How's it gone so far? I came 25th out of 90 players at Australian Eternal Masters last weekend with the list I posted earlier in this thread. Started the day 4-1 and was running really hot, winning rounds 3, 4 and 5 2-0. Eventually in round 6 I punted against Shardless in G3, something I'll try to put on the fact that I had 3 hours sleep, but eh a punt is a punt.Originally Posted by CptHaddock
I can't fault you for that, I don't mind losing to moon but hate losing to burn. I put together your list on MTGO (minus the basic plains) and I ran into the same exact problem for what to cut. I will get back to you when I get the time to test it out some more. >_>
Overall the deck has felt super smooth, there's definitely tuning to be done though. My next article for the Salt Mine will give a proper rundown of my tournament, and I'll look at some of the more common match ups.
Would anyone be interested in joining a 4c Loam specific Facebook group? A couple of the other communities have these as an easier, less formal means of bouncing ideas off of eachother. If you're keen, chuck me a PM and I'll send you the URL.
I play Loams sometimes.
Awesome, looking forward to the article. Currently i am still on a depate if i want to keep this deck as my main competative deck or switch to combo.
Is it also ok to consider this post as the PM?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
It's been a nice change of pace from 4c Loam, having a goyf to drop/GSZ for late game has been significantly better than chump blocking Anglers with confidants. I do really miss having the Leylines though, Macabres while good haven't really been as game ending as Leylines. I might try some tormod's crypts and if that doesn't work go back to playing Leylines.
Only other problems that I have had are the same as 4c loam where I end up drawing lands when I need spells and spells when I need lands but I guess that is the price of not playing cantrips.
Niklas's list is probably still a good starting point. You have a bunch of flex spots to play around with too, i'd recommend a pit (there seem to be way more D&T players on mtgo now) and maybe a deluge main for the school of TNNs that are out and about. I think that Stuhl's or Mat's lists are still good starting points if you want something a little more up to date.
Awesome thanks.
I have been playing this list:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/673459#online
and so far I am 8-3 in matches on mtgo. I lost to BUG Control, Painter, and BR Reanimator, with wins against BR Reanimator x3, Death and Taxes, Burn, Grixis Delver, and New Miracles.
I feel as though the positioning of the deck is better than it was with top in the format, more decks that get hosed by chalice @ 1 flying around.
I think you guys should be more excited about this dude. This is a very powerful magic card and it fits in super well with everything this deck is doing. With GSZ you have 5 copies. KotR Wasteland-locking somebody came with some cost to your own manabase before now. I can't imagine not playing one in the main.
I 100% agree although most lists don't run 4 GSZs like Maverick. I can see where apocolyps6 is coming, he tends to play a more conservative list than most.
I'm not unexcited, I'm cautiously optimistic. The pros are pretty clear. The cons, IMO are that Crucible Dude is a grave-deponent 3drop, which puts him in competition with Knight. Not in deck building obviously, but in situations where you are zenithing for 3 or have both in hand. I think most of the time I'd prefer to have a knight. I've played other zenithable 3drops like Leovold/Courser/Tracker before, and I almost never ended up picking them over Knight.
That being said, I'm going to swap him in for a bob as soon as I can, and hope that my concerns are proven wrong.
I'm down for a FB Group. I asked stihl(guy that top 8 the mkm event) he felt 4color loam dose not have enough of a following.
I can't really see how you can make a following without being willing to promote it.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1598499410162313/
I play Loams sometimes.
Best of luck to everyone at the GP today!
Over the last three weekly legacy events I am 9-2-1. The deck has exceeded expectations and of course is a blast to play. Here is the list:
4 verdant catacombs
2 windswept heath
2 bayou
1 badlands
1 savannah
1 scrubland
1 taiga
1 forest
4 wasteland
3 grove of the burnwillows
1 karakas
1 maze of ith
1 barren moor
1 tranquil thicket
1 dark depths
1 thespian's stage
4 dark confidant
4 knight of the reliquary
1 dryad arbor
1 gaddock teeg
1 scavenging ooze
4 chalice of the void
4 mox diamond
3 liliana of the veil
3 abrupt decay
3 punishing fire
2 green sun's zenith
2 life from the loam
1 sylvan library
1 toxic deluge
sideboard:
3 leyline of the void
2 thoughtseize
2 ethersworn canonist
2 swords to plowshares
2 golgari charm
1 garruk relentless
1 reclamation sage
1 toxic deluge
1 collective brutality
Matchups:
Esper Stoneblade - W - 2-0
Elves - W - 2-0
Nic Fit -W - 2-0
Death and Taxes - W - 2-0
Grixis Delver - W - 2-1
Noble Bant - W - 2-1
Team America - W - 2-1
ANT - W - 2-1
Topless Miracles - W 2-1
ANT - L - 0-2
Dark Maverick - L - 0-2
I am aware of the recent slant toward Ghost Quarter and Cabal Pit over Dark Depths combo, but I prefer the latter. I understand that occasionally having Dark Depths in hand can be annoying, but the amount of free wins it generates is worth that downside. Personally, when I stick a Knight I would rather have a tutorable win rather than a tutorable 5th Wasteland or creature removal; the deck is already flush with answers. I have gotten out of many sticky situations with the combo where GQ/CP would not have made a difference, such as flying over a bunch of Elves gumming up the board, racing an ANT opponent, and ignoring a True-Name with equipment.
I am not sure whether Ramunap Excavator is viable in this deck, but I am going to start testing it by cutting one Dark Confidant for it. Having a tutorable quasi-Loam seems reasonable.
How did we do my fellow lands players?
7-2 with no byes, :/How did we do my fellow lands players
Day 2 is when you'll face all the decks on modo that you're used to, and you'll crush them all and top 8
Glad to see you played loam. I saw your name on the standings and was wondering if you were on this or d&t
I got nicfitted out of the GP on day 1.
10-4-1 no byes. Lost to BR reanimator, Czech Pile, Noble Fish, and Burn. If anyone wants to hangout for some casual games and discussion, hit me up.
Scrubbed out against a pair of UW Stoneblade decks after an interesting UB Eldrazi build pushed me into the draw bracket.
Things didn't go well for me, but I am now firmly in the Ajani camp after running him in GPTs on Wednesday and the card being an MVP all day on Thursday. If only he was good against Batterskull on True-Name.
Vengeant?
I play Loams sometimes.
I didn't play this in the main event but I did play the junk loam list in a few side events to mostly subpar results. However, I do think there is some merit to the discussion. I'll just run through all the rounds that I played. There were some changes I made throughout the weekend; most notably playing vindicate in the last version over 1 decay 1 lily and moving sweepers to the side. played a second cabal pit as well
Miracles W 2-1, in the game he won he got gideon ally of zendikar
Elves L 1-2, just couldn't put it together in game 3 after winning game 2 on the back of t1 canonist
Grixis Delver L 1-2, g2 he forced my golgari charm that would've cleared his board, g3 i mulled to 5 but had t1 thalia which ate a force, t2 chalice ate a force and then he drew better than me because his deck had 18 lands not 26
Shardless W 2-0 g1 wastelock g2 marit lage
Burn L 0-2 I died to Flame Rift twice with marit lage in play. g2 i had chalice on 1 and he had price, price, rift bolt, rift bolt, flame rift
Storm W 2-0, g1 i was on the draw with t1 chalice 0 and chalice 1, but he duressed my mox diamond, then i drew another one and made the play. vindicated basic swamp then GSZ for teeg and he conceded with no permanents in play. g2 i had the same opening turn, he gripped the chalice for 1 but i had wasteland into another chalice. luck > skill
BUG delver L 0-2, honestly i just got owned by hymn in these games, i don't know what to say
Miracles L 1-2, he had mentor which i never saw in the first miracles match and it made a huge difference especially since i moved sweepers to the side so g1 had 0 outs
Grixis Delver L 0-2 just another miserable lose die roll vs. delver match
honestly I don't feel like I missed punishing fire much unless you want to assume I always would have it and grove when I need it. I lost a game against the BUG deck where he couldn't stick anything through my cabal pit recursion anyway and i had vindicate for Gurmag Angler (I think i lost to TNN) and I imagine pit + loam is basically the same odds as grove + fire. going wide is a problem, i thought about buying a tabernacle but... yeah. I'd be interested to know how other people did vs. the DRS/Delver decks as I expected a better matchup but it was just miserable every time. vindicating basic island vs. miracles also felt outstanding.
if I had to pick a card I wanted to draw all the time... it would be Painful Truths. Or maybe sylvan library I guess. Just something so when we are seeing 1 card a turn and the other decks are seeing 4-5 with cantrips we can keep up, especially given the high land count. I had my loams extracted a lot. There's only two but just knowing stuff is gone is so miserable.
Hi everyone,
I recently tried some different kind of Aggro Loam. I designed it to crush the annoying Grixis lists :D
4 Dark Confidant
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Grim Flayer
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Life from the Loam
2 Collective Brutality
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Karakas
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Cabal Pit
1 Maze of Ith
1 Volrath's Stronghold
SB:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Containment Priest
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Centaur Vinecrasher
As I played Maverick a long time I really missed the Thalia opening hands which are so often dominant along side Wasteland. Yet, Chalice and Mox are such strong openings that I don't want to miss them either.
So my thoughts are: Why not playing all of it?
Of course Thalia limits some of the classic Aggro Loam cards like PFire and Lili. I decided to cut red as it is only there for PFire. I also cut Lilis as they are so mana intense an demand BB.
Brutality kind of exchanges the PFires as someone suggested earlier in the thread. I play a full playset of Decay as it is the best way to play around Daze and kill anoying Shamans in the early game.
Playing 4 Bobs, 4 Thalia, 4 KotRs and one Grim Flayer makes one single Cavern of Souls (on human) legit. Also, Volrath's Stronghold is a great card to regain value. Playing Thalia suggests more offensive play so Grim Flayer takes the spot of Sylvan Library.
With 4 Chalice, 4 Bob and 4 Thalia nearly any Mox hand is super strong as we more or less always have a 2 drop to play.
2 Ghost Quarters along 2 Loams make sure we always have some lands to destroy. Maybe it's better to play 1 GQ and 3 Loams? Not sure about these small adjustments yet.
I played 4-1 in my first league with the deck and it feels super strong. I'm not sure about specific slots, sometimes the huge colorless mana base was a problem. However, not playing cards like Lili surround this problem little bit.
If you deploy an early Thalia followed by a Bob or KotR closes out games very fast. Cards like Fire and Ice or Forked Bolt hurt really much sometimes. Howver, these cards are rarely played.
With a deck like this some MUs change. The combo MU is super strong. However, the Elves MU gets little worse MD.
I just started to test the list but I feel really (dark) confidant about the direction. It seems greedy in the first spot but the hands seem to be really consistent in its function.
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