://learningkitty.com/2014/04/02/...thering-cards/

[JPoJohnson]

As long as they do stuff like Tarmogoyf at Mythic rarity in a very limited set, prices won't go down.

That said, high prices also make the secondary market more and more attractive for card forgeries. Looks like the Chinese fakes are back:

http://learningkitty.com/2014/04/02/...thering-cards/

Yeah I had heard about that. And from several people I know that got to touch the cards apparently they are quite obviously different in how they feel (bend wrong and too glossy), but in a sleeve from across the table it's rather difficult to tell.

[Barook]

Yeah I had heard about that. And from several people I know that got to touch the cards apparently they are quite obviously different in how they feel (bend wrong and too glossy), but in a sleeve from across the table it's rather difficult to tell.

The problem isn't the quality right now, but things to come when the higher prices attract more professional people.

Printing Magic cards equals printing money, except the authorities care significantly less about fake card board instead of fake bills.