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Thread: [Deck] Aggro Loam

  1. #4421

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I'm still on my quest to build a decent junk loam deck.

    I've based my latest version on a piece of advice that Lavafrogg gave me about replacing Punishing Fire with a 4th LOTV. Instead of LOTV, I opted for a couple of Liliana, the Last Hope to provide that inevitability. I also thought that Hobart's discussion on Grim Flayer was interesting so I've been play testing with it instead of Dark Confidant and I really like the card. I like the interaction between it and Liliana, the Last Hope second ability. These two cards are like peanut butter and jelly. I also like how it can set up a huge Knight of the Reliquary as early as turn 2 if you have a Mox Diamond in your opening hand as well.

    Here is my latest version:

    Creatures:12
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    4 Grim Flayer
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    1 Ramunap Excavator

    Spells:23
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Life from the Loam
    2 Sylvan Library
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Toxic Deluge

    Lands:25
    1 Barren Moor
    2 Bayou
    1 Cabal Pit
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Forest
    1 Karakas
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Savannah
    2 Scrubland
    1 Swamp
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland
    4 Windswept Heath

    I may just be overthinking this whole thing. Junk Loam shows up often on Mtgtop8 running Collective Brutality in place of Punishing Fire. Maybe Collective Brutality is strong enough that you don't need a "reusable" card like Liliana, the Last Hope?

  2. #4422

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    There are two things red adds to this deck w/ Punishing Fire: early creature removal and inevitability.

    If I were cutting red, I'd want to address both of those, and swapping in some Lilianas and an extra Library doesn't do that.

    Since you've got a more stable land-base now without needing to support Groves, Badlands, and Taiga, you could probably comfortably run the Depths combo. That, plus Excavator and Loam, gives you the inevitability you're missing without the Punishing Fires.

    I'm not really sure how to address the missing extra removal part though. A 4th decay is definitely something you should be considering. A Horizon Canopy as well.

    I dunno - it's tough to see junk lists like this and not just look to Deathrite, StP, StM, and Batterskull/Jitte as being better options than trying to stick to a Loam shell.

  3. #4423

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    mini tourney report to best of my recollection.

    3-3 at eternal winter in oslo.

    fairly standard build with dd combo. wanted to run a liliana, the last hope and a horizon canopy, but i couldnt find them in time.

    r1 vs rg lands 2-0
    g1 raced marit lage with a pair of knights and a goyf
    g2 chalice and knight do their thing

    r2 vs lands with 4 gq 0-2
    g1 get gq locked out of the game
    g2 lose to fast token

    r3 vs burn 0-2
    g1 lost to double searing blaze on knight that would have stabilized
    g2 chalice gets smashed and lost to pop
    definitely could have made better choices that match.

    r4 vs br reanimator 2-0
    g1 chalice locks out his hand
    g2 t1 inkwell, i manage to race with t1 knight off double mox into lage

    r5 vs grixis delver 2-1
    g1 tnn goes the distance
    g2 timely toxic deluge clears a victory path
    g3 t1 chalice gets forced, wasteland lock finishes the rest

    r6 vs punishing jund 1-2
    g1 after trading wastelands for a bit, i think i got bob and knight/goyf online
    g2 chalice doesnt do much and i lose to bob and chandra
    g3 i draw no lands, chalice doenst do much and i lose to chandra ult. 7 dmg punishing fires are pretty good.

    pretty sure im approaching that MU incorrectly.

    in conclusion, good games, nice people, bad keeps and surely some bad decisions.

  4. #4424

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Went to Gaming for Gains V in CT

    about 60 people, heard 59 with someone coming in late.

    My standard list

    4xKnight of the Reliquary
    4xDark Confidant
    1xQasali Pridemage
    1xScavenging Ooze
    1xRamunap Excavator (Surprise of tourney for myself)
    1xGaddock Teeg

    3xPunishing Fire
    3xLilliana of the Veil
    2xGreen Sun Zenith
    2xLife from the Loam
    4xChalice of the Void
    1xSylvan Library
    3xAbrupt Decay
    4xMox Diamond

    4xVerdant Catacombs
    4xWasteland
    2xScrubland
    2xBayou
    1xTaiga
    1xSavana
    1xUrborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1xDryad Arbor
    2xGrove of the Burnwillows
    1xForest
    2xTranquil Thicket
    1xMaze of Ith
    1xHorizon Canopy
    1xDark Depths
    1xThespian Stage
    1xKarakas

    SB
    3xLeyline of the Void
    1xSlaughter Games
    2xThalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2xChoke
    1xKrosan Grip
    1xReclamation Sage
    1xZuran Orb
    1xEthersworn Canonist
    1xEngineered Plague
    1xGolgari Charm
    1xToxic Deluge

    The deck is a masterpiece, before the event on a weekly, we made a change of -1 loam +1 Ramunap Excavator. This little guy was stupid good, you played him on turn 3 and just waste lock them out or fetch land card advantage.

    The Sideboard was for a heavy combo meta (reanimator/storm) there also usually is a decent amount of burn, so zuran orb for there.

    So with that on to the rounds

    R1-Big Eldrazi piloted by RockLee

    First round was difficult opponent. Rocklee is a great player, and the Godfather of 12 post. His deck has morphed over the years, but the end result usually is the same.

    G1-I get wasteland with loam. Knight comes in and finishes the game.
    SB -4 Chalice +2 Thalia, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Reclamation Sage. - i needed to shut down his rocks, if he cant get off the ground, I win

    G2-I dont get wasteland, but sage and an abrupt decay keep him down, i drop a Thalia, he plays a Warping Wale, makes a guy, plays Ugin for 9 mana, and that was game.
    SB- -1 Punishing Fire +1 Slaughter Games

    G3- Open on Turn 2 Knight (mox), turn 3 was double wasteland (hand + Knight), then i played Excavator and he never got going

    1-0

    R2-U/W control
    G1 - he played allot of basics (did waste him once), played Rest in Piece, and on turn 5 he played helm of Obedience and Helmed me out.
    SB -2 loams, -2 punishing fires, -2 wasteland -1 Maze of Ith + 2xchoke, +2xThalia, 1xKrosan Grip, +1xReclamation Sage +1x Golgari Charm

    G2 - Got fast Chalice on 1, he had Councils Judgment, he played new Gidian (cant lose if in play) and my Quasi Pridemage did work, then a knight came.

    G3 - RIP came into play, he played a monetary mentor, Thalia kept him in check, then i drew abrupt decay, got through his tokens, killed his RIP, and Liliana made sure it was clear for team to take it home

    2-0

    R3-Elves

    G1-I had punishing fire combo going, but he got just enough mana to turn 4 natural order for Ruric Thar, the Unbowed. That was game.
    SB- -1 Scavenging ooze, -2 life from the Loam, -1 Qasali Pridemage, -1 Wasteland +1 Engineered Plague, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Golgari Charm, +2 Thalia,

    G2-he mulliganed to 6, Toxic Deluge took the first wave, punishing fire finished off the rest. (he drew 6 lands this game)

    G3-he mulliganed again, Bob on turn 1 found Toxic Deluge on 3, Punishing fire kept him in check, i put down pressure, and then he natural ordered for defensive hoof, i go all in and punishing fire him FTW. (he ended up telling me he drew 18 lands in three games this match)

    3-0

    R4-New Miracles-first time i played matchup

    G1-game went 30+ minutes, he grinded me out with jace, snapcaster, and draw, i bricked like 6 land drops in a row including some where jace did not know what was on top.
    SB -2 Life from the Loam, -2 punishing Fire, -2 wasteland, +2 Thalia, +2 Choke, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Slaughter Games

    G2-went to turns and he took this match 1-0 (miracles is not dead, but is not the beast it used to be)

    3-1

    R5- Reanimator

    G1-He mulls to 6, plays turn 2 show and tell, plays elesh norn. I play a Knight into karakas, and I take the game
    SB--2 punishing fires, -2 life from the loam, -1 waste land, +3 Leyline of the void, +2 Thalia

    G2- He mulls to 6, i get Leyline, and i play a chalice for 0, he never draws 2nd land

    at this point i'm 4-1

    R6 draw into top 8
    Risky draw into top 8 (uneven players with points) ended up 7th

    Top 8
    Quarters -Lands
    G1-we get into a grindy game, i hold out till i zeneth for knight, who wins me game
    SB -1 teeg, -2 punishing fire, -1 liliana of the veil, +3 Leyline, +1 reclamation Sage

    G2-i have leyline, he turn 4's a 20/20

    G3- i have Bob on 1, but chalice is too late, and he turn 4's a 20/20

    after the match, he told me he went into combo mode, i was ready for the grind

    Overall i placed 7th took home a foil Tidespout Tyrant, and a custom playmat that is unique

    The deck is amazing, and credit for this version goes to my friend Bryan Zoll

    Through the whole event, i feared no deck, and never felt i could not win.

    We raised allot of food, and i had a blast, i hope the next event is even better.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/498566220480884/

  5. #4425

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quick question, on the play against an unknown opponent.

    Starting 7: Mox, Grove, Karakas, knight, Decay, GSZ, Punishing Fire.

    How would you start ?
    Mox + land (which one)
    only grove go or
    grove + GSZ for arbor.

    Or something else ? Greetings.

    Imo:
    Mox + land can fire backwards either way. Either playing against a creature deck or against reanimator/Show and Tell.
    Grove go maybe, but then you waste a lot of time.
    with Grove + GSZ you are semi wasting a GSZ. This results in a turn 2 knight. Probably the best choice ?

  6. #4426

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Probably Grove + GSZ. Pretty benign opening, doesn't open you up to any nuts removal or get blown out by Force, if either land is blown up you still have Karakas or Mox to turn on removal turn 2. Going immediately for Knight turn 2 might be pushing it (Daze) but it's available.

    Mox + Land, pass, doesn't give you anything to do unless you really want to be able to kill a DRS turn 1, and slows down your turn 2 play.

    If you have DRS in the deck, would consider saving GSZ for that on T2 or open with Grove + Mox + GSZ (DRS) T1, but I don't think DRS is that broken to blow your hand on.

    Land, Pass, makes you look like a shitty Lands opening and opens you up to get blown out by Wasteland. You'd have Mox (Karakas), which is nothing and really hinges on resolving GSZ (Dryad), which is a terrible turn 2 play even in the face of a blank board. Your removal would be slown down considerably.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

  7. #4427

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Probably Grove + GSZ. Pretty benign opening, doesn't open you up to any nuts removal or get blown out by Force, if either land is blown up you still have Karakas or Mox to turn on removal turn 2. Going immediately for Knight turn 2 might be pushing it (Daze) but it's available.

    .
    Thats what i thought, but you will have to draw some other action if your knight gets forced/destroyed turn 2/3.. Otherwise you arenīt doing much with this hand.

  8. #4428

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Your Knight is definitely getting countered or dying, but I see the hand as having answers in AD and Fires to a majority of follow up plays except for ANT.

    With the field largely being Delver, I think that's an okay place to be in, unless your Grove is Wasted, then they play Underground (DRS) with Daze and then Bolt your Arbor. Going to lose to that nuts hand regardless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

  9. #4429

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by justarandomdude View Post
    Quick question, on the play against an unknown opponent.

    Starting 7: Mox, Grove, Karakas, knight, Decay, GSZ, Punishing Fire.

    How would you start ?
    Mox + land (which one)
    only grove go or
    grove + GSZ for arbor.

    Or something else ? Greetings.

    Imo:
    Mox + land can fire backwards either way. Either playing against a creature deck or against reanimator/Show and Tell.
    Grove go maybe, but then you waste a lot of time.
    with Grove + GSZ you are semi wasting a GSZ. This results in a turn 2 knight. Probably the best choice ?
    Completely in the dark, I'm fine with Grove, Go, for a number of reasons:

    1. You save the mox in case you draw something like Maze or cycle lands so you don't "miss" a land drop T2
    2. You save the GSZ for Ooze/Teeg if you're up against a deck in which you need access to them
    3. If you don't need Ooze/Teeg, you'll have a backup KotR in 2 turns

    Playing the Mox T1 doesn't do anything. Yeah, you could EOT Decay/Fire their T1, but it's not like you have a ton going on anyway so it's not a huge deal to just do it on your turn.

  10. #4430

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I'd go with turn 1 Zenith for Arbor.

    The whole deck is full of cards that cost 1 more mana for some benefit. Pfire is shock for 1 more mana with upside, zenith is a creature for 1 more mana with upside, lili is an edict for 1 more mana with upside, decay is push for 1 more mana with upside, etc.
    We want to get into the position of taking advantage of that extra mana as fast as possible.

    One of the easiest ways to lose a game is to have the opponent have some sort of quick start and for us to fail to turn the corner because all of our cards cost 2-3 mana while the opponent's cost 1-2. These are very avoidable losses against decks that are good matchups for us. The "Grove, pass" line actually loses to something mundane like DRS+Daze+threat. Once we put ourselves on the backfoot by not having 2 mana on turn 1, its much harder to catch up to the opponent than if we were to just be ahead in the first place.

    With arbor we put ourselves in a position to win via Pfire lock, our manabase is more robust against wasteland/daze and we get to play a knight faster. the biggest downside is that we are far from casting lili (should we draw her) and we are soft to a removal-heavy hand. At the same time, this hand is rather weak to begin with; mox is not doing much for us here, we have only 1.5 threats, and not very good mana. The 2 removal spells are also potentially bad card depending on the matchup. I might actually consider a mulligan here.

  11. #4431

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I have played MKM Series Frankfurt Main Event yesterday and just wanted to give a quick report from what I remember, didn't take any notes.

    There were around 400 players (I think?) and 10 rounds of swiss (plus Top8).


    ROUND 1 STORM

    I had a Turn 1 Chalice g1 but Knight came too late after a few rounds of Arbor beats. He just stormed through. He miscounted g2 and scooped after he realized that. I lead g3 with a Thalia and Lili bringing him down to zero cards in hand. At some point he decayed Thalia and managed to topdeck his only chance to win (Cabal Ritual allowing him to flashback Past in Flames).

    Overall: 0-1


    ROUND 2 BG Depths


    He basically couldn't do anything at all, I had too many outs for his combo (Wastelands, Ghost Quarter, Knight,...).

    Overall: 1-1


    ROUND 3 Deathblade


    Those very some very interesting games. G1 a TNN killed me, I tend to lose a lot against TNNs hitting an empty board. G2 was a very close call, but I could go GQ => Ramunap => GQ, which is pretty strong against a deck with no basics. I tried to keep him low on lands, but he could resolve a TNN plus equipment. TNN stared at 2 big Knights, who have wastelanded his entire manabase in the mean-time, so he was forced to keep a blocker. Eventually the Knight were big enough to kill him in one attack I think. G3 was a lot more in my favor, I kept him on 1-2 lands the entire game and killed all his creatures, we went in the time though and I had to draw a Knight in the 3rd extra turn so I can kill him in the 5th extra turn. Knight didn't dissapoint me. :-)

    Overall: 2-1


    ROUND 4 BG Depths


    This was a LOT more interactive that the 2nd round. He misplayed g1 and lost. He had an active needle on Wasteland plus available GQ: I had a Wasteland and Decay in hand. He went for the combo, I decayed the Needle in response and wastelanded the Depths (targeted by Hexmage). He didn't realize that he just could have GQ'd my Wasteland in response of Decay. I lost quickly G2. G3 was tough as well, I tried to play very passively to not give him any window. So I kept Knight and GQ open for a long time (with Swords backup in hand). Won in the last extra turn as well. :-)

    Overall: 3-1


    ROUND 5 Grixis Delver


    G1 I lost to TNN, not much to say. In g2 he couldn't do anything, Wastelands + Tabernacle + Loam cleared his entire board and there was no way out, so he scooped. Unfortunately I had to mull to 4 on g3, so I lost... Put up a good fight though with Knight + Wastelands + Tabernacle + Maze and could have even won, if he hadn't stifled my last Knight activation.

    Overall: 3-2


    ROUND 6 Aggro Loam (Stuhl)


    I got pretty lucky and could destroy his manabase both games to a point where he couldn't do anything relevant. Sorry about that. :-(

    Overall: 4-2


    ROUND 7 Czech Pile


    G1 he just had too many cards and I had too less cards, don't remember much, but he killed me. On both g2 and g3 Thalia + land disruption (+ killing DRS) won the games. He couldn't play anything relevant.

    Overall: 5-2


    ROUND 8 Punishing Jund


    Veeery fast 2-0. Same song again... Disrupted his manabase enough with Knights/Wastelands so he just couldn't do anything at all.

    Overall: 6-2


    ROUND 9 LED Dredge


    I was lucky to topdeck Ooze on my 2nd draw (with Mox backup), so I could start exiling things as soon as T2. Eat the Bridge first and then all 3 Ichorids the turn afters. Game over. G2 I thought pretty long about my hand, but I kept it (Tabernacle and useless stuff). He kept a very bad hand and Unmasked me (Tab doesn't care about that). I topdecked and hardcast a Leyline T3 and he scooped Didn't even need Tabernacle, he had bad dredges.

    Overall: 7-2


    ROUND 10 OmniTell


    The worst matchup was reserved for the last round. :-( Lost quickly and painfully... Couldn't do much about it.

    Overall: 7-3


    I ended up on 33rd place (with an 8-2 I would have probably gotten around 15th) with a 40€ MKM voucher, which I didn't pick up because we went home after my loss as everyone said I won't get anything anyway. :-D I contacted the MKM support, maybe I will get my voucher somehow anyways.

    Despite an unlucky matchup in the last round it was a very successful day for myself. I didn't do any severe misplays and my losses were more unlucky than my fault. To be fair I had a bit of luck in my wins, too. List felt super good!

  12. #4432
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    lavafrogg's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Hey guys!

    My next legacy league starts next week and I will be playing Loam again!

    Hopefully we can get come chatter back in the thread....
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

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