Not sure but there's a good facebook group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1598499410162313/
Loam/Ice Station Zebra/Depths/Jund/GB Pox
Is there a discord for this deck?
Hello, I'm starting with this deck.
About card selection: I have found there are options to play or not to play singleton Dark Depths & Thespian Stage.
Reason for NOT to play is that if you can keep your KotR in the battlefield to tap it twice you could better try to aggro with your KotR focusing in the main wincon.
But I have seen that Marit Lage can be a very good alternative wincon since frequently is the way of closing games.
What is your opinion and experience? with or without these two cards? and if opt to include these two in the main, in which matchups do you sideboard them?
Thank you.
I've been pondering the same thing. Thespian's Stage + Dark Depths has been seeing less play outside of dedicated decks (like Turbo Depths) and I'm not sure why.
My best guess is meta related: the top two decks deal with Marit Lage pretty reliably. Miracles has StP and Terminus, so TS + DD is NEVER going to be successful there. And Grixis Control has Diabolic Edict for an immediate answer but can also block with Baleful Strix then use Jace's bounce or Lili's edict to answer Marit Lage.
That having been said, TS + DD seems highly effective against the rest of the format, so I could see it still being worthwhile.
It's not really good outside of certain fringe matchups like food chain/aluren where your opponent will 100% outvalue you the later the game goes. Imo if you're getting to untap with a knight especially now you're in a very good spot. It's better to either fetch some utility or just grow your knight and put your opponent on a clock. Same against combo, if you're untapping with a knight why would you give your opponent 2 extra turns to kill you?
The problem with including stage + depths is that the land slots are already very full. You would have to remove some combination of cabal pit, maze of ith, and/or ghost quarter to fit them in, and those lands are probably all more useful. It's very hard to fit in multiple lands that do not make any mana in a four colour deck. Plus like has already been mentioned, its very slow.
I play Depths + Stage more often than not. Part of it is that Maze and Ghost Quarter consistently underperform for me, but also the ability to threaten a Marit Lage token is huge. it lets us do this False Tempo thing where we force our opponent to defend against one gameplan, and then proceed withe other. Since Knight can tutor the combo reactively, we control when we want to force the interaction.
Plus, there are some matchups where they have no real way to beat the token. Edicts don't work unless you kill knight first, and we don't have a fetch up. Baleful Strix is not a blocker if Knight lives (fetch pit). You can even overload Miracles' interaction by presenting a second lethal threat on their end step.
That's not to say you should always play the combo, but its more nuanced than just Yes/No.
Is the 61-card maindeck w/Marchesa the current "stock" list? Trying to get the deck together for SCG Vegas and would appreciate an updated list.
Thanks!
Hello,
Where do people discuss 4c Loam nowadays? This thread seems a bit dead. Could someone link me to a place where people discuss regulary?
Thanks
I started playing Aggro Loam and was really underwhelmed, until I started looking at my lines and it was all my fault. The deck is very complicated and likes to grind out wins, I'm going to stick with it.
I've been playing basically Michael Vook's list he won the SCG with last year except with maindeck Lost Hope instead of LotV since I don't own enough, which I plan to pick up, LotV seems vital to grinding where Last Hope doesn't really do much unless the opponent is making tokens.
I started looking back at old lists and I found the winner of Ovino 10 almost 4 year old deck list almost card for card the stock list of today, except 4x Abrupt Decay.
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=10596&d=260512&f=LE
Anyways I thought it was interesting they deck seems to have reverted back after years of tinkering.
So, the new Wrenn and Six planeswalker will find a home here. How does this change the deck? Does it change it at all? What do we cut for it? And how many do we run?
Wrenn and LoV seem like a wonderful marriage. I'm thinking 2-2 split? Perhaps even 3-2 Wren-LoV. But, all these planewalkers will make this deck even more ridiculously expensive.
I am thinking of cutting Dark Confidant for this, as Wrenn gives value immediately and is in some ways more difficult to remove. What do you think?
Looks like this idea was just tried in the 7/21 Legacy Challenge (7th place):
Planeswalker (7)
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Wrenn and Six
Creature (8)
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of Autumn
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Tarmogoyf
Sorcery (3)
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate
Instant (4)
4 Abrupt Decay
Artifact (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
Enchantment (3)
3 Sylvan Library
Land (27)
1 Badlands
1 Barren Moor
1 Bayou
1 Blast Zone
1 Cabal Pit
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Prismatic Vista
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Tranquil Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Vindicate
1 Ajani Vengeant
2 Choke
1 Golgari Charm
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Plague Engineer
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
That list of lands though, haha. I didn't expect to see Prismatic Vista, I guess if you have drawn/gotten all your Basics, they just become Wrenn/Lili fodder, but they do let you get your colors around the Back to Basics around (and lesser extent Blood Moons).
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
"Aggro Loam" out here just doin' thing.
Promidnightz
Creature (14)
4 Dryad of the Ilysian Grove
4 Primeval Titan
3 Ramunap Excavator
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tireless Tracker
Sorcery (5)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
Instant (4)
4 Once Upon a Time
Artifact (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
Enchantment (2)
2 Sylvan Library
Land (27)
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Bayou
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Field of the Dead
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Collector Ouphe
1 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Mindbreak Trap
Valakut?! Playset of Dryads and Prime Times! I actually saw this list (or one similar) partly in action on a stream, from the opponent's standpoint. Also, seems this list went 8-0 in the Swiss. Spicy, spicy indeed.
Also, in 7th place, a more "Standard Issue" 4c list (no Red):
hymykuoppaorava
Planeswalker (3)
3 Oko, Thief of Crowns
Creature (12)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
Sorcery (4)
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Life from the Loam
Instant (4)
4 Abrupt Decay
Artifact (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
Enchantment (2)
2 Sylvan Library
Land (27)
1 Barren Moor
1 Bayou
1 Blast Zone
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Tranquil Thicket
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Waterlogged Grove
2 Windswept Heath
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Kunoros, Hound of Athreos
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Plague Engineer
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
havent played in ages, but i come back to this deck, its like a fine wine, i hope to see it again :)
With the strength of prismatic ending and reclaimer it seems GW depths has taken over the niche this deck used to have. What do you think loam does better or worse than GW depths?
Well, Loam has significantly higher card quality for one. Depths is more of a combo deck, this is more of a midrange/control deck.
If anything, the deck that is closest to 4c Loam in terms of gameplan is probably D&T (non-blue control deck with mana denial elements and hate)
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