[Deck] Aggro Loam

[apocolyps6]

The deck is cosmetically similar to Lands, but it plays much closer to Jund or Maverick.

A couple years ago people would have disagreed that they are even similar.

The Loam-Lands comparison is a bit like saying a Swiss Army knife is just a worse screwdriver.

[Claymore]

http://itsjulian.com/too-much-inform...ies-frankfurt/

From here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...yed-at-MKM-Fra

Really good breakdown, and shows how 4c loam is positioned against various decks in the meta. It's one tournament, but still a good amount of data for the 13 players on this deck in a 436 person event.

[juzamjimjams]

The deck is cosmetically similar to Lands, but it plays much closer to Jund or Maverick.

A couple years ago people would have disagreed that they are even similar.

The Loam-Lands comparison is a bit like saying a Swiss Army knife is just a worse screwdriver.

To expand on these remarks a little, I think it's interesting to consider the perspective of the player looking at the deck.
A Lands player, or an 'older' (for lack of a better term) legacy player can identify the cosmetic similarities to lands, and may view the strategy as diluted.
Jund and Maverick players may see the similarities to their own deck alongside the anti-blue hate pieces, and therefore may be more attracted to the strategy over Lands players.

I've noticed a trend that the major proponents of Loam tend to be either players with quite a good amount of experience with it, or players that play the deck pretty much exclusively. It seems that the flexibility of the strategy isn't an aspect that is largely appreciated, and I am not sure if Matthias is a big legacy player or not - but I don't believe this is a huge failing on his part. Don't get me wrong, SCG commentary of legacy when it's not Ceddy P and P sully leaves much to be desired, but when a deck isn't fully appreciated by even the community of it's own format, it's bound to be misrepresented in coverage.

[Claymore]

Players in my shop (and others I've run into) seem to have trouble telling the difference between Turbo Depths, RG Lands, and Jund Depths. Some even roll 4c Loam into the 'Lands' archetype, so fairly easy to see that point. Now it seems all Lands decks play both Sylvan Scrying, Entomb, and Life from the Loam.

But, for a commentator, he should know the difference between at least RG Lands and 4C Loam.

[CptHaddock]

But, for a commentator, he should know the difference between at least RG Lands and 4C Loam.

I think you mean Punishing Abzan.

[deakmana]

I think you mean Punishing Abzan.

#triggered

[Snowfire]

Since Miracles is gone, is Gaddock Teeg still worth it in the main board only for the Storm/Belcher matchup? Or are there an other matchups where he shines?

[Barachai]

Since Miracles is gone, is Gaddock Teeg still worth it in the main board only for the Storm/Belcher matchup? Or are there an other matchups where he shines?

I've won more than one game where storm duresses me and I happened to have the teeg in hand. Also very useful vs moon stompy, most of their scary things cost 4.

[Claymore]

Sneak Attack, Natural Order, GSZ, Jace (Czech midrange), Invigorate. I think he's okay still. Not amazing though.

What could he be replaced by? Scavenging Ooze or a firm DRS slot would be my first two options. Tarmogoyf could be considered as an additional beater.

[Seraphix]

Jeff Hoogland streaming some Wish Loam today:

[Claymore]

Looks pretty decent. This is based on his old Devastating Dreams lists that kickstarted this archetype.

Burning Wish does seem nice against the meta that packs a ton of Surgicals now.

[rabidw0lf]

Wow that's quite the flashback.. needs some seismic assaults for complete nostalgia

Isn't Burning Wish a little slow in the current meta?

[juzamjimjams]

Isn't Burning Wish a little slow in the current meta?

Resilience to Surgical Extraction is definitely cool, but I've always thought that one of the strengths of the deck is that it doesn't completely fold to these effects (KOTR is definitely backbreaking but that isn't usually feasible). IMO Burning Wish just adds an extra hoop to jump through to try to achieve a flexibility the deck doesn't really need anymore, density and diversity of threats is both resilient and doesn't rely on resolving a 2 mana spell that doesn't impact the game state - you're also diluting the SB a bunch by including wish cards.

[apocolyps6]

Yeah, IMO Burning Wish is not really where you wanna be. I might have been the last person to abandon the card, but we simply have better things to be doing.

Think of it as a virtual 4drop. The deck can't afford any 4drops now, so I don't see it changing any time soon.

TBH towards the end most of what I was doing with the wishes was baiting counterspells.

That list has actually devolved since he last played it (back to monestary, goyf, etc)

If people are looking for more of a linear "answers deck" that might actually be up their ally tho

[Stuhl]

Since Miracles is gone, is Gaddock Teeg still worth it in the main board only for the Storm/Belcher matchup? Or are there an other matchups where he shines?

Well, recent results show, that Miracles isn't gone. Chalice on 1 + Gaddock Teeg is hard lock for the new Miracles lists:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetyp...ur-37971#paper

[btm10]

I've been toying around with a new list that looks a lot more like apocalyps6's than Kronberger's. It's more proactive and eschews Liliana and Bob for more on-board power and consistency. I'm pretty happy so far as it seems that my combo and Delver matchups haven't gotten worse. Might this actually be reasonable?

4 Mox Diamond
3 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Swamp (this might be better as a creature-land or Plains)
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 City of Traitors
1 Maze of Ith
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Cabal Pit (better as Barbarian Ring?)
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dark Depths

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
2 Life from the Loam
2 Toxic Deluge (maybe 1/1 with Fiery Justice, but killing TNN seems better than going 1-for-1 with Angler, Smasher, and Tombstalker)
1 Crucible of Worlds

4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Thoughtseize
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Kjeldoran Outpost

The SB Outpost might be better as a Garruk, but with the more controlling decks moving toward the actual card Counterspell I like 4 drops a lot less than an endless stream of uncounterable tokens. I could also see cutting the MD Crucible and Depths for some combination of a fourth GSZ, third Tireless Tracker, Thalia, and Tarmogoyf. Stage has been good enough on its own so far that Depths doesn't seem necessary (but is mostly free with Stage).

[Sergi]

Now that miracles is gone, we can move to the original Jund colors (better manabase),

I tried the olds lists with Seimic Assault + the new Shadow of the grave and is game ending (also as Jeff used, devastating dreams for clearing tokens).

Instead of punishing fires: barbarian ring + loam could be enough and avoid color protections. Turning the deck more red, makes the deck less vulnerable to blood moons, in fact helps casting seismic assaults.

[rabidw0lf]

Now that miracles is gone, we can move to the original Jund colors (better manabase),

I tried the olds lists with Seimic Assault + the new Shadow of the grave and is game ending (also as Jeff used, devastating dreams for clearing tokens).

Instead of punishing fires: barbarian ring + loam could be enough and avoid color protections. Turning the deck more red, makes the deck less vulnerable to blood moons, in fact helps casting seismic assaults.

Miracles is not gone. I just played against the Portent Miracles. Terminus is still a real threat. Lili was a house here.

Id love to play Seismic again except RRR is asking alot to go with BB and GB and dies to Decay which is still in basically every deck that isn't combo.

[juzamjimjams]

Now that miracles is gone, we can move to the original Jund colors (better manabase),

I tried the olds lists with Seimic Assault + the new Shadow of the grave and is game ending (also as Jeff used, devastating dreams for clearing tokens).

Instead of punishing fires: barbarian ring + loam could be enough and avoid color protections. Turning the deck more red, makes the deck less vulnerable to blood moons, in fact helps casting seismic assaults.

As stated before, Miracles is not gone. Regardless of that however, I can't imagine dropping Knight of the Reliquary to be defensible.

[CptHaddock]

Now that miracles is gone, we can move to the original Jund colors (better manabase),

I tried the olds lists with Seimic Assault + the new Shadow of the grave and is game ending (also as Jeff used, devastating dreams for clearing tokens).

Instead of punishing fires: barbarian ring + loam could be enough and avoid color protections. Turning the deck more red, makes the deck less vulnerable to blood moons, in fact helps casting seismic assaults.

Imo the only thing that you get by moving back to the original Jund colors is a slightly more stable manabase and slightly improved fair matchups. Losing the hatebears is a BIG deal, it's no longer 2012 and almost every popular combo deck has gotten a big boost along the way. I guess you're kind of priced into running more discard or maybe a playset of thorns however there is nothing lost from trying.

Jeff's list looks really threat light...