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Thread: [Deck] Aggro Loam

  1. #4361

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by jsn27 View Post
    Hi guys. Is there a discord channel for 4c Loam?
    As far as I am aware the closest thing there is to that is the facebook page, which you can find here :

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1598499410162313/
    I play Loams sometimes.

  2. #4362
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by juzamjimjams View Post
    As @Stuhl says, Chalice is still definitely fantastic.

    Jamming into easily played around countermagic (such as daze) is not really the approach I'd be taking, as it's just as much of a lock piece turns 2, 3 and 4; once you've taken control of the board with Wastelands or removal.
    Mana base is first and foremost how to beat delver and soft counter magic in general. If you play around daze they usually only have force and spell pierce.

    I actually don't mind baiting force with Chalice if I have a great follow up i.e. Goyf/library/knight and especially if I have the excavator a son that card is bonkers.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  3. #4363

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I agree to all the Chalice points above. In general if I'm not under pressure (no T1 Delver, Shaman, ...) I give myself time and may play around a potential Daze (of course under the assumption that I know my opp is on a Delver variant). Under pressure I'm more likely to just hit it if there is no better option.

    Against Decay decks (BUG, 4c) I usually board Chalice out.
    Against pure Grixis I keep them on the play an board 2-4 out on the draw. On the draw I want fast answers as we are in the reactive role.
    Always try to think in opening hands without Mox. Mox makes our gameplan easy and people tend to think "no Mox = bad hand". Try to think in "Mox = superior hand" and "no Mox = still a good hand"

    As many pro players say: There is no skill in winning easy games with good hands. Skill is to take over games with bad opening hands or when you are behind by making the best play to the right time. That's also the part of the game where experience plays the most important role. With Mox in the opening hand any random magic player can just win a game of Legacy with this deck :D
    Especially in a deck without cards like Brainstorm experience is a very important ressource. That's why you should just play, play and play all day long ;) and don't change your lists too often (in a greater scale). It slows your learning process as you will face too many different play situations and are too strongly focused on the negative thought "I lost, my deck is probably just bad". Trust your list and try to find the mistakes in your play. In most moments when I lose I still see a small passage through which I could have won.

    Anyways I play 2 Chokes in my sideboard these days and they are just taking down all these blue piles. It's a good card right now.
    Just swap them with your Containment Priests. It seems like nobody plays Show&Tell decks anymore... At least I dodged it for like 20+ games in a row on MTGO.



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  4. #4364

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Mana base is first and foremost how to beat delver and soft counter magic in general. If you play around daze they usually only have force and spell pierce.

    I actually don't mind baiting force with Chalice if I have a great follow up i.e. Goyf/library/knight and especially if I have the excavator a son that card is bonkers.
    You don't think this is a bit of an oversimplification? The Wasteland lock is obviously at a premium here, but they're perfectly capable of killing you with a 3/2 flyer if you only present land destruction. All of our locks are relevant against Delver, so I think it's definitely a skill to know when to let go of the Life from the Loam subgame and pick up the Punishing Fire subgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuhl View Post
    Anyways I play 2 Chokes in my sideboard these days and they are just taking down all these blue piles. It's a good card right now.
    Just swap them with your Containment Priests. It seems like nobody plays Show&Tell decks anymore... At least I dodged it for like 20+ games in a row on MTGO.
    I'm also currently on two Chokes, though I'm hesitant to let go of Containment Priest (at least in paper).
    I play Loams sometimes.

  5. #4365
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by juzamjimjams View Post
    You don't think this is a bit of an oversimplification? The Wasteland lock is obviously at a premium here, but they're perfectly capable of killing you with a 3/2 flyer if you only present land destruction. All of our locks are relevant against Delver, so I think it's definitely a skill to know when to let go of the Life from the Loam subgame and pick up the Punishing Fire subgame.



    I'm also currently on two Chokes, though I'm hesitant to let go of Containment Priest (at least in paper).
    Sorry, I mean establishing our mana base is how I prefer to beat delver and soft counter magic.

    The only games I lose to delver are games where I am land lite and they get the wasteland+other things. Quad punishing fire, barbarian ring, judgement, maze of ith all keep the one delver ftw plan from existing.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  6. #4366

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Sorry, I mean establishing our mana base is how I prefer to beat delver and soft counter magic.

    The only games I lose to delver are games where I am land lite and they get the wasteland+other things. Quad punishing fire, barbarian ring, judgement, maze of ith all keep the one delver ftw plan from existing.
    OH sure, I misunderstood. I agree with this.
    I play Loams sometimes.

  7. #4367
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by juzamjimjams View Post
    OH sure, I misunderstood. I agree with this.
    How would you feel about mainboard Blessed Alliance over Counsels Judgement? I love Judgement in slower matchups but Alliance could be just as useful against TNN while having more utility overall.

    Also:

    Would you consider taking out goyf for more scooze/Pridemage?

    Going to 3 Pridemage, 3 Scooze could be an option worth exploring. Scooze is still a beast against most of the format.
    Last edited by lavafrogg; 09-07-2017 at 02:41 AM.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  8. #4368

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    How would you feel about mainboard Blessed Alliance over Counsels Judgement? I love Judgement in slower matchups but Alliance could be just as useful against TNN while having more utility overall.

    Also:

    Would you consider taking out goyf for more scooze/Pridemage?

    Going to 3 Pridemage, 3 Scooze could be an option worth exploring. Scooze is still a beast against most of the format.
    Frankly, I can't ever imagine wanting a second Scooze let alone a third. Cards good, but it's pretty resource intensive and though it has enough application to warrant a slot; it's been a while since It's done anything super impressive for me.
    I could probably imagine a metagame that calls for three Pridemages, but at this stage I can't think of anything I genuinely want to cut to fiddle with something I'm already pretty content with.

    Blessed Alliance is something I am yet to try, I just haven't got around to it.

    My current 'test' card is Abrade, playing a 3/1 split with Pfire, so far it's felt quite good.
    I play Loams sometimes.

  9. #4369
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Won 2-0 against burn tonight in my league. Chalice + Goyf both games made quick work of the red meanace. I will never doubt the goyf slot again but am looking at a DRS for utility although I don't AP want to have to main a black source...
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  10. #4370

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    In this week I'm back to agrro loam.
    I tested 3 version : naya, abzan, classic 4C.
    In my opinion:
    Abzan with Abrupt Decay, Liliana, Tarmogoyf, Council's, Judgment and Volrath' Stronghold in SB : Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Nissa, Vital Force
    Naya with Punishing Fire,Tarmogoyf,Tireless Tracker, Titania, Council's Judgment, Barbarian Ring in SB : Krosan Grip, Pyroblast, Ajani Vengeant and Chandra, Flamecaller
    4C, most traditional list with Council's Judgment, Maelstrom Pulse, Toxic Deluge and random planeswalker in SB.
    I drop Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for Horizon Canopy, I afraid this change for playing Liliana.
    In all version I testing Ramunap Excavator, Qasali Pridemage and Horizon Canopy.
    Abzan version is worst one, boring and feel like playing worse kind of Junk, this version don't need Chalice's and Gaddock. Planeswalkers is nice but no necessary.
    Naya version in better kind of Zoo, don't loses life from Dark Confidant and draws lots of cards from Tracker and can play big creatures like Titania from Maverick. Ajani and Chandra do a lot. Ban SDT is the key to play this deck.
    But this two versions had big problem with Rest in Peace, gravehate do a lot, sometimes I have to choose between kill Batterskull, Blood Moon or Rest in Peace. Very grindy games, but nices.
    4C version splash only red for Punishing Fire, in reality this is 3,5 color deck but manabase is still very nasty. Wastelands party can easily kill this deck.
    I want to play this deck in 2 big tournament in my city, my actual meta is mostly all kind of Leovold and TNN decks in all version and some kind random combo like reanimator and storm.
    I wanted to play Maverick but psychical games is too long, and I don't want wasting my time. Any solutions?

  11. #4371
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I am 4-1 in an 8 week league with Naya but it really depends on the meta and what you expect to face.

    If you couldn't play knight of the Reliquary, what would you replace him with? What changes would you make?
    Last edited by lavafrogg; 09-27-2017 at 01:14 AM.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  12. #4372

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    "If you couldn't play knight of the Reliquary, what would you replace him with? What changes would you make? "
    I'm very rarely can't play KotR, only in some situations like "Surgical Extraction in your KotR".
    In naya version I choose Tireless Tracker or meaby in more mavericks naya build some others creature from mavericks zeniths list or SFM under chalices protection.

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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    I am 4-1 in an 8 week league with Naya but it really depends on the meta and what you expect to face.

    If you couldn't play knight of the Reliquary, what would you replace him with? What changes would you make?
    Her*

    I think that I would find some split between utility creatures, goyf (maybe terravore), or some additional hatebears.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  14. #4374

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    TBH I'd play a different deck if Knight was banned or w.e. If I'm forced to give a real answer, my 75 would change drastically.. my manabase is currently a pile of 1-ofs and that no longer makes sense when not playing Knight. Then I'd have to take a hard look at which matchups I just ruined and find a way to fix them.

  15. #4375
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by apocolyps6 View Post
    TBH I'd play a different deck if Knight was banned or w.e. If I'm forced to give a real answer, my 75 would change drastically.. my manabase is currently a pile of 1-ofs and that no longer makes sense when not playing Knight. Then I'd have to take a hard look at which matchups I just ruined and find a way to fix them.
    Well.... that's the question!
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  16. #4376

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I guess some mix of Goyfs, Renegade Ralliers and Tireless Trackers? I consider KOTR as one of the two major reasons to play the deck (along with Chalice), so I don't really think there's a meaningful answer to this.
    I play Loams sometimes.

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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    This deck is at its heart a Jund variant that splashes white for KotR. If you don't play KotR, you don't play white, you don't play GSZ, and now you're just...Jund.

  18. #4378
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    This deck is at its heart a Jund variant that splashes white for KotR. If you don't play KotR, you don't play white, you don't play GSZ, and now you're just...Jund.
    Where you see a version of Jund, I see a more controlling version of Punishing Maverick that is not as bad against sweepers and can play its hatebears on turn 1.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  19. #4379
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Where you see a version of Jund, I see a more controlling version of Punishing Maverick that is not as bad against sweepers and can play its hatebears on turn 1.
    This deck play a grindy game where it ekes out out card advantage through Dark Confidant, Lili, Fire/Grove, Sylvan Library, Decay.

    It doesn't (usually) play the Jund 1 drops because of Chalice. Without Knight, you are left with Chalice Jund, which is probably worse than regular Jund.

  20. #4380
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    This deck play a grindy game where it ekes out out card advantage through Dark Confidant, Lili, Fire/Grove, Sylvan Library, Decay.

    It doesn't (usually) play the Jund 1 drops because of Chalice. Without Knight, you are left with Chalice Jund, which is probably worse than regular Jund.
    I understand what you are saying.

    What I am saying, and the source of my question, is that I am playing this deck as a more grindy version of Maverick and currently I am not playing black, which I have mentioned several times.

    So the actual question was: what would you do if you took out Knight? The mana base and creature selection would obviously change, but how would you do it?
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

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