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Thread: How balanced is this card?

  1. #1
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
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    How balanced is this card?

    Alright, me and a couple of buddies came out with this card and were planning to use it in our cube draft.

    Bloodline Cutter

    Creature - Vampire Shaman

    ~ has flying as long as an opponent has 10 or less life.

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, that player skips his/her next draw phase.

    1/1
    What do you think should be the rarity of this card?

    Is the card broken or jank?

    Would this card be playable in Legacy if a functional version saw print?

    Thanks


    EDIT:

    With realizing how broken the card is, I tried fixing it using posted existing cards below as guidelines

    Heres some other ideas

    Bloodline Coagulator

    Creature - Vampire Shaman

    Pay 5 life: Exile ~. Any player may activate this ability but only during his/her turn.

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may discard your hand. If you do, that player skips his/her draw phase.

    2/2
    or

    Bloodline Cutter

    Creature - Vampire Shaman

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may discard your hand. If you do, that player skips his/her next draw phase.

    0/1

    One of the things that I've change is add the 'you may discard your hand' drawback. On top of it, there is another drawback hoping it would balance its brokeness.


    Edit 2.0

    I actually like what Malchar proposed.

    theres the 3.0 Version:

    Bloodline Cutter

    Creature - Vampire Shaman

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, if that player has 10 or less life that player skips his/her next draw phase.

    1/1
    Its has the Zendikar weenie Vampire flavor. That same flavor prevents the card from being broken. It still can lock opponents late game but it will can only lock an opponent if you are winning anyways. Agree?
    Last edited by (nameless one); 02-23-2010 at 04:19 PM.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  2. #2

    Re: How balanced is this card?

    It looks fundamentally unfun. If they don't have an immediate answer to it, they'll never be able to get an answer to it. Yeah, they can block him or kill him as a 1/1, but that doesn't make his effect very interesting. If your opponent has a slight hiccup, he locks them out of the game. A card that either does nothing or is unbeatable seems lame.

    For instance, what happens if your opponent leads with Rit, Thoughtseize (taking your cheap removal spell or blocker), this guy? If you're not holding a second removal spell or enough land in your hand to cast your more expensive answers, the game is already over.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Being a 1C 2/1 with an ability isn't enough to make a card good by default. Elvish Archer is to First Striking as Dark Confidant is to card draw, and Nezumi Graverobber is to robbing graves as Tarmogoyf is to being much much better than a 2/1, but what the fuck does that even mean?

  3. #3
    Legacy Inept

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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    It's not balanced at all. It should have a strong drawback such as "if this leaves play, discard your hand".

  4. #4
    Good against CMC 2
    Sevryn's Avatar
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Attacking the draw step is very much on the brutal side of Magic, and 1 mana is too cheap for such an effect (and one-sided, at that). Possessed Portal costs 8 mana, and hits both players' draw steps.

    Suggestion:

    Bloodline Cutter

    Creature - Vampire Shaman

    ~ has flying as long as an opponent has 10 or less life.

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, put a blood counter on ~.

    If an opponent would draw a card besides the first one drawn in their draw step, you may remove a blood counter from ~. If you do, that player skips that draw instead.

    1/1
    Kind of wall-of-text, but it has the same flavor without being a 1 mana lock-out. Turns it into a cheap way to fight cantrips, which seems what the power level of a 1 mana black creature should be (especially since it can eventually fly). Unless you aren't concerned about power level, in which case you can have it make them skip their draw step AND untap step. Fun stuff.


    EDIT: this could of course be made more powerful by getting 2 blood counters instead of 1, or by allowing non-combat damage to trigger it, or even by adding life loss onto the skipped draw.
    "If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him.
    If he is in superior strength, evade him.
    If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him.
    Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
    If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
    If his forces are united, separate them.
    Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."

    -Sun Tzu

  5. #5
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    This card is broken as fuck, and retardedly unfun to play against, since it can literally win the game on turn 1 (if your opponent doesn't have an answer).

    Secondly: There's no good answer to this card. It only costs 1. The cheapest removal in the format is 1. Even if you swords it immediately, the player running this missed out on nothing.

    If you can't swords it immediately (like: you don't have an answer at all), then you lose. If you have to wait to answer it (like a blocker), your opponent just 2:1'd you with a card that only costs B.


    The card is more or less a Hypnotic Specter that costs 1, except this one doesn't even let your opponent draw into an answer and is insane off the top as well (whereas a Hypnotic Specter doesn't do much in a topdeck war).

    Or he's a Goblin Lackey for B that doesn't require you to play Goblins or have a good Goblin. I dunno, there's no analog, because Wizards never did something dumb like print "U for a 1/1, when it deals combat damage to a player, draw a card." But this card is better than that.


    If this card cost 1B it would see a lot of play in every format, and probably see lots of play in Legacy (although there aren't good black creature decks now, this card would be around as good as Bob -- tougher conditions, but no life loss). Costing just B it would fundamentally alter the way that Magic is played for the worse.

    Unless your cube has like Black Lotus every third pack and people are just going for the combo kill anyway, this card is way too broken.

  6. #6
    The Courage Wolf
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    This card is insanely overpowered. You might as well have written "Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, take another turn", because your opponent needs to have:
    a) a cheap removal spell in hand
    b) countered it
    c) a blocker with the hopes you have no removal

    If they cant draw cards, they can't effectively play their decks to potentially counteract this creature.

    This card would see play in every format if printed. I think Hand/Land Hate decks would cream themselves since it makes their disruption a hell of a lot more potent.

    I think that Forbiddian's U for a 1/1 Curiousity Creature is vastly more fair, but still way overpowered. What were you guys thinking?

  7. #7
    is the freaking Zoo-ru!
    Loxodon Baileyarch's Avatar
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    So it's Yata-Garasu?

    Idk if anyone gets this reference.
    Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
    -Robocop-

  8. #8
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Would it be balanced if it costed or to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maveric78f View Post
    It's not balanced at all. It should have a strong drawback such as "if this leaves play, discard your hand".
    Maybe this:

    Bloodline Cutter

    Creature- Vampire Shaman

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player you may discard a card from your hand. If you do, that player skips his/her next draw phase.

    2/2
    What about now?
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  9. #9
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    There is no way this will be balanced with the words

    "Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player you may discard a card from your hand. If you do, that player skips his/her next draw phase. "

    on it, unless it's a 6 or 7 mana guy (at Mythic) with no evasion. That effect is FAR too powerful to be printed any other way. Consider the fact that there are exactly three cards in existence that say your opponent skips their draw step:

    Possessed Portal
    Fatespinner
    Fatigue


    One is 8 mana and symmetrical.
    One is a creature that gives them the option to not skip the draw.
    One is a one-shot effect.

    This gives you some insight into how overpowered this ability is. It's a one card prison deck, a-la Zur's Weirding, which simultaneously has no drawback and wins the game.

  10. #10
    Don't ping the hydra
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Consider these as a source of inspiration and game balance:
    Volrath's Dungeon
    Necropotence
    Lethal Vapors
    Maralen of the Mornsong
    Chains of Mephistopheles

  11. #11
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    I updated the OP and added more drawback ideas.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  12. #12

    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Game Balance
    ....
    Necropotence
    ....
    Necropotence? Really? Of all of the cards in magic, you pick that to be in the top 5 for balanced?
    BZK! - Storm Boards

    Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
    Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.

  13. #13
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Go back to the original wording (other others are way too clunky, especially the one for BBB), but make it so the opponent draws three (or some other number) when ~ leaves play. The "punishment" should fit the crime.

    Bloodline Cutter :B:
    Creature - Vampire Rogue
    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, that player skips his or her next draw step.
    When ~ leaves play, each opponent may draw three cards.
    1/1

  14. #14
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malchar View Post
    Go back to the original wording (other others are way too clunky, especially the one for BBB), but make it so the opponent draws three (or some other number) when ~ leaves play. The "punishment" should fit the crime.

    Bloodline Cutter :B:
    Creature - Vampire Rogue
    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, that player skips his or her next draw step.
    When ~ leaves play, each opponent may draw three cards.
    1/1
    The thing that was mentioned above though is that once its online, its a one-card prison.

    The drawback that you mentioned above does not really matter because once its online, theres nothing you can do about it.

    On version 2.1, I added the "pay 5 life" drawback so that the opponent can deal with it without having anything (given that he/she has more than 5 life). It also costed more than the original to cast.

    On version 2.2, I turned it into a 0/1 so your opponent could actually buy time while you are trying to set it up to attack. The 0/1 clause also makes its attack conditional.

    Not to mentioned that you have to discard your hand to activate it.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  15. #15
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malchar View Post
    Go back to the original wording (other others are way too clunky, especially the one for BBB), but make it so the opponent draws three (or some other number) when ~ leaves play. The "punishment" should fit the crime.

    Bloodline Cutter :B:
    Creature - Vampire Rogue
    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, that player skips his or her next draw step.
    When ~ leaves play, each opponent may draw three cards.
    1/1
    This doesn't FIX anything, though. It still says:

    " - if your opponent doesn't have an answer in hand right now, or next turn, they never get a chance to draw one. You win the game."

  16. #16
    Cabal Therapist
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Bloodline Cutter

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may sacrifice ~. If you do, that player skips his next draw step.

    1/1

    ------------------------

    Bloodline Cutter

    ~ has Intimidate as long as an opponent has 10 or less life.

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may sacrifice a creature. If you do, that player skips his next draw step.

    2/1

    Or if you want something more like the original post...

    Bloodline Cutter

    Flying

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, you may pay 3 life. If you do, that player skips his next draw step.

    3/4
    Quote Originally Posted by Skeggi View Post
    How would Nitewolf have said this?... P_R went over the line. But it was about naming cats. Also, Anus Mittens is a good name for a cat.
    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    "Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."

    Sure as hell sounds like fun.

  17. #17
    Rapin' your villages, Burnin' your women
    Jeff Kruchkow's Avatar
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch View Post
    So it's Yata-Garasu?

    Idk if anyone gets this reference.
    I do.
    And forcing your opponent to skip draws needs to ba attached to something with a huge cc or an even more massive drawback. The fact is locking your opponentout of draws on the first few turns is essentially gg.

  18. #18

    Re: How balanced is this card?

    That card is absurd.

  19. #19
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    Re: How balanced is this card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    This doesn't FIX anything, though. It still says:

    " - if your opponent doesn't have an answer in hand right now, or next turn, they never get a chance to draw one. You win the game."
    It's merely the same as how Goblin Lackey works right now. A deck should be able to answer (or at least block) a 1/1 with their opening 7. In fact, Lackey needs to be answered in only one turn. With this vampire, you don't even need to answer it right away (i.e. you can wait a turn, get hit once, and then play the goyf from your hand to block it next turn.) Besides, if you hose the card too much then it's no fun. If this is for cube, then shouldn't it be as powerful as any other legacy/vintage staple?

    Edit: Also, it definitely needs to be a Rogue.

  20. #20

    Re: How balanced is this card?

    I guess Tarmogoyf should be included in the "answers for the next turn" department.

    I'd try something in the lines of this:

    Bloodline Cutter

    Creature - Vampire Shaman

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, if that player has 10 or less life, he or she skips his or her next draw step.

    1/1
    Bloodline Cutter

    Creature - Vampire Shaman

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may put a blood counter on ~. If you do, that player skips his or her next draw step.

    At the beginning of your upkeep, each opponent who has skipped his or her last draw step looks at the top X cards of his or her library, where X is the number of blood counters on ~, then puts one of them into his or her hand and the rest on the bottom of his or her library in any order.

    1/1

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