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Thread: [Deck] Aggro Loam

  1. #4041

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    How do you guys approach all the BUG piles (TNN, Shardless, Aluren, Food Chain)? I really struggle against those.

  2. #4042

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    You are definitely relying on Wasteland(+Loam) to get you ahead vs BUG. Having the DD-Stage out helps, as besides Diabolic Edict they don't have many ways to deal with it. Toxic Deluge main can help as well especially for TNN versions.

  3. #4043

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Hey all first time poster, been playing loam about a year now, I've been experimenting with red elemental blast as a post board answer to tnn, leovold and jace, It also adds a little protection against show and tell and just as interaction for countermagic.

    I'm also experimenting with an odd configuration of lands creatures and sideboard slots, with a deathrite in the sideboard to come in against bloodmoon, burn decks graveyard strategies and a grim flayer in the main doing a sylvan library on a stick impression. It has strong synergy with Dark confidant life from the loam and punishing fire. I want another set of eyes on this deck just so I can get a second opinion.

    Critique is welcome

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/4colo...m-tour-guides/

  4. #4044

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Treacleson View Post
    Hey all first time poster, been playing loam about a year now, I've been experimenting with red elemental blast as a post board answer to tnn, leovold and jace, It also adds a little protection against show and tell and just as interaction for countermagic.

    I'm also experimenting with an odd configuration of lands creatures and sideboard slots, with a deathrite in the sideboard to come in against bloodmoon, burn decks graveyard strategies and a grim flayer in the main doing a sylvan library on a stick impression. It has strong synergy with Dark confidant life from the loam and punishing fire. I want another set of eyes on this deck just so I can get a second opinion.

    Critique is welcome

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/4colo...m-tour-guides/
    For the REB at least I don't think it worth the two side board slots because we don't have anything to dig for it when we need to like brainstorm decks do if you're looking to use it as a counter.

  5. #4045

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Niklas kronberger played a "new version" of this deck at the mkm Series.
    It looked like he did not play black, but instead blue for flusterstorm, Meddling mage, fow?

    Would be nice to hear your reasoning (of course of the anticipated more combo) and how the deck performed :)

  6. #4046
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Dropped at 5-2 because I had some medical issues and decided to go home. Deck was awesome. It would need someone who has more time than me to test the deck. A friend of mine played it as well and we had a lot of fun. Like Dazing your opponents FOW on your Chalice, hitting a Primeval Titan with Telemin Performance or stealing a Blightsteel Colossus with Dack Fayden. It was great :D

    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Vendilion Clique

    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Sylvan Library

    4 Punishing Fire
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Blessed Alliance
    1 Councils Judgement

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void

    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Daze

    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Windswept Heath
    1 Arid Mesa
    2 Tundra
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Savannah
    1 Plateau
    1 Plains
    1 Irrigated Farmland
    1 Lonely Sandbar
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Karakas
    4 Wasteland
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows

    SB
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Meddling Mage
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Wear//Tear
    1 Telemin Performance
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Firespout
    1 Dack Fayden

  7. #4047

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Digitend89 View Post
    For the REB at least I don't think it worth the two side board slots because we don't have anything to dig for it when we need to like brainstorm decks do if you're looking to use it as a counter.
    My reasoning on the REB is that it has a little more versatility in the late game as a top deck than thoughseize, but I see how thoughtseize would generally be better in the hard match-ups for the deck. I'm definitely keeping a close eye on that slot tho.

    How do you feel about drs in the sideboard vs. In the main/ I've been having trouble identifying the flex slots. As far as I can tell They're the DRS slot, Maze of ith and the maelstrompulse/abrupt decay 4 slot. Is that accurate/ are there any I missed?

  8. #4048

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Hi everyone,

    I'm the confused looking guy who top8'ed the MKM series with (classic) Aggro Loam this weekend. There is also one feature match on twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/139161769) covering my only loss in the swiss rounds (ironically against Eldrazi).

    I will share my thoughts about the 75 and give you a tournament report. I did not write down any notes so it will be rather short.


    Main Deck:

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Life from the Loam
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Sylvan Library
    3 Punishing Fire
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Windswept Heath
    4 Wasteland
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    2 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    1 badlands
    1 Taiga
    1 Savannah
    1 Barren Moor
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Karakas
    1 Cabal Pit
    1 Forest

    Sideboard:

    3 Leyline of the Void
    1 Garruk Relentless / Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Collective Brutality

    I think I played a pretty stock list (mixture of several MTGO results) this weekend. I will just point out the MD flex slots and the SB:

    Main:
    • No Deathrite Shaman: A lot of people play DS as a one off. In the opening hand he is a sweet card. Drawing him during the game with a Chalice on 1 is weird. Zenith for 1 on T1 (via Mox) is in my eyes either a "I don't have anything better to do" or "my opponent plays Reanimator" action. Often this play is bad anyways when you figure out your opponent is on Storm and you just wasted your Zenith to get Gaddock Teeg.
      Long story short: I felt like DS is not that impactful enough and decided to use this slot for Ghost Quarter.
    • Ghost Quarter: I felt like there will be a lot 4c good stuff lists consisting of a Leovold BUG core. As these decks do not play any basic lands Ghost Quarter essentially functions as Wasteland #5. Mana denial is really strong against all these greedy 4c lists.
    • Toxic Deluge: People have different tastes when it comes to the Deluge/Pulse/Vindicate slot. Inspired by MatsOle I started to test Vindicate. I never really liked it. In this new meta Elves, Stoneblade, Delver, DnT and other creature based decks seem to have a comeback and whenever I drew Vindicate I wished it was a Deluge.


    Sideboard:
    • Planeswalker: I only played one Planeswalker in my SB. I definitely would like to play Chandra, Torch of Defiance again but right now it seems like more Planeswalker in the SB make our better MUs better (i.e. 4c greed lists, Delver, grindy MUs in general) but do not help in worse MUs (i.e. fast combo, Burn, UR Delver). However, I'm not sure if Garruk is the right choice as a Planeswalker (never really saw him this tournament anyways). I'm sure this is also a matter of taste.
    • Collective Brutality: Burn/UR Delver and fast combo decks are not a good MU for Aggro Loam. We also struggle with Deathrite Shaman. In my eyes Collective Brutality is a flexible card which can be used as a simple removal spell to handle a problematic creature (DS/Delver/Bob/...), taking a spell (combo piece/burn spell/removal/...) or simply gain some life against burn decks. The beaty is that all these possibilities can be combined by just discarding land cards (or recursion cards like Loam/PFire) to maybe grow our KotR or fill the grave for Cabal Pit. Moreover you can play this as a discard spell over Chalice on 1.
    • Reclamation Sage: With the rise of DnT, Stoneblade and Sneak and Show (possibly also Aluren and Food Chain) decks I think we definitely want this card.
    • Thoughtseize: In the fear of combo decks I decided to play 2 Thoughtseize as well. Against real combo we also want a T1 disruption which can handle everything. Especially in case of a no-Mox hand a T1 play is very important.
    • Containment Priest: I just wanted to have some more hate against Sneak and Show decks.


    I think the rest of the SB is pretty stock as well.

    Tournament report:

    Round #1: Mirror (2-1)

    As it is the nature of Aggro Loam mirrors it was a grindfest. I won the 1st game with fast KotR.
    Game #2 I started with Leyline but my opponent was able to stick his Bob early and take over the game.
    Game #3 I again had a Leyline. After some grinding we both were in top deck mode. Besides my Leyline I had the better draws here so I was able to take over the game.


    Round #2: Burn (2-0)

    I think my opponent was pretty new to the format. He also seemed nervous. I won game #1 with a big KotR and Lili (for some reason he did not kill her, so he had to discard burn spells).
    Game#2 he started with Goblin Guide. I played Brutality with all modes on T1 (living the dream, discarding two lands) followed by a 4/4 KotR T2.

    Round #3: Elves (2-0)

    Game #1 won Chalice on 1 and a timely Deluge.
    Game #2 my opponent started with Leyline but the game was ruled by Gaddock Teeg, Lili and Ethersorn Canonist making it more or less impossible for my opponent to do anything. Yet, my clock was pretty slow (2/2 KotR) and I had to give him a lot of draws. In the end Lili ulti closed out the game.

    Round #4: Infect (2-1)

    Game #1 I was killed by a T3 Blighted Agent in berserk mode (did not find a removal).
    Game #2 I killed his Hierarch and wasted his Topical Island. As it turned out he kept a one lander...
    Game #3 I had a T1 Bob into several Decays so I could kill all the Infecters he played. Bob put me ahead from there.

    Round #5: Jund (2-1)

    Game #1 I had large KotR to grind the game out. Also Chalice on 1 did some little things like countering a cascaded DS.
    Game #2 I was overrun by big Goyfs.
    Game #3 my opponents mana base was soft and he could not handle my Wasteland/Loam hand. I finally won woth big KotRs.

    Round #6: UR Delver (2-0)

    We all know that this isn't the best MU. However, game #1 I resolved a Chalice on 1 and apparently got him totally on 1 cmc spells. After wasting one of his two Volcanic Islands the game was over.
    Game #2 was also won by a Chalice on 1. He did not find his Smashes and Bedlam Reveller gave him three 1 cmc spells while being smaller than my KotR.


    Round #7: Elves [Julian Knab] (2-0)

    I honestly don't know how I won game #1. He was on the play, I mulled to five keeping a desperate one lander with Mox, PFire, Grove, Lili and KotR and scryed a land on top. All my draws were perfectly sequenced according to this starting hand so that I was able to fight through 2 active DS and take over the game.
    Game #2 I had the nuts. T1 Ethersworn Canonist into T2 PFire with Grove into T3 Chalice on 1.

    Round #8: Stoneblade (1-1-1)

    Game #1 I lost to a TNN. He had 3 Noble Hierarchs not giving my Lili a chance to do something here. Did not find Deluge.
    Game #2 I was able to take the game over with Wastelands.
    Game #3 was a grindfest and at some point both of us had our hand full of removal spells but the battlefield was empty. Rec Sage killed his Batterskull which was very relevant.

    Round #9: Eldrazi (1-2)

    I did not play smooth in Game #1. As I did not know on what deck my opponent was I desiced to not play Mox on T1 but rater fake a BUG deck by just playing Catacombs. Apparently he knew that I was on Loam as he played his Chalice on 0 destroying my plan to play Lili on T2. He countered the Deluge I set up to get rid of 2 TNS and an Endless One. However, I should have known that he had Warping Wail as both TNS did not take my Deluge. With that in mind I shouldn't have wasted his Eye of Ugin but rather his mana producing land as this would have risen my chances that he does not have 2 mana to cast Warping Wail.
    Game #2 I won through a very grindy fight.
    Game #3 I kept a slow hand (Library, Zenith, Loam,Rec Sage) without Removal or Wastelands. As it turned out he had a super fast start. His board was weak but I was too slow to find answers. Should have mulliganed this hand for sure.

    Round #10: 4c Czech Pile [Thomas Mar] (2-0)

    Game #1 won a T1 Bob. He did not find an answer to Bob (concerning that he pondered really hard I think I was pretty lucky here) and soon a Chalice on 1 closed the game.
    Game #2 I was on the Wasteland/Loam plan. With finally 6 Dual Lands in his graveyard the game was over.

    Quarter Finals: BR Reanimator (1-2)

    My opponent had a better placement so he was on the play and started with a T1 Griselbrand as he knew I was on Loam and had no disruption.
    Game #2 I hade double Leyling into Ooze into Chalice on 1.
    Game #3 I did not find a Leyline. My mulligan to 5 has at least a Chalice on 1. Well, he put a T1 Gravetitan on the battlefield...


    I hope you found this useful. I felt very comfortable with the deck. However, I was lucky to never face any Sneak and Show decks in 10 rounds :D


    The blue version of this deck seems interesting. However, I don't like blue.deck :D

  9. #4049
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by schniggaz View Post
    Dropped at 5-2 because I had some medical issues and decided to go home. Deck was awesome. It would need someone who has more time than me to test the deck. A friend of mine played it as well and we had a lot of fun. Like Dazing your opponents FOW on your Chalice, hitting a Primeval Titan with Telemin Performance or stealing a Blightsteel Colossus with Dack Fayden. It was great :D
    Wow your list looks like a bigger pile than the original list. So what were your matchups and what caused you to change to a bant splashing red deck?

    @Stuhl

    Congratulations on your result! How did you end up liking the Collective Brutality? I know that it's something that was previously discussed in this but it never really caught on.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  10. #4050
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuhl View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I'm the confused looking guy who top8'ed the MKM series with (classic) Aggro Loam this weekend. There is also one feature match on twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/139161769) covering my only loss in the swiss rounds (ironically against Eldrazi).

    I will share my thoughts about the 75 and give you a tournament report. I did not write down any notes so it will be rather short.


    Main Deck:

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Life from the Loam
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Sylvan Library
    3 Punishing Fire
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Windswept Heath
    4 Wasteland
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    2 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    1 badlands
    1 Taiga
    1 Savannah
    1 Barren Moor
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Karakas
    1 Cabal Pit
    1 Forest

    Sideboard:

    3 Leyline of the Void
    1 Garruk Relentless / Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Collective Brutality

    I think I played a pretty stock list (mixture of several MTGO results) this weekend. I will just point out the MD flex slots and the SB:

    Main:
    • No Deathrite Shaman: A lot of people play DS as a one off. In the opening hand he is a sweet card. Drawing him during the game with a Chalice on 1 is weird. Zenith for 1 on T1 (via Mox) is in my eyes either a "I don't have anything better to do" or "my opponent plays Reanimator" action. Often this play is bad anyways when you figure out your opponent is on Storm and you just wasted your Zenith to get Gaddock Teeg.
      Long story short: I felt like DS is not that impactful enough and decided to use this slot for Ghost Quarter.
    • Ghost Quarter: I felt like there will be a lot 4c good stuff lists consisting of a Leovold BUG core. As these decks do not play any basic lands Ghost Quarter essentially functions as Wasteland #5. Mana denial is really strong against all these greedy 4c lists.
    • Toxic Deluge: People have different tastes when it comes to the Deluge/Pulse/Vindicate slot. Inspired by MatsOle I started to test Vindicate. I never really liked it. In this new meta Elves, Stoneblade, Delver, DnT and other creature based decks seem to have a comeback and whenever I drew Vindicate I wished it was a Deluge.


    Sideboard:
    • Planeswalker: I only played one Planeswalker in my SB. I definitely would like to play Chandra, Torch of Defiance again but right now it seems like more Planeswalker in the SB make our better MUs better (i.e. 4c greed lists, Delver, grindy MUs in general) but do not help in worse MUs (i.e. fast combo, Burn, UR Delver). However, I'm not sure if Garruk is the right choice as a Planeswalker (never really saw him this tournament anyways). I'm sure this is also a matter of taste.
    • Collective Brutality: Burn/UR Delver and fast combo decks are not a good MU for Aggro Loam. We also struggle with Deathrite Shaman. In my eyes Collective Brutality is a flexible card which can be used as a simple removal spell to handle a problematic creature (DS/Delver/Bob/...), taking a spell (combo piece/burn spell/removal/...) or simply gain some life against burn decks. The beaty is that all these possibilities can be combined by just discarding land cards (or recursion cards like Loam/PFire) to maybe grow our KotR or fill the grave for Cabal Pit. Moreover you can play this as a discard spell over Chalice on 1.
    • Reclamation Sage: With the rise of DnT, Stoneblade and Sneak and Show (possibly also Aluren and Food Chain) decks I think we definitely want this card.
    • Thoughtseize: In the fear of combo decks I decided to play 2 Thoughtseize as well. Against real combo we also want a T1 disruption which can handle everything. Especially in case of a no-Mox hand a T1 play is very important.
    • Containment Priest: I just wanted to have some more hate against Sneak and Show decks.


    I think the rest of the SB is pretty stock as well.

    Tournament report:

    Round #1: Mirror (2-1)

    As it is the nature of Aggro Loam mirrors it was a grindfest. I won the 1st game with fast KotR.
    Game #2 I started with Leyline but my opponent was able to stick his Bob early and take over the game.
    Game #3 I again had a Leyline. After some grinding we both were in top deck mode. Besides my Leyline I had the better draws here so I was able to take over the game.


    Round #2: Burn (2-0)

    I think my opponent was pretty new to the format. He also seemed nervous. I won game #1 with a big KotR and Lili (for some reason he did not kill her, so he had to discard burn spells).
    Game#2 he started with Goblin Guide. I played Brutality with all modes on T1 (living the dream, discarding two lands) followed by a 4/4 KotR T2.

    Round #3: Elves (2-0)

    Game #1 won Chalice on 1 and a timely Deluge.
    Game #2 my opponent started with Leyline but the game was ruled by Gaddock Teeg, Lili and Ethersorn Canonist making it more or less impossible for my opponent to do anything. Yet, my clock was pretty slow (2/2 KotR) and I had to give him a lot of draws. In the end Lili ulti closed out the game.

    Round #4: Infect (2-1)

    Game #1 I was killed by a T3 Blighted Agent in berserk mode (did not find a removal).
    Game #2 I killed his Hierarch and wasted his Topical Island. As it turned out he kept a one lander...
    Game #3 I had a T1 Bob into several Decays so I could kill all the Infecters he played. Bob put me ahead from there.

    Round #5: Jund (2-1)

    Game #1 I had large KotR to grind the game out. Also Chalice on 1 did some little things like countering a cascaded DS.
    Game #2 I was overrun by big Goyfs.
    Game #3 my opponents mana base was soft and he could not handle my Wasteland/Loam hand. I finally won woth big KotRs.

    Round #6: UR Delver (2-0)

    We all know that this isn't the best MU. However, game #1 I resolved a Chalice on 1 and apparently got him totally on 1 cmc spells. After wasting one of his two Volcanic Islands the game was over.
    Game #2 was also won by a Chalice on 1. He did not find his Smashes and Bedlam Reveller gave him three 1 cmc spells while being smaller than my KotR.


    Round #7: Elves [Julian Knab] (2-0)

    I honestly don't know how I won game #1. He was on the play, I mulled to five keeping a desperate one lander with Mox, PFire, Grove, Lili and KotR and scryed a land on top. All my draws were perfectly sequenced according to this starting hand so that I was able to fight through 2 active DS and take over the game.
    Game #2 I had the nuts. T1 Ethersworn Canonist into T2 PFire with Grove into T3 Chalice on 1.

    Round #8: Stoneblade (1-1-1)

    Game #1 I lost to a TNN. He had 3 Noble Hierarchs not giving my Lili a chance to do something here. Did not find Deluge.
    Game #2 I was able to take the game over with Wastelands.
    Game #3 was a grindfest and at some point both of us had our hand full of removal spells but the battlefield was empty. Rec Sage killed his Batterskull which was very relevant.

    Round #9: Eldrazi (1-2)

    I did not play smooth in Game #1. As I did not know on what deck my opponent was I desiced to not play Mox on T1 but rater fake a BUG deck by just playing Catacombs. Apparently he knew that I was on Loam as he played his Chalice on 0 destroying my plan to play Lili on T2. He countered the Deluge I set up to get rid of 2 TNS and an Endless One. However, I should have known that he had Warping Wail as both TNS did not take my Deluge. With that in mind I shouldn't have wasted his Eye of Ugin but rather his mana producing land as this would have risen my chances that he does not have 2 mana to cast Warping Wail.
    Game #2 I won through a very grindy fight.
    Game #3 I kept a slow hand (Library, Zenith, Loam,Rec Sage) without Removal or Wastelands. As it turned out he had a super fast start. His board was weak but I was too slow to find answers. Should have mulliganed this hand for sure.

    Round #10: 4c Czech Pile [Thomas Mar] (2-0)

    Game #1 won a T1 Bob. He did not find an answer to Bob (concerning that he pondered really hard I think I was pretty lucky here) and soon a Chalice on 1 closed the game.
    Game #2 I was on the Wasteland/Loam plan. With finally 6 Dual Lands in his graveyard the game was over.

    Quarter Finals: BR Reanimator (1-2)

    My opponent had a better placement so he was on the play and started with a T1 Griselbrand as he knew I was on Loam and had no disruption.
    Game #2 I hade double Leyling into Ooze into Chalice on 1.
    Game #3 I did not find a Leyline. My mulligan to 5 has at least a Chalice on 1. Well, he put a T1 Gravetitan on the battlefield...


    I hope you found this useful. I felt very comfortable with the deck. However, I was lucky to never face any Sneak and Show decks in 10 rounds :D


    The blue version of this deck seems interesting. However, I don't like blue.deck :D

    Congrats on your finish! I agree that Deathrite is sort of a trap, and that Garruk is kind of underwhelming. I like having a threat that can be cast off of basic Forest against Blood Moon decks and is resistant to removal, but sometimes I want more than Garruk offers.

    The only question I have is whether you missed a third Thoughtseize from the board. I really like Plow against Eldrazi and D&T, but that's about it. I'm currently on the full 4 Thoughtseizes, but will definitely be testing at least one Brutality when I get around to playing Loam again.

  11. #4051
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuhl View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I'm the confused looking guy who top8'ed the MKM series with (classic) Aggro Loam this weekend. There is also one feature match on twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/139161769) covering my only loss in the swiss rounds (ironically against Eldrazi).

    The blue version of this deck seems interesting. However, I don't like blue.deck :D
    Congratz!! And lolz..
    Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
    Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
    4c Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    How about: ramp into Deed, clear the board, and bash your opponent's head in.

  12. #4052

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Congrats Stuhl

    And heres an interesting list from the firefly monthly legacy. Maybe this is what 4c loam look like if we wanted blue and no red for Pfire.
    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15395&d=293679&f=LE

  13. #4053

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Congratulations on your result! How did you end up liking the Collective Brutality? I know that it's something that was previously discussed in this but it never really caught on.
    Thanks! Well, whenever I drew it I liked it. I didn't see it very often this weekend but my win against Burn in the 2nd game was definitely on the back of this card. Against Elves it is super strong, killing their dork and taking Decay/NO/Glimpse/Zenith. Against Delver/Deathrite Shaman decks I usually use it as a simple removal spell. You have to be careful concerning Daze. If you use it with discard modes and it gets dazed you are probably behind concerning ressources. Getting it forced is rather "ok" as both players lost effectively 2 cards.


    Congrats on your finish! I agree that Deathrite is sort of a trap, and that Garruk is kind of underwhelming. I like having a threat that can be cast off of basic Forest against Blood Moon decks and is resistant to removal, but sometimes I want more than Garruk offers.

    The only question I have is whether you missed a third Thoughtseize from the board. I really like Plow against Eldrazi and D&T, but that's about it. I'm currently on the full 4 Thoughtseizes, but will definitely be testing at least one Brutality when I get around to playing Loam again.
    Thanks! The irony is that Chandra can be played against Blood Moon in any case, even without basics. I think Chandra is the better Planeswalker on her own. She generates value and is a decent clock which has to be handled. However, Garruk is a long time staple in this deck so there must be a reason (that's what I thought when I decided to play him this weekend :D). I think I will try Chandra in his spot in my next MTGO leagues.

    I did not miss a 3rd Thoughtseize. However, I did not play against real combo decks (ANT, Belcher, ...) and just saw one Thoughtseize in my 11 matches against Eldrazi (taking Reality Smasher). I did not board them against Elves. So in the end I boarded my Thoughtseize only against Eldrazi and BR Reanimator (unfortunately I was stomped with T1 fatties here).

    In my eyes Collective Brutality somehow functions as mediocre 3rd Thoughtseize if you want so.

    And heres an interesting list from the firefly monthly legacy. Maybe this is what 4c loam look like if we wanted blue and no red for Pfire.
    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15395&d=293679&f=LE
    By all means, this is not Aggro Loam anymore. No Chalice, no Mox, no KotR. I would rather call ist BUG Depths or something.

    @schniggaz: I don't really understand the turn to blue cards. Is there any valid eason to do so? Also, playing blue without Brainstorm and FoW seems weird. Can FLusterstorm be played above Chalice on 1 such that only the main spell gets countered and the storm triggers resolve? If no, then this seems also weird.

    I think the meta game shift does not necessarily put us in the need of changing things fundamentally. As people pointed out in this thread some slots may change but the core is still a strong deck with a lot of play against the most decks.

  14. #4054
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Thanks! The irony is that Chandra can be played against Blood Moon in any case, even without basics. I think Chandra is the better Planeswalker on her own. She generates value and is a decent clock which has to be handled. However, Garruk is a long time staple in this deck so there must be a reason (that's what I thought when I decided to play him this weekend :D). I think I will try Chandra in his spot in my next MTGO leagues.

    I did not miss a 3rd Thoughtseize. However, I did not play against real combo decks (ANT, Belcher, ...) and just saw one Thoughtseize in my 11 matches against Eldrazi (taking Reality Smasher). I did not board them against Elves. So in the end I boarded my Thoughtseize only against Eldrazi and BR Reanimator (unfortunately I was stomped with T1 fatties here).

    In my eyes Collective Brutality somehow functions as mediocre 3rd Thoughtseize if you want so.
    [/QUOTE]

    Gratz Stuhl.

    One of the reasons why Garruk was the one that entered the list was that Chandra was still not around and Shardless was in the meta.
    I am currently trying a no planeswalker approach but deciding between the two should resume in, are you expecting more creatures(need of blockers) or just grind...

    I usually don't bring walkes against delver(except BUG where I bring Garruk). If it was Chandra I probably wouldn't bring it against BUG Delver.
    Against blade either one is good. Both would be better but they are already favourable matchups.
    Quote Originally Posted by MXG View Post
    Leovold because he is just gasoline. Look at the artwork. He knows it's over. He's offering your opponent the handshake.

  15. #4055
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Hi schniggaz! I like you loam with blue. Seems fun.
    Can you tell me why you dont plaing in it some Green Sun's Zenith and a single Edric, Spymaster of Trest for card advantage? It seems that without dark confidant it is hard to ahive that goal.
    And maybe a deck can use Intuition for p.fire or loam?

  16. #4056

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuhl View Post
    Thanks! Well, whenever I drew it I liked it. I didn't see it very often this weekend but my win against Burn in the 2nd game was definitely on the back of this card. Against Elves it is super strong, killing their dork and taking Decay/NO/Glimpse/Zenith. Against Delver/Deathrite Shaman decks I usually use it as a simple removal spell. You have to be careful concerning Daze. If you use it with discard modes and it gets dazed you are probably behind concerning ressources. Getting it forced is rather "ok" as both players lost effectively 2 cards.

    Thanks! The irony is that Chandra can be played against Blood Moon in any case, even without basics. I think Chandra is the better Planeswalker on her own. She generates value and is a decent clock which has to be handled. However, Garruk is a long time staple in this deck so there must be a reason (that's what I thought when I decided to play him this weekend :D). I think I will try Chandra in his spot in my next MTGO leagues.

    I did not miss a 3rd Thoughtseize. However, I did not play against real combo decks (ANT, Belcher, ...) and just saw one Thoughtseize in my 11 matches against Eldrazi (taking Reality Smasher). I did not board them against Elves. So in the end I boarded my Thoughtseize only against Eldrazi and BR Reanimator (unfortunately I was stomped with T1 fatties here).

    In my eyes Collective Brutality somehow functions as mediocre 3rd Thoughtseize if you want so.

    By all means, this is not Aggro Loam anymore. No Chalice, no Mox, no KotR. I would rather call ist BUG Depths or something.

    @schniggaz: I don't really understand the turn to blue cards. Is there any valid eason to do so? Also, playing blue without Brainstorm and FoW seems weird. Can FLusterstorm be played above Chalice on 1 such that only the main spell gets countered and the storm triggers resolve? If no, then this seems also weird.

    Congratulations on the top 8 Stuhl, I was wondering, Is there a reason you opted for two golgari charm over two toxic deluge? I'm playing 2 deluge in my list and was wondering if the other modes on charm are worth the trade off of being able to kill larger goons like gurmag angler.

    This is my list I'd love if you'd take a look and give me some suggestions. Congrats again and may you reveal lands to bob and draw threats.

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tour-...-4colour-loam/

  17. #4057
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Treacleson View Post
    Congratulations on the top 8 Stuhl, I was wondering, Is there a reason you opted for two golgari charm over two toxic deluge? I'm playing 2 deluge in my list and was wondering if the other modes on charm are worth the trade off of being able to kill larger goons like gurmag angler.

    This is my list I'd love if you'd take a look and give me some suggestions. Congrats again and may you reveal lands to bob and draw threats.

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tour-...-4colour-loam/
    The thing about charm is that is good against more decks where you need it than deluge.

    Charm is very good against storm to protect dorks/kill goblins(decay on the downswing but we still have to protect teeg from push)
    Show/Omnitell to kill the pesky enchantments, especially good on the Show->Canonist->destroy omni
    Good against go of turns from elves
    Better(IMO) against grixis due to being 2 cmc and instant speed
    Quote Originally Posted by MXG View Post
    Leovold because he is just gasoline. Look at the artwork. He knows it's over. He's offering your opponent the handshake.

  18. #4058

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilhas View Post
    The thing about charm is that is good against more decks where you need it than deluge.

    Charm is very good against storm to protect dorks/kill goblins(decay on the downswing but we still have to protect teeg from push)
    Show/Omnitell to kill the pesky enchantments, especially good on the Show->Canonist->destroy omni
    Good against go of turns from elves
    Better(IMO) against grixis due to being 2 cmc and instant speed
    Well I'm convinced. Most of those cases will matter more than once, and Kotr can tango with gurmag angler anyway. Thanks for the advice!

  19. #4059

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Treacleson View Post
    Well I'm convinced. Most of those cases will matter more than once, and Kotr can tango with gurmag angler anyway. Thanks for the advice!
    I play 1 of each in SB, charm is definitely a versatile card. The regenerate mode rarely comes up, but if it does it can be a huge momentum swing. Blocking a fatty with a big knight but saving it from dying as the main example.

  20. #4060

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Treacleson View Post
    Congratulations on the top 8 Stuhl, I was wondering, Is there a reason you opted for two golgari charm over two toxic deluge? I'm playing 2 deluge in my list and was wondering if the other modes on charm are worth the trade off of being able to kill larger goons like gurmag angler.

    This is my list I'd love if you'd take a look and give me some suggestions. Congrats again and may you reveal lands to bob and draw threats.

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tour-...-4colour-loam/
    Well, as we do not have real lifegain and play Bobs I somehow never wanted two Deluges. Of course, your chances to hit one are bigger but if you draw both you often can only play one. Besides that Golgari Charm hits our True Name Nemesis. In most scenarios Charm and Deluge have the same effect. Sometimes it is annoying that Charm does not hit a Shaman. But I think it is definitely not wrong to play a 1/1 Charm/Deluge split.

    The regenerate mode of Charm is very fringe. I think I used it maybe 1 or 2 times since I play this deck. But it may be a bigger thing if people start to play other UW control decks featuring maybe Supreme Verdict (don't know if this will happen, but who knows).

    The destroy enchantment mode is essential and one reason to play this card over 2nd Deluge in my eyes. I feel like there is a rise in Aluren/Food Chain decks and most importantly Sneak and Show. Destroying an enchantment in the right moment can safe you here. And don't forget Blood Moon which for sure will come down in Sneak and Show matches.

    If you face an Angler or large Goyf you will most likely prefer Swords/Decay or Lili to get rid of them. In my experience big threats are rather solo on the battlefield. So, if you want to 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 with Deluge one usually prefers to wait for the opponent to slam more threats. I however wouldn't like to do that with a 5/6 Goyf beating me every round.


    Well, I'm not sure if Grim Flayer can really replace Sylvan Library. He can be fetched by Zenith, that's nice. But Library gives you so much more advantages in my eyes. Despite that Library doesn't die to Fatal Push and Bolts. With my first activation of Library I often draw all cards which puts me far ahead in terms of ressources.

    I don't really see the advantage of Faerie Macabre over Leyline of the Void. Ok, if you draw Faerie it's better, however, a good reanimator player can play around a singleton exile effect. Also, your Dredge and Lands MU will be far more difficult. I'd rather play Surgical Extraction here.

    I personally don't like Thalia. She is only good against Storm decks. Ethersworn Canonist as more applications than Thalia in the SB. Besides that we play very much non-creature spells ourself often making Thalia awkward.

    I'd rather play a Choke if I wanted more hate against blueish decks (which honestly isn't necessary). Probably a Planeswalker or 3rd Sword/Thoughtseize fits better in that spot.

    But overall your list seems fine (I mean, if you make -1 Flayer, +1 Library you end up with my list from above :D).

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