The list I'm on is basically similar to Neely's so I do have stp in the side. I actually did side out similar your recommendation, apoc. Although I took out teeg, both library and a single loam instead of the chalices. I think I just need to figure out what are good opening hands and when to mulligan. Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Teeg is very safe to board out (my board was overgeneral as I mentioned). Tho Library is one of your strongest midrange tools. I'd only board them out in matchups like Infect where they are unlikely to hit the board. Every GBx matchup I've experienced that a Library stuck, it won the game for that player. Loam is safe to board out without wasteland targets. Otherwise (against mav, jund, BUG etc) it is quite good.
4-0'd into first place at our weekly in Melbourne last night, had a whopping 37 players (this is a huge number for us).
Beat ANT 2-1, Sneak and show 2-1, Miracles 2-0 and DNT 2-1.
Running a fairly stock list with 5 fetches, a forest and a swamp. Played crop rotation/tabernacle in the board with DD in the main.
Thoughts; Sanctum Prelate is damn scary, though a timely toxic deluge got me there. I found two basics in the main a HUGE help against DNT.
I noticed I quite liked my main deck against Miracles, any posts I should see for sideboarding in this match up?
I play Loams sometimes.
Niklas made a list a couple pages ago: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post952510Originally Posted by juzamjimjams
Aside of RG Lands, where do we want to side OUT DD/(stage)?
Obviously i'd like to keep Stage vs Lands. But DD itself is a liability.
Also i think i do not care for DD/Stage vs Miracles since they run 9/10 instant speed answers to it.
Btw, that primer gets us nowhere, lol.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
DD is in a weird spot against Miracles. They have a lot of answers to it, but if they don't have an answer they're dead. I find often the games play out in a way due to your draw/mulligan that you realize DD is a great option to have in the matchup. You just have to ask yourself if making the token will be a worthwhile exchange of resources in the event that they can answer it.
I'd also consider boarding DD out vs Death & Taxes. I think its worse against D&T than Miracles.
Mats_Ole, the guy who is responsible for like 80% of aggro loam finishes on modo, is streaming:
https://www.twitch.tv/mats_
So after playing against elves a bunch of times o can't really figure out some thing. I know heritage druid and drs are kill now things. I'm having trouble when to board wipe. Wait until they over commit or use it on the combo pieces right away?
I think it's just situational, if you think they will be able to generate card advantage with only symbiotic and visionary out you most likely need to find a way to kill the insect, sometimes you don't get that big of pay off and have to use a wipe to only kill 1 or 2 creatures with it
Has anyone tried the traditional 3 cycle land mana base without depths and replacing a cycle with a basic swamp? I feel this would improve other wasteland centric decks
There's a huge amount of DNT in my local meta and I got sick of having my 4 color mana base getting hassled - You can't even really rely on mox diamonds in this match up due to revokers/flickerwisps.
This is my attempt at supporting the DD combo as well as a higher basic count:
4 mox diamonds
1 forest
1 swamp
1 canopy
1 barren moor
4 verdant catacombs
1 windswept heath
2 bayou
1 taiga
1 savannah
1 scrubland
1 badlands
4 wasteland
1 maze of ith
1 dark depths
1 thespian's stage
1 karakas
3 grove of the burnwillows
1 dryad arbor
I've found the 2/2 split with basics and cycles to be a little more resilient to mana denial strategies, and whilst canopy hurts, the benefit of fixing as well as the tricks with crop rotation (out of the side) make it worth it.
Originally I tried dumping the DD combo but I ended up with this due to the incidental flexibility the combo gives you in certain match ups.
I play Loams sometimes.
Thanks after more testing that's exactly what I had to do. Incidentally getting the wasteland lock is one of the most satisfying thing I have gotten to do in magic.
After putting in some reps of 4c loam, when it works it feels really good and almost unbeatable, but good god I wanna throw the 4 color mana base across the room sometimes. Also I hate infect.
A local player has been putting in 2 Ghost Quarters in place of Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage to prevent people from thinking that the lone basic island in their deck will somehow make them safe from the cold, steel bars of a prison deck. Has anyone else been trying out a similar strategy? I'll probably be trying it out at EE5, myself.
My initial thoughts on it are that
- Miracles gets much better since you can remove every single white source they have much more easily now
- Shardless BUG gets better since it might actually be possible to out-grind them if you loam back 3 strip mines a turn; also, Shardless runs a ton of baleful strixes now to combat Eldrazi making the Depths combo worse against them
- You're more likely to mana-deny Eldrazi but don't have the crutch of the combo to fall back on, although if Knight is out, you may already be stabilized. Probably a wash?
- I think I'd rather have 2 more strip mines against delver than the DD/TStage combo
- D&T definitely gets worse
- Blood Moon decks gets a little worse since there's a chance you can copy your basic forest before moon drops
- Lands is probably a wash
With 2 Ghost Quarters in the board, I'd probably want something like Kolaghan's Command or Lilliana, the Last Hope in the board in place of a Swords to shore up the D&T match a bit.
Adding Ghost Quarters feels really weird. Depending on how many basics the opponent plays of course, the card is textless for a large part of the game, and opens up the opportunity to start Strip Mining the opponent at a point where we are heavily favored.
Against ay deck with 2-3 basics you never want to GQ them before all 3 are out, so unlike wasteland it isn't mana denial in the early/mid game.
Later on in the game when you could be Marit Laging them to death, or not loaming you are establishing a hard lock.
It feel like losing a strength (A fast kill that has minimal opportunity cost, and minimal splash damage from problem cards) for a more grave-centric and slow gameplan. I don't really see the appeal.
We are kind of comparing apples to oranges so it is hard to evaluate. Stage-Depths is like Monastery Mentor and GQ is like Predict in that one is a stupidly powerful win con that lets the deck do very different things, while the other is like an Energy Field where under the right conditions it locks the opponent out of most of a game.
Miracles: You probably gain points, but Lage has won me plenty of games just by letting Knight be lethal despite a RIP, or being an uncounterable win con.
BUG: I don't think the opponent having a single chump blocker has ever stopped me, even if I have no removal in hand. They still don't have an easy answer. Playing strip mine against them would be nice tho.
Eldrazi: Yeah, probably a wash. Tho if they come out of the gates very quickly the GQs stop mattering, and Stage-Depths could be quite vital.
D&T: IMO this actually gets a tiny bit better, but only because Depths does not make mana and GQ#2 does.
Moon: You now get to GQ yourself in the corner case that the moon is late and you don't have Mox/Fetch/Forest. Honestly this should not be a consideration unless they are a big deal in your meta. If you keep a hand with Green mana through moon against Stompy/Painter you will be fine.
Lands: Depths is a liability, and it is quite possible to color screw Lands. I'd say this is an improvement.
I'd look into having 1 GQ in the board so you can swap it with Depths in the right matchup. GQ#2 is not needed as Knight/Loam already give you GQ in the late game scenario. Oor you could cut 3rdGrove/1stManland/3rdCycle which contribute less to the deck.
Last edited by apocolyps6; 10-14-2016 at 11:50 PM.
Went 1-3 at the EE5 event. Running the stock list I have been playing for months. Recently though I have not been doing so well. I can only attribute it to my luck and some very minor play errors. I faced these 4 decks:
Eldrazi - 2-0 - what helped is now having 3 STP's in the board. What started as 0 has slowly gone to 3.
BUG Delver with TNN 1-2 - Win game 1 lose game 2 and 3. I feel this is a decent matchup and I feel my opponent made a crucial mistake in game 3 killing my COTV on 1 instead of my knight, but did so to cast needle on knight. Had I ripped a decay the game was over with DD/TS and if I ripped a Lilli it would have secured the beating I started taking from TNN.
Grixis Delver - 1-2 - Win game 1 lose game 2 and 3 again. I did make a mistake in game 3 that eventually cost me the game. I had an active knight with 4 lands in the yard. He taps out to cast a painful truths this is now the second turn in a row. I go for Maze of Ith filling my yard to 5 lands. I swing with knight and dryad to drop him down to 8 and use maze to untap. He goes ponder and maybe brainstorm. I think about it and at this point EoT go to find a land filling my yard to 6 lands knight is an 8/8. He snaps off bolt/dismember killing my knight. I search up for a Grove in hopes of finding a P.fire. Maze dies to waste. Big fish comes down and hits a few turns before I eventually chump with arbor. When I eventually find the p.fire he is at three and I cannot double fire him before dieing to the fish. So had I just not gone to get a land I could have possibly rode him to victory, but i may have been waiting awhile for that fetch/waste to ensure knight wouldn't have died.
Lands - 1-2 - Win game 1 lose game 2 and 3. The only minor misplay here was fetching for a forest instead of a bayou in game 3 as I had lili in hand or any land for that matter, I don't think I had a turn 2 play. Game 2 and 3 he had exploration DD/TS by turn 2 made the laige immediately.
My only luck on the weekend was nabbing the give away timetwister, yay $375!!!
Got destroyed by Aluren tonight. I'm guessing teeg, chalice, STP, PF, containment priest(?), thoughtsieze and thalia are the way to go?
containment priest doenst work agaisnt aluren
Yeah Aluren lets creatures be cast, just without paying mana, Ethersworn Canonist is more of what you'd be looking for I think.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Anyone else trying the ghost quarter path? Lands loves it...I don't know if Loam has the space, but replacing the DD combo and aiming for a more extended game seems strong.
Likely good with tabernacle too.
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