Is there any configuration of the manabase for this that could work without Bayous? I have been having a hard time tracking them down but I have 4x Savannah, 2x Badlands, 2x Taiga and a Scrubland.
Last edited by crowe_1; 06-03-2018 at 11:25 AM.
Theres Naya Loam that cuts black for more white but it also runs 4 goyfs https://thesaltminesite.com/2017/07/...ernal-masters/
^
Thank you for the suggestion, but that version unfortunately runs Plateaus so it’s the same sort of situation. I appreciate the reply though!
With the black version, would an extra Badlands and perhaps an Urborg meet the black requirement? What kind of opening sequences do you NEED Bayou for?
A singleton Murmuring Bosk can be really decent.
Downside is ofc the ping for W/B and etb Tapped, but it also has the Upside of helping with the 4c Manabase.
That makes worth considering it even if you own Bayous.
Ok thanks guys. Guess I will have to track down some Bayous...
Probably more important for decks trying to get T2 Sylvan/Bob, T3 Liliana. Liliana or Decay are really the pieces for needing an early Bayou. Savannah into Urborg should be okay.
Try it out by subbing Urborg and see how that goes, but you'll have some difficulty in fetch situations.
New Naya Loam list from my excursions with Maverick:
Rocks(8)
4 Mox Diamonds
4 Chalice of the Void
Removal(7)
4 Punishing Fire
3 Engineered Explosives
Selection/Advantage(7)
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Life from the Loam
2 Sylvan Library
Dudes(14)
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ranumap Excavator
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
Land(24)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
Sideboard(15)
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Kozilek's return
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Ground Seal
1 Reclamation Sage
Buried Ruin prolly has a home but the list is super cool so far. I <3 Big Thalia in the format right now.
Thoughts?
Last edited by lavafrogg; 06-06-2018 at 01:40 PM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Your list has 63 cards in it. Is that intentional?
How do you feel about only 2 loams? Excavator obviously fills that role as well. I know someone at my local that includes 1x Deathrite Shaman in his agro-loam list, just to fetch with GSZ. It is a non-bo with Chalice@1 but with only one card it can be worked around easily enough.
EDIT: Selection/Advantage only has 7 actual cards listed, but it says 10. My bad, sorry.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Thank you for finding that! I could not for the life of me find the mistake last night.
2 Loam/2 Library worked for me in 4c Loam so I think it can work here.
The 1 DRS could be worth it, but EE is for DRS as well. Explosives could just be councils judgement or Blessed Alliance not sure which.
3 removal slots:
Options
Engineered Explosives
Blessed Alliance
Abrade
Councils Judgement
Decimate
Last edited by lavafrogg; 06-07-2018 at 04:06 AM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Hi guys! I heard that this is the one archetype that never had DRS (with the ocasional oddball singleton) in it. Maybe a revival is in order?
Hi,
I just 5-0 a league with aggro loam and it felt very strong. I beat goblins, rug delver, tes and ant. Here is my list for reference:
Creatures 10
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddok Teeg
Spells 24
4 Mox Diamond
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Punishing Fire
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Life from the Loam
2 Sylvan Library
Lands 26
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Badlands
1 Barren Moor
2 Bayou
1 Cabal Pit
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Maze of ith
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tiaga
1 Tranquil Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
Sideboard
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Containment Priest
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Golgari Charm
It is pretty stock, but a bit more on the controlling side with 3 Liliana 4 Decay and 2 Sylvan Library. Golgari Charm is very strong at the moment in my opinion. at least 3 Thalia is a must as well.
Some Matchup Analysis Thoughts:
Rug Delver:
Leyline and Golgari Charm are very strong in this matchup. It feels favorable. If they have Goyfs, keep all 4 decays in.
Reanimator:
Favorable G2-3
Ant/Tes:
Favorable G2-3 The 3 Golgari Charms are great here. They protect your thalia or teeg as well against abrupt decay and fatal push
DNT:
I havent played this matchup yet with Brightling, but I believe that is the key card to manage. KOTR will hopefully neutralize him. Golgari charm shines in this matchup as well. Containment Priest will be important to neutralize Brightling / Vial
Miracles:
(I think this is going to be the best deck moving forward) This is a bit of a difficult matchup as KOTR is bad here. This is why I think playing 2 Libraries and 3 Liliana is important. A good miracles player will not let you grind them out with the graveyard engines so it is important lock the game down in the mid game. They will win the late game in my experience. I am still trying to figure out the right balance of pressure and how many KOTR to cut. I may want to add another card that has game against miracles in the sideboard such as Chandra.
Eldrazi:
Difficult in my experience. The plows in the board are mainly for this matchup and merit lage. Liliana of the veil is important to kill the 4-5cc creatures on curve. They will mull to a leyline of the void, so golgari charm is great here. It kills mimics and allows KOTR to stabilize the game. It is better to play confidant / library than to attack their mana in the early game in my experience
Moon Stompy:
Positive Matchup. Charms keep your P-fire engine on line and Thalia's get you to the late game to grind them out.
I think Aggro Loam can be T1 in this new meta. The question is how to battle with UW control. Any Ideas?
Congratulations, I went 4-1 in a 36 man tournament today loosing against burn(which I think is almost impossible to win). Regarding you main, I play a very similar list with the exception of 1 vindicate instead of the 4th abrupt, I think without grixis delver this card becomes worse. I also play 1 toxic main. I agree with you description of the different MU. However, I disagree in some sideboard decisions. Playing only golgari charm and no toxic seems wrong to me, you wont be able to kill nimble mangoose with threshold, and some d&t and maverick creatures. The great part about toxic is that while it can work as a bad golgari charm, it can also be used as one target removal or like mass removal for any thoughness. The second thing that strikes me ls that you dont play walkers as a second plan postboard. Imo, now more than ever with all the gy hate that we will see it is going to be more important to have this plan B. It is also the best wincon against uw control and other grindy decks. I play 1 chandra and 1 garruk and they have won so many games for me. Finally, I will think about you 3 Thalia plan, they are great but not good enough agaisnt S&t and reanimator where thoughtsize ( in my case) is great.
I feel like we are in a good spot right now if we know’ how to board correctly. For example, I would never bring leyline against rug delver, it will likely be card disadvantage and almost useless if you have to cast it.
I am trying 1 cavern of souls in place of a windswept heath and keeping 13 humans g2-3 and slow rolling the threats as un-counterables but I am still struggling to beat top miracles players.
You make good points. I was playtesting overloading on the golgari charm as apposed to toxic deluge because I had the sense that -1,-1 instant speed was very well positioned with everyone trying out goblins, dnt, maverick and rug delver. So far it has been excellent as I went 4-1 in 2 more leagues today, but deluge is definitely the stronger card and might be better to have a 2-1 split. I just wanted to see what it was like having golgari charm a lot in post board games.
I also agree on the planewalker sb plan. I was thinking 1 liliana the last hope and 1 chandra but I did not know what to cut because I want 9 solid combo hate cards and space is tight. It is really only for the UW matchup that I want the extra planeswalkers.
Vindicate is great. I'll try it out again. I have been leaning toward leyline of the void against rug as it synergized well with golgari charm and has been very impactful in all matches I have it in my opening 7. RUG is already very threat light and with the new 4 mongoose 4 delver 2 Mandrils plan (TNN in the board), I felt like Leyline + Charm was worth the card disadvantage. I currently have some bias because it has been good for me in recent games.
What is your sideboard map? Thank you for the suggestions!
The instant speed is very strong in golgari charm, also the fact that it destroys enchantments makes it even better. I would like to play 2-2 split if I can make space.
My current side is
3 leyline
2 thalia
1 containment
2 swords to plow
2 thoughtseize
1 toxic deludge
1 reclamation sage
1 golgari charm
1 garruk
1 chandra
I guess my plan is pretty standard, however I only tend to side in leyline against decks that will destroy them and not just damage their gameplan. Its just too bad if you dont draw it in you first hand against those decks imo.
Walkers come in against control, mirror and all MU where I spect graveyard hate.
Another thing I will like to try in the fiture is collective brutality instead of thoughtsize.
Also, Inmentioned before playing vindicate instead of the 4th abrup, while this is great against slow control or prison decks, i really dislike the card against tempo decks, Uf you spect plenty of these I would say your 4 abrupt plan is better.
Not sure if you wanted to talk about a specific card plan or not but we can discuss it as otherwise this thread is usually dead.
Rug Delver has historically been an extremely positive matchup. To the point that I wouldn't be worried about it even with 0 sideboard cards. Keeping lands + removal spells is often good enough to drag the game out of the early turns and out of reach for them. They have so much trouble dealing with a resolved knight, or chalice, and almost everything else we can get going is good against them too. I board in plows and deluges over bobs and teeg here.
I put a ton of hours into grinding the miracles matchup before the top ban, and back then it was quite positive for us. I had something like a 90% win rate and I wasn't even playing liliana back then. The modern lists are a bit more ready for us (mentor fixes a lot of their problems) but almost nothing we do is bad in the matchup. Knight was a strong threat because I played the Stage-Depths combo, forcing them to play the whole game with a plow up that they can't use. 2nd library in the main was great. I'd board in 2 chokes, 2 Thalias, a planeswalker if I had it over a pfire, scooze, DRs, loam, and a mox. A lot of the game was about (if your hand allowed for it) putting pressure on them and forcing out removal at awkward times so they can never set up properly.
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