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Thread: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

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    UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Hello all,

    Most of you know me from the land-still thread as I've been piloting that particular brand of awesome for quite a while; however, times as they are I have adapted to the current meta-game with the current list thanks in large part to buddies Paul Kim and Spencer Hayes from team technology.

    Back-story
    Paul, Spencer, and I are testing before the Meandeck Open in november of 09, when paul mentions that he is sick of playing 60 card play bad spells and hope to win.dec. He wants to play something UGw that features noble hierarch qasali pridemage goyf knight of reliquary vendillion clique with the mana denial package of daze and waste. Initially I laugh, crushing his list with Landstill 3-1. His problem was that he was running counterbalance/ top in this list and it slowed him down.

    a few weeks later...
    I call Paul and he mentions that he and Spencer have not only Re-tooled the deck, but it's doing fantastic in the current meta-game.

    Version 2.0
    White Splash Tempo Thresh
    2 misty
    2 flooded
    2 windswept
    1/1/1 Basics (bant)
    3 trop
    3 tundra
    4 waste

    4 noble
    4 qasali
    4 Goyf
    3 v. clique
    2 Knight of the reliquary

    4 force
    4 daze
    4 spell pierce

    4 stp

    4 bs
    4 ponder

    sb:
    2/2 blue blast
    2 teeg
    2 path
    2 needle
    2 relic
    1 tormod's
    2 grip
    Famous!
    Legacy's Allure- Exploring Tempo Bant

    I was shocked to see Paul and Spencer release the deck so quickly. I placed it on the back-burner along with my other pet decks UWb Wish Still, Wu Enchantress (Team Left-Field) and T.ezzeret C.ombo S.tax (idea also from T.L.F.)

    The Call
    So last week I call Paul and tell him I'm sick of my current meta-game of all fish style decks. I want to play W/ Tempo Thresh for reals. I tell him i've done a substantial amount of testing in the meta-game and i'm calling to see if he has any more match-up analysis that I don't know about or alterations that I don't have. He gives me the following.

    White Splash Tempo Thresh

    Lands: 19
    2 misty
    2 flooded
    2 windswept
    1/1/1 Basics (bant)
    3 trop
    3 tundra
    4 waste

    Creatures:18
    4 noble
    4 qasali
    4 Goyf
    2 v. clique
    2 Knight of the reliquary
    2 Rhox Warmonk

    Permission: 11
    4 force
    4 daze
    3 spell pierce

    Removal: 4

    4 stp

    Draw/Kantrip: 8
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    SB:
    2/2 blue blast
    4 relic or 3/1 samurai of the pale curtain/ relic
    2 path
    2 grip
    3 needle
    Fast Forward to the tourney
    The room is small with only 15 or so peeps. Normally we get access of 25, but post Christmas it's been lagging. Hopefully this report attracts some more. All I have to do is dodge the 1 Ichorid pilot (my team-mate) also known as Jurda here.

    r1: L.E.D.-less Ichorid
    Are you kidding me? First round? Fine. He wins the die roll...
    g1:
    I get online quickly, counter his breakthrough, lay goyf, waste city of brass, pummel him to about 14, and he takes over the board with 2/2 zombies, which have a hankering for some Moss-ass.

    g2: sb:
    +4 relic
    -3 spell pierce -1 noble

    I'm unsure if this is the correct side-boarding plan, but I assume it's not a terrible one. We both mul. and keep at 6.
    I have a semi fast start, and end up v cliquing him into city of brass number 3 and pithing needle on relic. I get lucky and race him with clique to 0 life. :)

    g3: I offer the draw he thinks looks at the meta and bites. It appears as if were in good shape in this meta-game. Whew, I am all totes megotes now.

    0-0-1

    Since I have about 25 minutes left in the round an most everyone is still playing (something i'm not really used to playing landstill) I check out the entire meta-game. I think to myself, wow what an advantage this is. Something you all probobly don't know about me is that i've never piloted a creature deck in sanctioned play. I've done my fare share of testing, but we all know thats a hell of a lot different. So I scout the entire damn meta-game. Since there is only about 15 people I go and have a smoke afterwords.


    r2: Faerie Stompy I win the roll
    g1: I take sometime before we cut to consider my sideboarding strategy against him. I saw his last round and so I know he's piloting Faerie Stompy from the scouting. I decide that i'm siding out cliques and rhox warmonks for 2 path 2 grip. I figured this match-up was heavily in my favor.

    I open with the following: 1 fetch 1 wasteland 1 noble 1 qasali 1 spell pierce 1 daze 1 brainstorm. Keep! He casts a turn 2 trinket with city of traitors, I Ok it and waste his city of traitors play noble number 2, and swing with 5/5 qasali, pridemage. He takes 15 eventually before realizing that hes at 10 instead of 12. He quickly goes into protection mode grabbing second mage for the 0/6 0cc goyf blocking wall. I stp said wall and smack him to death. He tries to cast sower of temp, but I force it. Swinging in for lethal the following round.
    g2:
    -2 v clique
    -2 rhox

    +2 path
    +2 grip

    He challices for 1 on t2, followed by land issues, and I run him over with goyf math. (goyf+goyf+goyf=win)

    1-0-1

    r3. Merfolk
    g1: I win the roll with a nice opener of spell pierce forest noble hierarch force and maybe daze? I pierce his t2 vial, force a goyf through, and race him and his 3 lords and a Silvergill Adept. (he has 1 of each lord) Goyfs are 4/5's I go all in with him at 5 and he chumps with 2 lords, if he cracks another lord he wins, he doesn't and conceits to g1 goyf math.

    g2:
    sb:
    -3 spell pierce
    +2 path
    +1 needle

    He starts with island cursecatcher and procedes to stall the next couple of turns. (Apparently his hand was island cursecatcher standstill loa silvergill.) he draws vial, but presents no business and I run him over with Rhox warmonk and a goyf.

    2-0-1

    r4. Faerie sly (new Team-mate) I win the roll (both mull. to 6)
    g1. What you need to know is this is a deck that runs 4 mishra 4 muta tricks with faeries, and runs 2 sower 2 vensor 2 vendillion clique with standstill.
    I'm alittle worried because it's difficult to read his draws. qasali pridemage takes it 4/4 (noble exalted) as he draws nothing but lands apparently.

    g2: ( I mull to 5, him 6.)
    sb:
    -2 clique
    -2 pierce

    +2 grip
    +2 needle

    I realize about half way through our game 2 that he has sided creature heavy and thus my sideboarding strategy is incorrect. He ends up guilded draking a goyf, but realizes it was a mistake when I beat him in the head with a 5/5 drake (exalted) down to 1 life. He then bounces it, and I almost win if it weren't for those blasted kids! No really, I end up with a board position at 3 with triple noble hierarch and top decking nothing. He sees sower venser with riptide lab and its all over.

    g3. Since I realized i'm a dumb-ass (we both mull. to 6)
    sb:
    I change back to the original decklist and procede as follows:
    -3 pierce
    +2 path
    +1 pithing
    I'm on the play. Stuff gets countered I play threats, he counters some, I waste some lands, eventually I have 4 cards in hand. I have the option of dropping goyf or knight (knight would be a 5/5 goyf would be a 5/6) I drop knight (hes playing snare, and he has 6 cards in hand) knight lands, he taps out for venser with lab in play, meets for removing ponder. Goyf lands, he casts jitte cloudof-faeries, standstill, I smash he doesnt block, he attacks I stp, he looses because jitte is terrible on its own.)

    Props/ shout outs
    Recognizing incorrect sideboarding plan in finals
    Paul and Spencer: We're all taking this to the gp right?
    Joe Urda and Dan Buzzy: Team WhoDatNinja 1st,2nd, and 4th what? what?
    Clementz: because you let me borrow deez tings called magic cards.
    UofM: Goblue! Nice win over Ucon men's bb!
    MTG special edition deck box for winning tourney!

    Slops
    buying 2x gold ion deck boxes the week of the tourney... Gave 1 to Joe for doing well, and a playmat the day before. You better buy gold sleeves!

    Not playing samurai of the pale curtain in the board. Should have.... But in the long run the team did better and I still won!

    no top 4. Come on guys im tired of playing swiss, lets finish with t4 and top8's for sanctioned recoreds jeeze!

  2. #2
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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Lotsa blue you killed. Seems like a decent list; sort of an UGW Beatdown-deck, really; doesn't fiddle around with control, just lays down the beats and counters the few relevant card opponent plays FTW. The gameplan seems quite different from traditional Tempo Thresh, but it seems servicable in the role it has.

    Good job; of course, you beat probably the only Faerie Stompy player left in that particular corner of the world which deserves frowns. Also, pity there was no Top 4/8; woulda been interesting to read of few more games. Either way, good showing for the first run.


    By the way, I was paid to advertise Abyssal Persecutor. Abyssal Persecutor is totally gonna ruin your deck! A flying wall that prevents you from losing; how do you kill yourself then?!

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    First of congratz on doing good goyf math.

    I have a couple of questions, as i like the concept of Ugw Tempo ***** quite a bit, but i am not sure if this or New Horizons (more lands and more big beats) is the right approach.

    The questions:
    - Do you think 4 Noble Hierarch is the right number? Its not needed in every matchup and seeing two in the early stages of the game may be unattractive, similiar to seeing two Vials in some decks (not completly filled with creatures like Goblins).

    - Why run Relic over Crypt? It can hurt both Goyf and Knight, the only advantage i see is the first ability and that it replacces itself.

    - Where you satisfied with the Needles over lets say Engineerd Explosives or any other SB card.
    BBB

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    I have a couple of questions, as i like the concept of Ugw Tempo ***** quite a bit, but i am not sure if this or New Horizons (more lands and more big beats) is the right approach.
    I think this model is probobly the best currently because it has the ability to lay an aweful quick clock on the decks that matter in this format. Sacrificing some overall power for speed and denial seems to me like a stronger plan right now.

    The questions:
    - Do you think 4 Noble Hierarch is the right number? Its not needed in every matchup and seeing two in the early stages of the game may be unattractive, similiar to seeing two Vials in some decks (not completly filled with creatures like Goblins).
    I was blessed with Noble in most games and was never dissapointed save one select situation where I had already sided incorrectly (r4 g2). At that point the game could have gone either way. Yes it was a dead card in the end, but when he played guilded drake on me and took goyf, it was all inside smiles.

    - Why run Relic over Crypt? It can hurt both Goyf and Knight, the only advantage i see is the first ability and that it replacces itself.
    I'm not the one backing this, but if I had to go on the back of Paul's advice at the present time i'd probobly run samurai of the pale curtain. It seems like a much stronger piece of hate then either relic or tormod's and I think i'll play 3/1 with relic in the flex. The only reason I would play relic again at the 3 slot is if I expected high ammounts of tempo thresh because it just beats the tar out of them.

    - Where you satisfied with the Needles over lets say Engineerd Explosives or any other SB card.
    Don't get me wrong, engineered explosives is a great card, but needle is reserved for 2 decks and the obvious (if its crazy side it in) matchups. Those matchups are gobbos and 43land, but thats notall so yes 3 needle seems like the right approach to me. I think everything I've talked to Paul about has been spot on. Obviously k grip is substantially stronger in that specific flext slot, and in order to beat ichorid you need minimum 4 removal. So everything else is self explanatory.

  5. #5
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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Nice deck and results. I gotta say though, after playing with it a couple times you need new sideboard graveyard hate. Samurai + KotR = wtf? Relic + goyf + KotR = wtf?

    I could be skewed because my only loss was to reanimator, but I think you just flat out want Ravenous Trap, Tormod's Crypt, and at most 1 Relic unless you have some insider information on what you're going to run into and Samurai somehow blows them out of the water.

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    To me if you board in samurai in the chances that your winning the matchup anyways is probobly greater based on your exalted triggers etc. One is not limited to knight of the reliquary or Goyf, and to be honest goyf is probobly one of the worst creatures in the deck based on that all it does is attack and block. It wins its spot because of its efficiency, nothing else. a 2/3 goyf with samurai seems like a fare trade off against the decks you want see samurai in, aka ichorid etc.

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    But isn't using 3 slots of dedicated sideboard graveyard hate bad if it doesn't really stop Loam or Reanimator?

    Because Samurai is awful at those.

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    But isn't using 3 slots of dedicated sideboard graveyard hate bad if it doesn't really stop Loam or Reanimator?

    Because Samurai is awful at those.
    Fair enough. Suggestion Please?

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986 View Post
    Fair enough. Suggestion Please?
    The hard part, I wasn't really ready for this.

    Probably just use a mix of 3 Crypts and 1 Relic? Maybe 2 and 2 if you think more people are playing aggro loam. Ravenous Trap isn't good against Entomb so I wouldn't run it right now. Also, I like the Nogoyf's take on sideboard hate, spreading it out with 1-ofs of different cards. Wheel of Sun and Moon can seal a win against slow rolling decks, while Tormod's is the best to hit 1st turn. Really hard to say what the "best" is though.

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    I think i'd rather have the 3/1 approach. It seems to me that it promotes the most answers for the mana denial approach ala snap daze your shit, win the game. etc. etc. Also I just kind of run over aggro loam, and ichorid is the worst matchup. So tormod's it is.

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Nice job with the tournament. I've been working on a Tempo Bant list, so I have some questions for you:

    1) Did you test Nimble Mongoose and decide it wasn't good enough? I'm inclined to run Mongoose over Pridemage, but I'd like to hear your take on it.

    2) Any comments on Vendilion Clique vs. Knight of the Reliquary? Has one stood out as being better than the other?

    3) How good were the maindeck Spell Pierces really? You sided them out a lot.
    Last edited by Volt; 01-23-2010 at 05:27 AM.
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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    But isn't using 3 slots of dedicated sideboard graveyard hate bad if it doesn't really stop Loam or Reanimator?

    Because Samurai is awful at those.
    I explained to Joel that Relic is far superior against Life from the Loam decks than Samurai. I suggested Samurai because he was worried about Ichorid and Samurai is a lock and a creature all in one. Your 'Goyfs are still 3/4 without exalted triggers even with a Samurai out since it only removes permanents. If you're concerned about Life from the Loam decks, play Relic. If you're worried about Ichorid, make them fight for their wins by beating a one card lock. If you're worried about both, diversify the sideboard. This was a small event so those were my suggestions. Regarding Relic, we're not worried about shrinking a two-of Knight or Tarmagoyf because, with eight exalted triggers in the deck, all our creatures are large.

    To answer the question about Hierarch's effectiveness, he's a blow out. The most amazing play is to lead with turn one Hierarch, Daze your opponent's spell and still play a Tarmagoyf on turn two. Hierarch makes you largely immune to Wasteland and develops your mana so well that you can play Wasteland yourself. The combination of Hierarch, Daze and Wasteland is the reason to play the deck. Exalted triggers are the nuts. They make you win 'goyf standoffs, make your evasive Cliques bigger than they would normally be in order to race decks with Tombstalker, make your Rhox War Monks insane(r), etc.
    Last edited by Hitman82; 01-19-2010 at 11:16 PM.

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    @The report: Nicely done, I like it a lot. Thanks for sharing it with us.

    @The decklist: Exactly what makes it "Tempo" Thresh, rather than just Thresh?

  14. #14

    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    @The decklist: Exactly what makes it "Tempo" Thresh, rather than just Thresh?
    You gain tempo when you stop your opponent from doing what he wants to do while you advance your own gameplan. This list develops tempo by abusing synergies with Noble Hierarch. The synergy between Noble Hierarch, Daze, Wasteland and, to a lesser degree, Spell Pierce are what gain you tempo because you're stopping your opponent from developing while you develop like normal. Other tempo decks try to do this simply by slowing the development of their opponent's deck with cards like Stifle and Wasteland. Wastelanding someone's land doesn't generate tempo because you haven't developed your manabase with the land you played. However, with Noble Hierarch, you're able to continue to develop your manabase while attacking your opponent's at the same time. Same with the countermagic. With your increasing resources and your opponent's decreasing resources, you continue to put pressure on with lots of creatures that are mana efficient for what they do. The Exalted mechanic has a lot to do with the efficiency of this deck's attack step. Your creatures generally have more value in this deck than in others because of all the exalted triggers. There's nothing Threshold about this deck really. It doesn't need seven cards in the graveyard to do anything.

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman82 View Post
    You gain tempo when you stop your opponent from doing what he wants to do while you advance your own gameplan. This list develops tempo by abusing synergies with Noble Hierarch. The synergy between Noble Hierarch, Daze, Wasteland and, to a lesser degree, Spell Pierce are what gain you tempo because you're stopping your opponent from developing while you develop like normal. Other tempo decks try to do this simply by slowing the development of their opponent's deck with cards like Stifle and Wasteland. Wastelanding someone's land doesn't generate tempo because you haven't developed your manabase with the land you played. However, with Noble Hierarch, you're able to continue to develop your manabase while attacking your opponent's at the same time. Same with the countermagic. With your increasing resources and your opponent's decreasing resources, you continue to put pressure on with lots of creatures that are mana efficient for what they do. The Exalted mechanic has a lot to do with the efficiency of this deck's attack step. Your creatures generally have more value in this deck than in others because of all the exalted triggers. There's nothing Threshold about this deck really. It doesn't need seven cards in the graveyard to do anything.
    Thanks for the good explanation, wouldn't stifle work in this deck too f.e instead of spell pierce ?

  16. #16

    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Spell Pierce serves a very important role in the deck. In general, your creatures are strictly better than your opponents, whether it's because of the quality of them or simply all the exalted triggers. What you're worried about are non-creature spells that can slip through the cracks and overwhelm you. Even Spell Pierce on an opponent's Swords or Force of Will can be absolutely backbreaking.

    Stifle is a hit or miss card. I've never been happy with it in a deck. The worst thing a tempo deck can do is hold Stifle mana open and not have a fetchland to Stifle. Your opponent just gained tempo on you because you did nothing on your turn hoping they would pop a fetchland. Besides, when people see Daze and/or Wasteland they're probably assuming you play Stifle or playing around it just in case you do anyway.

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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman82 View Post
    Spell Pierce serves a very important role in the deck. In general, your creatures are strictly better than your opponents, whether it's because of the quality of them or simply all the exalted triggers. What you're worried about are non-creature spells that can slip through the cracks and overwhelm you. Even Spell Pierce on an opponent's Swords or Force of Will can be absolutely backbreaking.

    Stifle is a hit or miss card. I've never been happy with it in a deck. The worst thing a tempo deck can do is hold Stifle mana open and not have a fetchland to Stifle. Your opponent just gained tempo on you because you did nothing on your turn hoping they would pop a fetchland. Besides, when people see Daze and/or Wasteland they're probably assuming you play Stifle or playing around it just in case you do anyway.
    O.k. i think i got it, last weekend i played Candian ******** and played 3 Rounds against deck without duals and 2 of them without fetchlands

    But is wasteland (and Daze) enough to make the spell pierce good ?
    I played bant Survival and know how much pressure can come with exalted even with a pridemage attacking....Is that the tempoadavantage from this deck, so that the opponent can't wait until he has enough Mana for sword and to pay for spell pierce ?

    I hope my questions aren't too ordinary ?

    Edit : Is here a primer where this deck is dicussed ?

  18. #18
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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    You don't have to support Spell Pierce at all. It is a fine card on its own that can easily function the way you want it to without the addition of Wasteland and Daze. It does, however, get better when those two compliment it.

    For example, Daze does not have to be played in conjunction with Wasteland, as you can see in CounterTop lists and the like. However, it does get better with it because Wasteland keeps Daze "turned on" for a longer period of time. The same is true for Spell Pierce.

  19. #19
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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    I'm sorry but isn't this just a BANT agro list?

    Playing Wasteland and spell pierce is not the only reason to call a deck "tempo". The deck looks nice, though it's hard to call a deck "tempo" playing Swords to Plowshares putting your opponent on 26 life total.
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  20. #20
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    Re: UGw Tempo Thresh Takes Lansing, MI

    Quote Originally Posted by Jak. View Post
    You don't have to support Spell Pierce at all. It is a fine card on its own that can easily function the way you want it to without the addition of Wasteland and Daze. It does, however, get better when those two compliment it.
    I disagree. I keep wanting Spell Pierce to be good, but each time I try playing it maindeck, I end up being pretty disappointed. Once again, I'll note that Mossivo sided them out in 3 of his 4 matches. It seems to me that Spell Snare is still a better option.
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