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Thread: [Deck] Aggro Loam

  1. #1001
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I played it as both for a little while, and I wanted to damage to shoot Jace was basically what it came down to, and sometimes having Black was more of a problem than red.

    -Matt

  2. #1002

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Hi, I need your help: When playing against Loam, what do you think is the best moment to activate a Tormods Crypt? Well, obviously if they're tapped out, but what should I do, if they leave mana open for a cycle land?

  3. #1003

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Eventide View Post
    Hi, I need your help: When playing against Loam, what do you think is the best moment to activate a Tormods Crypt? Well, obviously if they're tapped out, but what should I do, if they leave mana open for a cycle land?
    What deck are you running?

    If you can somehow force them to cycle, you can Crypt in response to the activation, but I'm not sure how you could force an opponent to try to rescue Loam on your turn without using another piece of graveyard hate first. You can also Crypt them in response to Loam to fizzle it; they still have a Loam, but it will take some time for them to get it back up to full power.

    Can you post some examples of game states or something? Often it's difficult to snag a Loam with Crypt unless you sandbag Crypt until they tap out.

  4. #1004
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Played my Jund list today. Felt very solid. Lost some post-board matchups against RUG when I either a) drew into nothing, b) he had the quadruple Delver, Triple Mongoose Hand, c) had three Surgical Extractions.

    Overall though, it felt super awesome, and I'd definitely run it again. I think I'd being in Perish against RUG though, since more things to kill Mongeese isn't a bad thing at all.

    -Matt

  5. #1005
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I want to play this at Indy, but god-damn, I hope i don't punk out and ad-lib to something else. I have played Loam almost exclusively for so long, playing something else will just feel wrong.

    And yes, I am thinking this is the possible best removal suite at this moment:

    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Punishing Fire
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    3 Seismic Assault

    Explosives are really good against Delver decks, especially as they are taking out stifles because they are "bad cards".

  6. #1006

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    The flipped side of Delver is cmc zero, right? Seems awkward to EE that because you want your Diamonds against RUG. But I guess between Bolt, Fires, and Assault there are plenty of answers to Delver.

  7. #1007

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Yeah delver shouldn't be much of a problem. You can race delver effectively as well as just lavamancer it, bolt it, EE it unflipped or if you have a diamondless draw it's just as easy to pop it for 0. Also seismic assault. Delver doesn't seem as big an issue as you getting locked out by wasteland or some other shenanigans, overall the canadian thresh MU though is quite good for loam though since if you resolve a loam targeting 2 or more lands it's typically GG's.
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  8. #1008

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Ritual View Post
    Yeah delver shouldn't be much of a problem. You can race delver effectively as well as just lavamancer it, bolt it, EE it unflipped or if you have a diamondless draw it's just as easy to pop it for 0. Also seismic assault. Delver doesn't seem as big an issue as you getting locked out by wasteland or some other shenanigans, overall the canadian thresh MU though is quite good for loam though since if you resolve a loam targeting 2 or more lands it's typically GG's.
    It's actually kind of draw dependent, though I generally agree. Ditching Stifle actually makes it better for you because it's harder for them to hamstring you on mana for the first couple of turns. Running Lavamancer really helps, too.

    In the olden days (before Delver), my plan was usually to play conservatively for the first couple of turns, build mana, take some damage, then stabilize and Wasteland them out. They're almost 100% nonbasics, so it's not hard to destroy their mana and then ride a Crusher to victory. It's their fast hands that worry you.

  9. #1009
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    The flipped side of Delver is cmc zero, right? Seems awkward to EE that because you want your Diamonds against RUG. But I guess between Bolt, Fires, and Assault there are plenty of answers to Delver.
    Yeah, it is zero. I was mostly referring as an out to the stupid Mongoose. But it is too bad it can't hit both the flipped Delver and the Mongoose.

    We shall see.

  10. #1010

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Yeah, typically their manabase is all trop's and volc's so wasteland locking them is pretty easy and if you get the wastelock going before they lay down a threat you're going to be heavily favored to win the game. And if one of your big threats resolves namely crusher and sticks around for a turn you're likely going to win if crusher grows at all and hits a good spell other than mox diamond. Just don't get blown out by stifle in the early game and you'll probably win the attrition war.
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  11. #1011
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    If you've got the removal, keep them off Volcs if you can tie up the board with big dudes so they can't burn you out. Then, just land Assault and destroy them.

    EE at 1 is your best bet, since it's your only real way of interacting with Goose.

    Remember, REB out of the board is an effective answer for Delver, if you have to.

    My removal suite:

    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    4 Terminate
    3 Seismic Assault

    It is a bit less than what you've got going on, but to be fair, Sylvan Library is also the tits. I don't really mind cutting the slower removal (Fires is great, but slow and isn't the best against Maverick or anything) for the EE.

    What's your current list with the Liliana, Raz?

    -Matt

  12. #1012

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    You don't run Bolts, Matt? Do you have Chalices or are you just skipping the 1cc slot?

  13. #1013
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Matt, this is the latest right now:


    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Tarmogoyf
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Liliana of the Veil (NOOOOOOOOOOO!)

    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Seismic Assault
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Punishing Fire
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sylvan Library

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Wasteland
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Badlands
    2 Grove of the Burnwillows
    2 Taiga
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Forgotten Cave
    2 Tranquil Thicket
    2 Mountain
    1 Bayou
    1 Forest
    1 Barbarian Ring / Volrath's Stronghold

    I was looking at Terminate too, but I think Bolt is straight-up more solid. The rest seems very similar.

    Also, the sideboard will be crucial for Indy, I think, more than anything. I think that it has to start like this:

    4 REB/Pyro

    Beyond that something like:

    4 Leyline of the Void/Surgical
    3 Devastating Dreams
    2 Krosan Grip
    2 Kitchen Finks?

    I think burn is a pretty strong deck, and you generally cannot win or race it. Dreams is pretty fun against them. Block creatures, even with confidant, burn the others, try to keep your life up, and Devastating Dreams at 2 or 3. Dreams is so good, it's our one weapon against burn or combo or whatever :D

  14. #1014

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Wait, no Crusher? Interesting.

    Zuran Orb is probably a bit better than Kitchen Finks versus burn. A three mana three-power guy doesn't really pressure them much, is too slow to block, and I don't know how often you will get the full four life off of it. Assuming a Mox-less draw, it will come down right around the time they are getting close to killing you, and they can just not attack into it (or try to alpha around it) if they don't want you to gain another two life.

    Orb is vulnerable to artifact hate and lifegain hate, sure, but it's great versus PoP and will generally slow them down a bit until they find a way to mitigate it.

  15. #1015
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Tony suggested using only Crushers. I don't know. I just think that the lower CMC is better. It's really up in the air. I wish I had space for them all. I might have to cut down on the hate.

    Finks was a bad idea, it was more me thinking. What else could go in there? Noxious Revivals seem sort of eh, but they are good. Or can be, I don't know what to side them in against.

    I honestly wouldn't mind putting in 2 Ancient Grudges either. More Affinity/other random crap hate. Put that and forget about burn, since I doubt we can swing that match in our favor too much.

  16. #1016

    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    If you don't use Leyline of the Void, you don't need the full four graveyard hate slots. 2-3 Surgical is probably fine. Leyline is one of those really iffy cards whose potential upside has always masked its real mediocrity; you might dreamcrush Dredge players with it, but you can dreamcrush Dredge players with a combination of Oozes, Extractions, and Dreams, so...

    I would probably wait to construct a sideboard until you get to the event. I don't know if there will be any last-chance grinders for byes, but if there are and you can scout them, that will help. I think a reasonable start on a board will be this:

    2 REB
    2 Pyroblast (or however you want to split it)
    3 Surgical
    3 Dreams
    2 Grip
    3 Flex

    With options for the flex slots consisting of Ancient Grudge, Noxious Revival, Zuran Orb, Shattering Spree, Virtue's Ruin, Perish, and/or Thoughtseize. There might be some other niche cards I'm not thinking of, but that list looks like it covers most of what you could want for those last few slots.

  17. #1017
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Well, i have 3 byes, so I am only getting to indy friday night. I doubt I can scout.

    I have played a few dredges with 3 extirpate/surgicals, and it didn't go too well. Leyline seems more solid. It just seems that all I do is cut down on the number of bad match-ups.

    4 Leylines, 3 Dreams, 2 Oozes and maybe Explosives/Pulse/Luck should be enough for burn. :P

    I might end up with 2 Lili MD and 1 SB. I really like that card :)

  18. #1018
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by razvan View Post
    Well, i have 3 byes, so I am only getting to indy friday night. I doubt I can scout.

    I have played a few dredges with 3 extirpate/surgicals, and it didn't go too well. Leyline seems more solid. It just seems that all I do is cut down on the number of bad match-ups.

    4 Leylines, 3 Dreams, 2 Oozes and maybe Explosives/Pulse/Luck should be enough for burn. :P

    I might end up with 2 Lili MD and 1 SB. I really like that card :)
    I also agree with running some number of Crusher/Terravore in the deck. I'm running 3 Crusher and 1 Terravore which can be brought back with Stronghold. Other than that I think you have a lot of burn in your md and I would cut pfires if you aren't running chalice. They are a bit slow and mana intensive compared to bolts but are awesome if you have a chalice at 1.


    On the note of Zuran Orb I'm not sure how effective it would be as I doubt the burn player would expect it game 2 but in game 3 they would have access to Smash to Smithereens.

  19. #1019
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    I'm not running Bolts, and instead running Terminates. I really don't like Knights, and the removal quality of Terminate is unparalleled in the colours we're running. I mean, I run into Knights and big Goyfs in my meta all day, so I *can't* run Bolt and get there. I use my Assault instead to take out the small guys if need be.

    I think Terravore is REALLY good now. Most people aren't running whole-graveyard removal, they're running Surgical. I ran it out against Delver and they scooped, but it was a 6/6 on turn 2, so I'm not surprised.

    "Wherever I may Loam"

    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Taiga
    2 Badlands
    1 Bayou
    2 Mountain
    1 Forest
    3 Wasteland
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Barbarian Ring
    3 Tranquil Thicket
    3 Forgotten Cave

    3 Countryside Crusher
    3 Tarmogoyf
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    4 Dark Confidant
    1 Terravore

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Life from the Loam
    3 Seismic Assault
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Sylvan Library
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Noxious Revival

    ----

    First of all, my old list compared to this one was:

    -1 Barbarian Ring
    -1 Taiga
    -1 Noxious Revival
    -2 Engineered Explosives
    -2 Scavenging Ooze

    +2 Punishing Fires
    +3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    +1 Goyf
    +1 Entomb

    I like Fires combo, but I've found the EE's to be much better. Obviously running both is better, but I'm running a few more creatures. Goyf has still been superb, and the Oozes have been pretty good so far. Terravore is always amazing when I hit it, and the 1-of Revival: the tits.

    I'm also wondering why y'all haven't run Sylvan Library yet. Maybe lack of space? Digging is so important in this deck, and Dredging more for free is great. Try it!

    My board is something like:

    3 REB
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Krosan Grip
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Noxious Revival
    2 Virtue's Ruin
    1 Perish

    Surgical and REB come in against Combo, as does Revival if need be. Ruin and Perish come in against Maverick. Grudge, REB, and Grip against Stoneblade.

    All in all, it's been super fun. Ideally, I'd be playing 1-2 Liliana and 3 Bolts in addition to what I'm running, but I have 0 slots. Sleeve up my list and give it a try. It's pretty decent, thusfar.

    -Matt

  20. #1020
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    Re: [Deck] Aggro Loam

    Tested again about 20 games RUG vs. Aggro Loam with that decklist, and again it seems hopeless pre-board. Either I have a damn good RUG list or I have the worst luck ever.

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